Points next?

[Chris623]

My tractor has been sitting for 6 months waiting for me to heal well enough from a motorcycle accident to install the hydraulic pump and pour in the fluid. During that period, I kept the battery charged up. When I went to start it about 12 days ago after the pump fiasco, it wouldn't start. That's not normal for this 8N. Normally kicks right off.........or at least on the second try. I've been trying it off and on every other day or so. Have gone so far as to run down the battery twice and had to put it back on the charger. Drained the carburetor of fuel.......which has been successful in the past. I'm wondering if the points are burned..........like maybe I left the start switch on????? Not an engine guy, so don't really know where to start. In this situation, would you start with the distributor? Or would it make more sense to pull the plugs one at a time and check for spark while turning over the engine?

 

[HFJ]

i'd recommend using an adjustable gap spark tester. to be strong enough to work in the compression of the cylinders, your spark needs to be able to jump a quarter inch gap in the open air. seeing it jump the gap of the plug itself doesn't necessarily mean it's strong enough.

 

[HFJ]

of course, if u test a pulled plug and there's NO spark...

 

[Abbby]

Does you tractor have a front mount or side mount distributor?

 

[Chris623]

Don't have..........or know what an adjustable gap spark tester is.

HFJ, I've never seen that tool before, so don't know it's purpose.

Abby, I know "where" it is..........just don't know if that's a front mounted or side mounted and can't find a picture of it's location in the old shop manual.

As I've said, I'm not a tractor guy........know little to nothing about engines.

 

[Leroy]

If you don't know if a front mount or side mount distributor you will never
find the points as they are in the distributor. Get different manuals and
read them before you try doing anything. A good manual will show where the
different distribators are located.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 10:20:29 08/11/23) Don't have..........or know what an adjustable gap spark tester is.

HFJ, I've never seen that tool before, so don't know it's purpose.

it's an adjustable gap spark tester. you turn the screw until the gap is what you want - in this case, a quarter inch. plug wire goes on the round end, clip attaches to tractor block/frame for ground. you can get one at an auto parts store or online.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 10:20:29 08/11/23)

Abby, I know "where" it is..........just don't know if that's a front mounted or side mounted and can't find a picture of it's location in the old shop manual.

front mount only has 4 wires coming from the cap, to the plugs. side mount also has a fifth wire that connects distributor to coil.

front mount looks like a space alien crab, side mount looks like a distributor from a car.

 

[Chris623]

I know WHERE it is, just don't know what that position is called. I've adjusted the points and replaced the points for the past 24 years.

https://chris623.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p2305121507-3.jpg

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 11:26:12 08/11/23)
I know WHERE it is, just don't know what that position is called. I've adjusted the points and replaced the points for the past 24 years.

https://chris623.zenfolio.com/img/s/v-10/p2305121507-3.jpg

side mount

 

[Chris623]

Thanks. I'll try and remember that.

 

[Abbby]

Side mount so easy to clean the points. Just take a thin piece of carbboard like a business card and pull thru the points a couple times. Examine at this point to see if any pitting. If you do not have a spark gap checker take an old plug and open the gap up to a little less than a 1/4". So large gap compared to a plug you would run. Then see if the spark will jump the gap. If it does that means you have a strong spark that should spark inside the engine. If not then get back to us. If you have changed points before then seems like you know this stuff.

 

[Chris623]

Well Abbby, I know [i:924e91c40c]some[/i:924e91c40c] of it, but I'm no mechanic. My old neighbor up the street who rebuilt tractors all his life was the one to bail me out when I ran into a problem I couldn't solve. Unfortunately, God Rest his soul, passed away a little over a year ago and I've lost my mentor. So I thank you for your patience with my lack of knowledge.

I've got to go to a meeting with the surgeon this morning and I'll have to deal with this later on this afternoon.

 

[Chris623]

Checked the points today and they seemed to be set correctly. A friend mentioned I might have a problem with the coil. How can I test to see if the coil is good?

 

[Eman85]

Did you test for spark with a spark tester?

 

[lastcowboy32]

spark tester... 10 bucks, maybe 15...

No replacement for the good times with your old friend. But a lot of his wisdom probably came from using one a few times.

Will diagnose the coil. Will diagnose a bad plug wire. Will diagnose a lot of stuff.

Worth the price.

Seen it mentioned twice. I give it a third vote.

I got by with my 2N for a couple years without one. Then bought a Ford 3000 with a side distributor...the guy I bought it from, it stalled when he showed it to me. He literally went to a tool box, grabbed a 10" coarse file and ran it through the points, saying... they probably just need a little cleaning...it didn't start again. I still bought it, because it had good oil pressure and ran smoothly, until the mystery stall...but I knew it would need new points. I mean... why not just take your 9" milwaukee angle grinder to them?

Anyway...that tractor had all sorts of mystery ignition issues that a spark tester helped me clear up. At that point, I wondered why I didn't have one before.

 

[Chris623]

(quoted from post at 11:09:56 08/18/23) Did you test for spark with a spark tester?

No I didn't. Don't have one of those. Is there another way to do that?

 

[Chris623]

Okay, I just ordered one. Will be here tomorrow. I have to work all day tomorrow at my teaching job so that will work out just fine. I'll try and use it Sunday after church. Will I need to attached it to each individual spark plug wire or is one enough to confirm if the coil is sending enough juice or not?

This post was edited by Chris623 on 08/18/2023 at 01:48 pm.

 

[lastcowboy32]

(quoted from post at 13:46:14 08/18/23) Okay, I just ordered one. Will be here tomorrow. I have to work all day tomorrow at my teaching job so that will work out just fine. I'll try and use it Sunday after church. Will I need to attached it to each individual spark plug wire or is one enough to confirm if the coil is sending enough juice or not?

This post was edited by Chris623 on 08/18/2023 at 01:48 pm.

Thats the beauty of it. It can test the spark between the coil and distributor...and it can test the spark between the distributor and the plugs.

Start at where the coils output wire connects to the distributor input (top center of the distributor)

Disconnect that wire from the top of the distributor...plug that into your spark tester... clip your spark tester to the block somewhere... try to start the tractor. You should see sparks. at the tester, if your coil is good.

My suggestion is to start with the gap at maybe 1/8" or even smaller. If you get any spark, increase to the 1/4" and re-test.

Using a small gap gives you the best chance of seeing something, so you get a little confidence in your new handy-dandy tester.

Get your feet wet, before you go and try to get an exact measurement.

Other suggestion is, it's nice to have a partner to sit on the seat and crank the engine for you, so you can concentrate on the tester. Just remember to keep hands off while cranking...otherwise you'll get a nasty jolt.


Then...if you have a good, 1/4" spark with your tester connected at the coil output wire's input to the distributor ...plug your coil output wire back into the distributor... and then you can test the spark plug wires individually by pulling them from one plug at a time and connecting them to the tester.


If you don't have spark at the coil wire...then troubleshoot the other direction... go from where you are testing back towards the coil itself.

If your tester has a ground cable on it, you can maybe plug it into the top of the coil itself...and retest...if you get spark, you have a bad coil output wire.

If no spark there...

put down your spark tester and go back to the coil input, make sure it has voltage when you turn on the key. You can check that with a multimeter...it may not be full battery voltage during cranking, (if you try to crank) because the points create momentary short circuits to ground (by design)...so the voltage at the top of your coil may average out to something less than battery voltage during cranking. If you see a common sense DC level at the coil input... and no spark at the coil output...sanity check your grounds and such...if your sanity check pans out... then you probably have a bad coil.

If no voltage at the coil input when your key is on...trace that wire back towards the key switch with the multimeter.

So...spark tester tests from the coil output through the distributor to the plugs.

multimeter is your friend from the coil input back towards the key.

One way or another, you will isolate your problem.

 

[Chris623]

Thanks lastcowboy32. Very thorough and helpful. I should be able to get there now. Anxious to find my problem.