power and cold air

[blinko]

Hi,
Has anyone heard or tryied using "dry ice" in the air cleaner. I was told that pulling cold air in to the carb will give more power. Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Christopher S.]

Cold air is denser, so it should give you more power

 

[MASSEY/AC]

Dry Ice is solid co2 when it warms it off gases co2 that will displace o2 oxygen. For this to work it would have to be seperated from the intake air. Dad had a drag car he used ice to run the gass line thru like a worm on a stil.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Just purchase the pre filter like dirt track runs around their air filter . Soak it in nitro freeze it then pull it out of the freezer /cooler and put it on before you make the pass.

 

[PopinJohn]

Massey may be right about the dry ice/co2.
That said, what I remember is that fuel temperature and air temperature don't have a significant effect on horsepower until the heat index is higher than about 90 degrees F.

 

[whig]

My buddy has a drag car and packs all around the fuel cell with ice , Makes a big diffrence.Faster time and speed.

 

[gtx1967jewison]

cooling the fuel is doable & may or may not have measurable effects at the dyno. But you cant effectively cool that HUGE volume of air your gonna burn up going down the track. not even ONE degree, i guarantee. not with anything short of powered refrigeration on a large scale.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 13:47:27 02/13/11) Just purchase the pre filter like dirt track runs around their air filter . Soak it in nitro freeze it then pull it out of the freezer /cooler and put it on before you make the pass.

Oh well I guess that went right over some heads.

 

[Anonymous-0]

About, well when I was a boy, our M pulled 3-14's in 2 gear in gumbo, after dark when the air cooled she would handle it easly in 3rd gear with fire coming out the muffler. That was something I will alway remeber. The old girl sure injoyed cool and damp air.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 18:00:58 02/13/11) About, well when I was a boy, our M pulled 3-14's in 2 gear in gumbo, after dark when the air cooled she would handle it easly in 3rd gear with fire coming out the muffler. That was something I will alway remeber. The old girl sure injoyed cool and damp air.

Every Engine is affected by Barometric Pressure . The Thawing of Freezing Nitro adds oxygen to the air supply and gets around oxygenated fuel checks.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 18:38:44 02/13/11)

(quoted from post at 18:00:58 02/13/11) About, well when I was a boy, our M pulled 3-14's in 2 gear in gumbo, after dark when the air cooled she would handle it easly in 3rd gear with fire coming out the muffler. That was something I will alway remeber. The old girl sure injoyed cool and damp air.

Every Engine is affected by Barometric Pressure . The Thawing of Freezing Nitro adds oxygen to the air supply and gets around oxygenated fuel checks.

Air density %=1.73686 X uncorrected barometer/absolute temperature. Everyone should do this formula to know the amount of air they have to use at each track.

 

[VicS]

I haven't put a thermometer in there, but the after cooler on my M11 Cummins is hot on the turbo side, and cool on the other side. Go put your hands on one and see. There is a big temp difference even idling. On Diesel pulling tractors they pack them in ice. It must make more than 1 degree diffrence.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I have heard of Drag racers doing this. At least the guys that run the Super Stock classes with the little motors.

 

[gtx1967jewison]

right but that is a huge intercooler using a huge fan huge surface area to cool the large volume of HEATED air. how is this gonna work on a non-turbo pulling tractor? It will not cool the air below the ambient temperature. it will literally do nothing, even if you have ten intercoolers in a row for the engine to suck through it cannot cool below the outside air temp.

 

[gtx1967jewison]

are you referring to nitromethane? I was not aware it could be
frozen? sounds interesting-

 

[John 37A]

My brother-in-law runs 2 air-to-water intercoolers on his Pro Stock Diesel truck. It will melt 60 lbs of ice during a pass, turning it to WARM water and cools the air a great deal. Of course, air temps can be several hundred degrees before intercooling and any temp change on a NA motor won't be nearly as drastic. I would think that pulling air through some sort of a ice water mix would help some.

 

[Mopower]

Cold air is more dense. When temperature increases, the molecules "push" away from one another. i.e. less oxygen per given unit of space. Cooling the air or compressing the air is one way to "fit" more oxygen in to combustion. I can't help but think fuel temperature and properties can play a minor role here too. Take a look at propane.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 21:13:03 02/13/11) are you referring to nitromethane? I was not aware it could be
frozen? sounds interesting-

-20F

 

[EFV]

Dry ice has a surface temperature of -109 degrees

Fahrenheit, methanol has a freezes at -143 degrees

Fahrenheit. So spraying methanol chilled by dry ice

into intake would cool it enough to make a

difference. If memory serves,every ten degree F.

drop in incoming air temperature is one percent

power potential.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 15:22:22 02/14/11) Dry ice has a surface temperature of -109 degrees

Fahrenheit, methanol has a freezes at -143 degrees

Fahrenheit. So spraying methanol chilled by dry ice

into intake would cool it enough to make a

difference. If memory serves,every ten degree F.

drop in incoming air temperature is one percent

power potential.

ethanol when used as a fuel by its volume cools the intake charge as well as lowers the entire engine temperature. A wet NOS system does also . Propane needs heat to keep the mixer from freezing etc.

 

[Mike Bock]

you may not be able to cool the air much ,but you can keep it from getting hot with out braking any rules

 

[gtx1967jewison]

anyone know if e-85 has much of a cooling effect? Most of the guys competing in the car craft chassis dyno nationals that place are using it for fuel including the winners. well over 1000hp

 

[LW]

Never seen a propane mixer freeze, Regualtor's freeze because of rapid expansion. They just regualte the pressure, the mixer can be as cold as possible and should be. Thats why propane manifolds are not heated.

 

[north puller]

To convert ethanol from a liquid to a gas requires more btu's of heat than gasoline. To burn properly, the fuel mixture must be richer with ethanol also. So you have more fuel than gas absorbing more heat than gas resulting in colder intake temps and frosty frozen carbs.

Methanol uses more heat than ethanol and needs to be richer than ethanol and has even more of a cooling effect.

When cycling from hotter combustion temps to colder intake charges experienced when burning methanol, make sure your pistons can handle it.

 

[VicS]

Even the venturi on your carb cools the air several degrees. Put your hand on a Ford 5.4 intake manifold, mine is plastic. and it will be cool to the touch, not 195 like the rest of the engine. Their engineers were paying attention. It takes me a while for a comeback, LOL Vic

 

[CavalierPulling55]

[/quote]

What units are you using in this formula? and How are you getting pressure at the track site??

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 10:43:04 02/15/11)

Air density %=1.73686 X uncorrected barometer/absolute temperature. Everyone should do this formula to know the amount of air they have to use at each track.[/quote]39.95 Weather station .temperature is F . Barometer is in inches of mercury most barometers are corrected. So rule of thumb from kinsler fuel injection to uncorrected them you need to know the elevation and reduce reading by 1 inch of mercury for every 1000 feet of elevation. Absolute temperature is actual temp added to a value of 459.67. hope this helps

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 15:17:19 02/15/11)

(quoted from post at 10:43:04 02/15/11)

Air density %=1.73686 X uncorrected barometer/absolute temperature. Everyone should do this formula to know the amount of air they have to use at each track.

What units are you using in this formula? and How are you getting pressure at the track site??[/quote]hmm I expected a comment or a offer to write a article on this . Oh well maybe a article on using a candle and a fish bowl would intrigue some. Does the same thing just doesn't involve mathmatics and gives good indication of fuel rate to sustain a good burn.

 

[wi50]

flow test the carb, hook a manometer to the fuel jet and take readings through different jets, (or settings). Then you can figure what jet (or setting) to use for what atmospheric conditions.

The trick is to hook the manometer line to a typical tractor carb fuel jet. On a typical Holley carb it's pretty easy to hook up.



Our rules are pretty loose, and sometimes really no rules at all. I had ran some NOS in a wet setup in the WC and was expermenting with it before I took a leave from pulling it. I had some K type nozzles in the intake.

 

[wi50]

I'd alwayse take a look up at the exhaust a time or two on every run mid track to see how things were burning, not that a visual is verry accurate but it gave me an idea. I never did adjust much on the carb, maybe if it was a cool night I may open the fuel jet a bit but it never mattered, best policy was to just leave things alone.

 

[CavalierPulling55]

So how exactly does the manometer work? How do you know when you get it to help with tuning the carb??

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 10:17:50 02/16/11) I'd alwayse take a look up at the exhaust a time or two on every run mid track to see how things were burning, not that a visual is verry accurate but it gave me an idea. I never did adjust much on the carb, maybe if it was a cool night I may open the fuel jet a bit but it never mattered, best policy was to just leave things alone.

How much difference in elevation was the tracks that you pull at vs the garage you tune and dyno at?

 

[wi50]

For as long as it takes some of you fellas to get from one end of a track to the other, you should worry if the beer will still be cold when you get there.

Here in the midwest, from northern Ia to northern Wi, to central Mn, it's all about the same elevation, 1100-1400 feet. Our other rule of thumb is that after 6 minutes in a cooler, the beer is as cold as it's going to get, so you'd best hurry up before it's your turn to buy. Leinenkugels is also known as laughingiggles, the more you drink, the number your face gets untill you can do nothing other than smile. Shine and home made wine are also some pretty good fuel as long as used in copius quantities, generally 1 gulp to 16.7, breaths of air or for Leinies use 14.7 breaths. THings like Busch, Miller, Michelobe and any out of state beer though, you can run pretty rich and never flood.