PTO Operation questions

[john in la]

You should be able to push the clutch halfway down and the tractor will stop. Pushing it all the way down and the tractor and PTO will stop.

We can also date the tractor by the date codes.
Look on the left front of the motor just above the oil pan. You will see some numbers and letters on a plate with a screw in the middle. Post that information.




Also look on each rear axle trumpet about half way between the rear chunk and the wheel. You will see a raised spot with numbers and letters. Post that information.

There are many other date codes but that will get you started.

 

[LachineMI]

You should be able to push the clutch halfway down and the tractor will stop. Pushing it all the way down and the tractor and PTO will stop.

I thought I should be able to. Hopefully we can find a way to make this happen.

We can also date the tractor by the date codes.
Look on the left front of the motor just above the oil pan. You will see some numbers and letters on a plate with a screw in the middle. Post that information.

This should solve the engine ID problem. It was covered in 60 years of oil and grime.

I have not yet found any ID on the rear axles.

 

[LachineMI]

I will add that I can see why some say this is a 1963 2000 because the serial number looks to be 15020. That fits a 1963.
But the 63 is blue and buff.
Your tractor is red and buff and that fits the 61 and 62 light industrial tractors.

I have heard of people painting their red tractor blue to make it look more modern but I have never seen anyone paint their blue tractor red to make it look older.

That is why I assume I am reading the serial number on the tag wrong.

I think you read that serial number correctly. I never gave a second look to the tag under the hood, I was looking at the transmission number...but the hood and the engine match, so that is something!

 

[LachineMI]

Also look on each rear axle trumpet about half way between the rear chunk and the wheel. You will see a raised spot with numbers and letters. Post that information.

There are many other date codes but that will get you started.

I was looking inside the fenders and found nothing that looked useful. Outside the fenders were these numbers:

Thank you for all your patience while I muddle through the learning process.

 

[shaun wallace]

1960 engineering on axle hsg, Has power unit engine . Look on top tank of rad, have NDA xxxx and a date raised on it. Does it have rectangular hole below steering wheel.

 

[Sean in PA]

I think you read that serial number correctly. I never gave a second look to the tag under the hood, I was looking at the transmission number...but the hood and the engine match, so that is something!

No, the engine is a 172 CI engine, but it is an industrial engine that was originally in some other piece of equipment that was not a tractor, like a wood chipper or generator, or an irrigation pump. The engines installed in tractors at the factory didn't have those ID plates on them. Only the industrial engines had those.

 

[john in la]

This is looking more and more like a one piece at a time tractor.
What is weird is the 172 cu in industrial motor that would never come in a 2000 tractor (wrong size) has the same serial number 15020-K6KH stamped into it as the 2000 industrial tag someone put on the hood.
Then it has a 1955 transmission out of a 800 tractor with curved up foot rest that did not come on the 1955 tractors.
To top it off the rear end looks to be from the newer 1960 era 801 or 4000 tractor.
In fact the only thing 2000 light industrial tractor on this whole thing is looking to be the tin and solid front axle.

This is what a date code from a radiator looks like.



This is what the rear axle trumpet date code looks like.



And this is what the rear end chunk date code looks like.

 

[redoakroach]

Love the information and the feedback. I am very happy that the tractor should be able to do everything I need it to (light mowing, keeping the 1/2 mile gravel driveway smooth, and blowing snow in the winter. I am not going to restore it (but may hit it with some de-greaser...)

I agree the parts on the frankenford don't seem to all match! Should make getting parts more interesting.

How do I tell if the engine is from the 2000 or an 860?

What does the rear lever on the transmission do? Mine is not hooked to anything and moves freely, but I do see pictures of 860s with something attached to it.View attachment 131693

This is not my tractor, but is labeled as an 800/860 by the OP and something appears to be hooked to this.View attachment 131695View attachment 131694

Anyhow, my original question remains.... Should I be able to push in the clutch and have the PTO stop? Do I care of it doesn't?

Thanks for all the great information. Very helpful and interesting.

I have an 860 with the 5 speed and the PTO does stop spinning when the clutch pedal is all the way down.
Larry

 

[Sean in PA]

What is weird is the 172 cu in industrial motor that would never come in a 2000 tractor (wrong size) has the same serial number 15020-K6KH stamped into it as the 2000 industrial tag someone put on the hood.

The sticker on the hood has the name of what looks like a Ford tractor dealership in Michigan. A Google search shows that dealership is now called Don's Tractor & Equipment, and it is currently a New Holland dealership. It is at the same address as the original Alpena Tractor and Supply Inc. I am guessing that the dealership swapped the engine and added that sticker when they did so.

 

[LachineMI]

1960 engineering on axle hsg, Has power unit engine . Look on top tank of rad, have NDA xxxx and a date raised on it. Does it have rectangular hole below steering wheel.

No hole below the steering wheel. I snapped a pic of the radiator but it was nearly impossible to make out the numbers. I will wait for the rain to go before trying again.

This is looking more and more like a one piece at a time tractor.
What is weird is the 172 cu in industrial motor that would never come in a 2000 tractor (wrong size) has the same serial number 15020-K6KH stamped into it as the 2000 industrial tag someone put on the hood.
Then it has a 1955 transmission out of a 800 tractor with curved up foot rest that did not come on the 1955 tractors.
To top it off the rear end looks to be from the newer 1960 era 801 or 4000 tractor.
In fact the only thing 2000 light industrial tractor on this whole thing is looking to be the tin and solid front axle.

Thanks John. I will look for those codes when the weather clears. Is this reminding anyone else of a Johnny Cash song?

The sticker on the hood has the name of what looks like a Ford tractor dealership in Michigan. A Google search shows that dealership is now called Don's Tractor & Equipment, and it is currently a New Holland dealership. It is at the same address as the original Alpena Tractor and Supply Inc. I am guessing that the dealership swapped the engine and added that sticker when they did so.

I live about five miles from Don's and have bought parts from their. Never knew it was the same place (doh).

Spoke with the family that I bought this from today and they said the Dad had it serviced at Don's and "they knew the tractor when he called". I will stop in there today after work. I did not intend this to be a treasure hunt for tractor history, but it is a good way to make friends and tell stories.

Thanks all.

Not sure I included this picture before, but it had a "heater cab" on it made of tarps which did not survive the trip to my house. I still have the metal framework for it.

The tractor is at least pre-78. Family says that it was owned by the road commission, which may explain the engine swap.

 

[Destroked 450]

One very common problem with those tractors when not used for a period of time the pto clutch disc would stick to the flywheel and not release

 

[LachineMI]

One very common problem with those tractors when not used for a period of time the pto clutch disc would stick to the flywheel and not release

Is there a common solution?

 

[Btzj02]

Is there a common solution?

With that Frankenford you have is it mechanically possible that the two stage clutch is no longer in there?

 

[LachineMI]

With that Frankenford you have is it mechanically possible that the two stage clutch is no longer in there?

At this point, I think anything is possible. I did find a thread on another forum where a member had an 860 with a single stage clutch. He was looking for a seal to put it back together. Posted pictures of the clutch and stopped all the scoffers....

Is this a problem for me if it does not have it when I operate a snow blower or a brush hog? Again, new to tractors and don't want to find out the hard way why farmers/tractors do things a certain way.

A couple of pictures for those who have asked:

 

[pomester]

No hole below the steering wheel. I snapped a pic of the radiator but it was nearly impossible to make out the numbers. I will wait for the rain to go before trying again.
View attachment 131817

Thanks John. I will look for those codes when the weather clears. Is this reminding anyone else of a Johnny Cash song?

I live about five miles from Don's and have bought parts from their. Never knew it was the same place (doh).

Spoke with the family that I bought this from today and they said the Dad had it serviced at Don's and "they knew the tractor when he called". I will stop in there today after work. I did not intend this to be a treasure hunt for tractor history, but it is a good way to make friends and tell stories.

Thanks all.

Not sure I included this picture before, but it had a "heater cab" on it made of tarps which did not survive the trip to my house. I still have the metal framework for it.

View attachment 131818View attachment 131819 The tractor is at least pre-78. Family says that it was owned by the road commission, which may explain the engine swap.

View attachment 131816

The right side panel of the hood assembly has the hole for the SOS pto handle. All the hoods after a certain date had that feature, I'm not certain what that date is, I'll bet someone here knows tho.

 

[Btzj02]

Not having a two stage clutch is no problem. An ORC is all you would need for a rotary mower. But, you definitely want the PTO to disengage along with the transmission when the clutch is pressed.

 

[Sean in PA]

The tractor is at least pre-78.

pre-1965. They stopped making the 4 cylinder 2000/4000 series at the end of the 1964 model year and switched to the new 3 cylinder models for the 1965 model year. They did continue to make the 4 cylinder models after that, but those were to fill fleet orders that were ordered previously for a large number of tractors to be delivered over many years. They even made the 4 cylinder 2000 offset model in small batches off-and-on until the 1710 offset came out due to the demand for a small offset tractor.

 

[Keith Williams]

With that Frankenford you have is it mechanically possible that the two stage clutch is no longer in there?

Then the PTO would stop when the clutch is pressed and the tractor stops. From the facts given, it is a two stage, just froze up.
IMHO
Keith

 

[LachineMI]

Then the PTO would stop when the clutch is pressed and the tractor stops. From the facts given, it is a two stage, just froze up.
IMHO
Keith

So... just use the PTO and hope it breaks loose, or split the tractor? I don't have the tools to remove the loader, split the tractor and replace the clutch myself, so will that cost more than FrankenFord is worth?

 

[john in la]

That is a rear end that was cast in November 1960 probably originally installed in a 1961 tractor. That makes it from the 801 era.

That radiator is not standard tractor installation. My have come with the motor from the industrial setting or was replaced over the years.

The only thing that matches on this tractor is the hood and rear wheel fenders both came off a light industrial tractor.

Like I said before hook the brush cutter to the tractor with the transmission in neutral. Get the cutter up to speed then push the clutch all the way down and try and bring the motor to idle. The cutter driving the clutch disc from the back and the motor hooked to the pressure plate from the front trying to move at different speeds is usually enough to break them apart when the pressure plate is in the released position.
In fact it may break apart just having the cutter hooked to the PTO the clutch down and the starter trying to turn the flywheel.

This may or may not work but it is worth a try because that clutch is more than expensive to replace.

Yes a ORC adapter will prevent the cutter from pushing the tractor but constant starting the tractor with the cutter engaged is going to wear heavy on the starter if the clutch is not fixed.