rrlund
Well-known Member
You mean that fuse up there that flips down? That's the property of the power company and you can get in BIG and I mean BIG trouble if you monkey with that. Trip it down yourself and see how long it is before the power company comes out and resets it. Before I got my generator,mine tripped in a thunderstorm. There were lines down and they were working on those. I needed that fuse flipped back up so I could milk. When I threatened to use a long 2x4 and put it back in myself,I got threats over the phone from a power company rep like you can't believe.
All you have to do anyway is turn off the main breaker in the top of your entrance box. Use a cord with two male ends to plug in to your system at a welder or dryer outlet.
All you have to do anyway is turn off the main breaker in the top of your entrance box. Use a cord with two male ends to plug in to your system at a welder or dryer outlet.
I have to strongly recommend NOT TO DO THAT.
For one thing, there may be somewhere in the neighborhood of 7200 or 9600 or even higher voltage up there and the utilitys have special high resistance super insulated tools and clothing and other protective gear to perform such functions, not sure a person wants to go reaching around up there with their own makeshift apparatus !!!!!!!!!!! It only takes like 50 milliamps to possibly cause the old ticker to defibrillate (or should that be fibrillate???) or get "out of time or sync" and you can dieeeeeeeeeee, so at 7200 or more volts you realy sure you wanna be messin around up there????????
Also the utility really frowns on uneducated uninformed non employeee lay persons messing around with THEIR equipmet ya know.
Also, if you dont have your service disconnected like the meter base or your panels main etc etc that 120 or 240 volts can still get someone killed....
Transfer switches and other approved lock out devices are what I recommend when you wanna fire up your home emergeny generator
Yall keep safe now
John T
For one thing, there may be somewhere in the neighborhood of 7200 or 9600 or even higher voltage up there and the utilitys have special high resistance super insulated tools and clothing and other protective gear to perform such functions, not sure a person wants to go reaching around up there with their own makeshift apparatus !!!!!!!!!!! It only takes like 50 milliamps to possibly cause the old ticker to defibrillate (or should that be fibrillate???) or get "out of time or sync" and you can dieeeeeeeeeee, so at 7200 or more volts you realy sure you wanna be messin around up there????????
Also the utility really frowns on uneducated uninformed non employeee lay persons messing around with THEIR equipmet ya know.
Also, if you dont have your service disconnected like the meter base or your panels main etc etc that 120 or 240 volts can still get someone killed....
Transfer switches and other approved lock out devices are what I recommend when you wanna fire up your home emergeny generator
Yall keep safe now
John T
I wouldn't do that! Yes, it would probably work, but if someone happened to flip on the main breaker it would energize the downed lines, possibly doing damage to the generator, and at worst, maybe frying someone trying to fix the power lines.
Not wanting to spend the money for a real transfer switch, I added a second 100amp rated "emergency" panel, with breakers for some of the light circuits, the kitchen refrigerator, the freezers, the furnace and the well pump. That panel is energized from a large breaker in the main panel, which is connected to a range receptacle. I have a 4 conductor range cord to the emergency panel that is usually plugged into the range receptacle and the main breaker box. But I also have a second range receptacle that is wired to my generator wiring outside. In order to use the generator, I have to physically move the range plug to the second receptacle. That way there is no possibility of energizing the power lines, or for that matter the rest of the house. Besides disconnecting from the "hot" lines, it also disconnects from the power company's neutral line. The emergency box has its own ground, to buried metal water pipe which grounds the generator when it is in use. I think I have about $150 in this system. Would it pass inspection? I think so, but I have never had it inspected. I think it is as safe as anything could be.
I tried to find a 200 amp capable duplex knife switch, but what I found was much more expensive than what I ended up doing or a regular transfer switch.
I think that a person would be in an incredible amount of trouble if what they did caused the death or bad injury of a lineman. If not prison, then the lawsuit resulting from the incident would probably ruin a person for the rest of their life.
Much better to be safe than sorry later. Good luck!
Not wanting to spend the money for a real transfer switch, I added a second 100amp rated "emergency" panel, with breakers for some of the light circuits, the kitchen refrigerator, the freezers, the furnace and the well pump. That panel is energized from a large breaker in the main panel, which is connected to a range receptacle. I have a 4 conductor range cord to the emergency panel that is usually plugged into the range receptacle and the main breaker box. But I also have a second range receptacle that is wired to my generator wiring outside. In order to use the generator, I have to physically move the range plug to the second receptacle. That way there is no possibility of energizing the power lines, or for that matter the rest of the house. Besides disconnecting from the "hot" lines, it also disconnects from the power company's neutral line. The emergency box has its own ground, to buried metal water pipe which grounds the generator when it is in use. I think I have about $150 in this system. Would it pass inspection? I think so, but I have never had it inspected. I think it is as safe as anything could be.
I tried to find a 200 amp capable duplex knife switch, but what I found was much more expensive than what I ended up doing or a regular transfer switch.
I think that a person would be in an incredible amount of trouble if what they did caused the death or bad injury of a lineman. If not prison, then the lawsuit resulting from the incident would probably ruin a person for the rest of their life.
Much better to be safe than sorry later. Good luck!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
What you are talking about is what our REA requires for a gen hookup. Proper term is probably what John T calls it- a transfer switch. Impossible to backfeed gen electricity into power lines. Also involves a small box at the base of the pole which contains the three wires to plug into the gen output. It is not the cheapest setup but it does protect the linemen.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Where have you been? We have discussed the errors of back feeding with a double male plug extensively.
There are people who think " if it works, it must be right". Not so.
I can wire your entire place with porcelain fence insulations and barbed wire. Everything will work, right down to the three way switches on the stairs. Is the "barb wire" connection job right?
For some reason because you can't see electricty. Most people figure if there is no smoke, flame or arc, everything is fine.
Then again looking around at some messy farms and businesses with cob jobs everywhere. It doesn’t seem to bother the owners at all that everything is a jerry rigged, half baked mess of cob jobs.
Connecting to the three prong 240 welder plug and trying to operate 120/240 loads is even worse than back feeding a four pin stove plug.
I wouldn't leave alone with children either b.t.w.
There are people who think " if it works, it must be right". Not so.
I can wire your entire place with porcelain fence insulations and barbed wire. Everything will work, right down to the three way switches on the stairs. Is the "barb wire" connection job right?
For some reason because you can't see electricty. Most people figure if there is no smoke, flame or arc, everything is fine.
Then again looking around at some messy farms and businesses with cob jobs everywhere. It doesn’t seem to bother the owners at all that everything is a jerry rigged, half baked mess of cob jobs.
Connecting to the three prong 240 welder plug and trying to operate 120/240 loads is even worse than back feeding a four pin stove plug.
I wouldn't leave alone with children either b.t.w.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The transfer switch protects you and your family too.
I just did a job like that and it passed inspection. Not fence wire - but it is exposed 120 VAC wiring with old "knob and tube" wiring methods.
Not in someone's house however, it's in a museum farmhouse that gets travel from the public.
Here in New York, exposed knob and tube wiring is still allowed to be used in resdential if it's pre-existing - it gets grandfathered in. Not much different than the fence wire on insultors - just inside instead of outside.
Not in someone's house however, it's in a museum farmhouse that gets travel from the public.
Here in New York, exposed knob and tube wiring is still allowed to be used in resdential if it's pre-existing - it gets grandfathered in. Not much different than the fence wire on insultors - just inside instead of outside.
The only time that is practical is if you have and/or your power company allows donut metering. Not very many utilities allow that type of metering.
With a normal central distribution pole, your main wires are at the meter anyway why not put the transfer switch there where it's easy to get to and service.
Dusty
With a normal central distribution pole, your main wires are at the meter anyway why not put the transfer switch there where it's easy to get to and service.
Dusty
Stan in Oly, WA
Well-known Member
Hi jdemaris,
25 to 35 years ago when I was buying and renovating old houses in Seattle, I frequently encountered knob and tube wiring. I don't remember ever seeing an installation of that type of wiring that wasn't well done. I decided that it must have been because it was more complicated than any type of residential wiring that followed it, and that was enough to discourage homeowners and amateurs from trying to do it themselves. I certainly saw nightmarish examples of every other type of wiring.
All the best, Stan
25 to 35 years ago when I was buying and renovating old houses in Seattle, I frequently encountered knob and tube wiring. I don't remember ever seeing an installation of that type of wiring that wasn't well done. I decided that it must have been because it was more complicated than any type of residential wiring that followed it, and that was enough to discourage homeowners and amateurs from trying to do it themselves. I certainly saw nightmarish examples of every other type of wiring.
All the best, Stan
huntingreen2day
Member
I like the idea of the pole type transfer switch. I have CT metered service to my shop and house from the same pole. I do not have a disconnect on either building other than the main panels and I have (2) 200 amp panels on the house. The pole disconnect would work great for me. No problems with the high voltage that john T is talking about. I would just get the utility co to drop the jack out while I was doing the installation. I have installed the transfer switch before that has the meter socket in it. It does not break the neutral. before I installed it I got approval from the local utility.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
That is what 90% of the farmers have in our area, safe to all.
But like everything else there can be problems. Often the electrician forgets that he isn't the only thing that gets up in the air. I have found probably fourty in the past fourty years that could not work because -----ALL--holes were not plugged, and sparrows think that is the best place to build a nest. The over throw switch can't make contact with the nest in the way. Easy fix if I'm on the farm with the basket truck-no ice storm etc. I always leave the bottom holes with just a tiny hole so moisture could drip out if they take on moisture. I make it a habit to drum up more work when the basket truck is on the farm by looking the pole tops over with binoculars. Farmers are doubtfull sometimes, but when you show them the nest hanging out of the pole top. Well lets just say they don't question how much it will cost to swing up and fix it.
Sparrows can often get through where the wires enter, so that gets calk as well.
If you don't exercise them for ten years, they can get a little corrosion in the contact area. That isn't the problem, rather when you pull on the (conduit) handle the linkage stretches just a tiny bit so the generator contacts don't snap totaly down hard.
I personaly had issues with one on my house (in town) four foot off the ground. I even asked the electrictian to order me a new spring. I had dropped a chunk of copper in to make do till I got a new spring. He just redrilled the conduit used for the handle rod. Here,problem was caused by the ice from deep snow that probably froze etc. Well it had moved the handle just enough to make the generator contacts off a hair.
I have probably three times got called out during a power outage because the generator had blown all the lights out. Two times it was the same electrician marking the wrong wire for the ground wire. That makes a mess in only a few seconds, especialy when you get into electronic stuff, and dairy farms.
But like everything else there can be problems. Often the electrician forgets that he isn't the only thing that gets up in the air. I have found probably fourty in the past fourty years that could not work because -----ALL--holes were not plugged, and sparrows think that is the best place to build a nest. The over throw switch can't make contact with the nest in the way. Easy fix if I'm on the farm with the basket truck-no ice storm etc. I always leave the bottom holes with just a tiny hole so moisture could drip out if they take on moisture. I make it a habit to drum up more work when the basket truck is on the farm by looking the pole tops over with binoculars. Farmers are doubtfull sometimes, but when you show them the nest hanging out of the pole top. Well lets just say they don't question how much it will cost to swing up and fix it.
Sparrows can often get through where the wires enter, so that gets calk as well.
If you don't exercise them for ten years, they can get a little corrosion in the contact area. That isn't the problem, rather when you pull on the (conduit) handle the linkage stretches just a tiny bit so the generator contacts don't snap totaly down hard.
I personaly had issues with one on my house (in town) four foot off the ground. I even asked the electrictian to order me a new spring. I had dropped a chunk of copper in to make do till I got a new spring. He just redrilled the conduit used for the handle rod. Here,problem was caused by the ice from deep snow that probably froze etc. Well it had moved the handle just enough to make the generator contacts off a hair.
I have probably three times got called out during a power outage because the generator had blown all the lights out. Two times it was the same electrician marking the wrong wire for the ground wire. That makes a mess in only a few seconds, especialy when you get into electronic stuff, and dairy farms.
jerry well
New User
I work for American Electric Power in Ohio. Unless you're an experienced lineman call your utility company.
This summer we had an experienced "A" Lineman who momentarily lost concentration and grounded 7200 volts thru his upper body and both arms. He now has one arm off at the shoulder and a 5" stub on the other arm. He currently is trying to heal up enough for the fitting of prostetics
He lived, but............!
Please leave this hi voltage alone.......your family will thank you for it!!
This summer we had an experienced "A" Lineman who momentarily lost concentration and grounded 7200 volts thru his upper body and both arms. He now has one arm off at the shoulder and a 5" stub on the other arm. He currently is trying to heal up enough for the fitting of prostetics
He lived, but............!
Please leave this hi voltage alone.......your family will thank you for it!!
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