Problem Starting 8N

[CMorris]

1952 8N S/M Dist. Still having problems getting the old girl to run. I have now confirmed that the electrical system is in good working condition and have recently re-set the timing. Now my problem is getting the fuel to fire and and turn the engine over. I have gone to the extreme of putting starting fluid in the cylinders, installing new plugs and wires, distr cap, rotor etc.... When I depress the starter the engine cranks evenly, although when I pull the choke the engine has a hard time turning over. Almost like the battery is dying. It also sounds like the starter motor is not functioning properly and causes the positive terminal on the battery to heat up. Once the starter fluid and fuel is out of the cylinder the engine will crank normally again but not start. Please help. I tried to jump start in 2nd gear but the wheels just locked and tore up my yard.

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 23:14:27 05/08/09) 1952 8N S/M Dist. Still having problems getting the old girl to run. I have now confirmed that the electrical system is in good working condition and have recently re-set the timing. Now my problem is getting the fuel to fire and and turn the engine over. I have gone to the extreme of putting starting fluid in the cylinders, installing new plugs and wires, distr cap, rotor etc.... When I depress the starter the engine cranks evenly, although when I pull the choke the engine has a hard time turning over. Almost like the battery is dying. It also sounds like the starter motor is not functioning properly and causes the positive terminal on the battery to heat up. Once the starter fluid and fuel is out of the cylinder the engine will crank normally again but not start. Please help. I tried to jump start in 2nd gear but the wheels just locked and tore up my yard.

Well, just my WAG.

But from what you are saying, about the cables heating, that sounds a lot like bad cables.

Restance/corrosion, causes electrical heat.

See this topic.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=474685

The starting fluid kinda concerns me as to a timing issue, but don't hold me to that, just from yer description, and what you are giving me to work with.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Make sure you have a FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK. Make sure the the timing and the firing order are correct.

 

[JMOR]

If a connection point gets hot, it IS a bad connection point! Clean it!
You always pull start it highest possible gear.........2nd ain't it.

 

[CMorris]

Dunk:

With regard to timing here's what I did. Started by gaping points to 0.25 at highest point on cam. Removed plug #1 and felt for the first sign of outward pressure. Set the flywheel to 4 degrees. Adjusted the points to where they were just starting to open. Tightend nut on housing. Reinistalled Distributor cap with rotor facing the #1 cyclinder. Checked for spark on the engine block. Spark was blue and jumped about 1/4 inch. Check for current on the battery side of coil-good. Checked on distributor side-good. Checked at side of distributor-good. Assume that spark is making it to cylinder.

Tried to start engine. No good. Pulled out the choke. Starter struggles to turn. Positive terminal on battery get hot enough to smoke.

Tonight i have removed the battery and cleaned up both posts nice and shinny with emory
cloth. Going to NAPA tommorow to pick up (+) & (-) cables #0. Also have new Starter solenoid to install and new custom plug wires. Am I doing something wrong in timing the engine?

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 01:28:55 05/09/09) Dunk:

With regard to timing here's what I did. Started by gaping points to 0.25 at highest point on cam. Removed plug #1 and felt for the first sign of outward pressure. Set the flywheel to 4 degrees. Adjusted the points to where they were just starting to open. Tightend nut on housing. Reinistalled Distributor cap with rotor facing the #1 cyclinder. Checked for spark on the engine block. Spark was blue and jumped about 1/4 inch. Check for current on the battery side of coil-good. Checked on distributor side-good. Checked at side of distributor-good. Assume that spark is making it to cylinder.

Tried to start engine. No good. Pulled out the choke. Starter struggles to turn. Positive terminal on battery get hot enough to smoke.

Tonight i have removed the battery and cleaned up both posts nice and shinny with emory
cloth. Going to NAPA tommorow to pick up (+) & (-) cables #0. Also have new Starter solenoid to install and new custom plug wires. Am I doing something wrong in timing the engine?

You have a thing or two in the bottom of that distributor that "could" affect the timing, if there was a problem with them, the centrifugal advance and weights.

Set it back to 0, and try it.

Or you could check them.

I am about too drunk to hang with you right now.

SouNd guy says to just wait for him in the AM, cause I shouldn't be here, drunk like I am.

 

[CMorris]

Thank you. see you in the morning. Also,
Distributor unit is brand new out of box 1 week
ago.

CM

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 01:50:18 05/09/09) Thank you. see you in the morning. Also,
Distributor unit is brand new out of box 1 week
ago.

CM

If you have gassed yer spark plugs with the choke it won't start.

 

[CMorris]

Put in brand new Champion H-12's yesterday. NG Although, when i pulled them earlier today they were a little wet. Someone told me to put a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder and i cant seem to get it out. Any suggestions? Also, I dosed the carb and cylinder with starter fluid, NG. Also, tore apart the carb and cleaned it out with light HCl and blew out the ports clean. Re-assemled and checked float height at 1/4in. All jets and pins were clean.

 

[CMorris]

Yanked the battery and polished up the posts with
emory cloth, picking up new barided cables in the
AM from NAPA. Current ones look nasty. Thanks for
the help.

 

[CMorris]

Jerry:

Spark on the block from each cylider looks blue and jumps about 1/4 inch no problem. I think that I'm setting the timing correct, see message back to Dunk above. Firing order set as 1-2-4-3. Thanks for your help.

 

[Anonymous-0]

You may have gas fouled plugs.Make sure the spark jumps the plug gap.It will run up the insulator on gas fouled insulators.Soak plugs in a covered jar of lacquer thinner.My tractor wouldnt run on H10s,fouled often,Autolite 216s fixed that problem.437s would have been better.

 

[CMorris]

I'll give it a try. Thanks for the tip.

 

[teddy52food]

Retard the timing a little more. I think you have it advanced. That is why it is turning slower when you use the choke. It is firing against the starter.

 

[Tominnebr]

From your description of how you set the timing I believe you have it wrong. You said "as soon as I felt pressure" you set it at 4 degrees. You must have the piston at Top Dead Center on the compression stroke and then set it at 4 degrees. To me it sounds like the piston was just beginning its upward stroke and not at TDC.

 

[JerryMT]

This may be semantics but the spark should be bluish-white the color of lightning.
With regards to timing, to get on the compression stroke you'll feel some high pressure as the piston starts up because both valves are closed. Remember on the exhaust stroke there is a slight pressure to force the gas out of the cylinder with the exhaust valve open. I'm not trying to be picky but your tractor won't start and it's usually something simple that ends up being the problem.

 

[Bob Harvey]

Didn't know you drank, until we seen ya sober !! grin

 

[CMorris]

What i found was that my distributor was 180 degrees out. Once i advanced my flywheel and re-set the distributor, she fired right up. Thanks for the help.

 

[CMorris]

J-MT:

It was something simple. I just needed to rotate my flywheel 180 degrees. Now she fires right up.

 

[CMorris]

Dunk:

Your suspicion was correct. I was 180
degrees out. Once i advanced the flywheel. I back
in 8N heaven. Thanks for all your help. If your
in Bangor, PA stop in for a yeungling lager.