Re: Creeper Gear Offset Farmalls

[hardscrabble]

Looks almost like a 140 Hi-Clear with the wrong wheels. Either that, or a 140 with a Hi-Clear front axle.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Interesting that somebody hasnt seen one of them somewhere and had some comment about it. The subject has come up many times. The GINSING tractors using a B in WISC had a reduction set-up in the rear part of the bell housing but i have never been able to find out anything on the subject. It had a shaft with lever going back near the pto lever. They used one of the holes beneath the gas tank where levers for a cult would mount the owner didnt know what kind of reduction it had.

 

[Haas]

That is a very interesting tractor. I've never seen a setup like that. The extra gearbox in there is such that the front of the tractor is raised up. So the front end was replaced with what looks like a high clear axle to compensate so the tractor is still level. I wonder if the gear box is a custom made deal, or was such available aftermarket. Also wonder if it just slows everyting down, or is it a two speed. I don't see any shifter lever. Considering the unusual equipment and the apparent good condition, seems like $2275 was a cheap price.

 

[Hugh MacKay]

Jim: How much more than you stated do you know about this gear box. I can see it has to have what looks like a high clear front axle, that being determined by the drive line step up created by the creeper gear box.

The problem as I see it, and I know of at least 3 other creeper gear boxes, that reduce speeds between transmission and clutch. We have been made aware of the gear box conversion for Auburn Trencher, which takes an external pto from the gear box under the platform, however K-Mo has never came back and told us if it is 540 pto.

The 2 speed optional gear box from a 404 will also do the same as this gear box, although it may require the torque tube from a 404. About 4 years ago there was a guy posted a photo of a cylinder type device he took out of a Super A. It fits right in the torque tube and gives two speeds. Now, we have this one described as a creeper in between transmission and torque tube. Unless I can be convinced otherwise, there is one major problem with all three of these, that being they all reduce PTO speed in Creeper Gear. Basically all non useful items in my book, since the mid 1930s 540 PTO is a standard we we live by.

Then we have Hydra Creeper with which renders the PTO non usable during it's operation.

I posted the photo of what turned out to be a Ray Bock Equipment Creeper Gear. Although a couple of folks were able to identify, one of them even knowing of an operating Bock gear box on a 140. He has yet to come back and tell us more, and believe me I did ask more in a personal e mail.

I get just a we bit out of sorts, folks keep posting these devices, yet they never complete the REST OF THE STORY. I guess we'll have to give it to Paul Harvey. Better still I may just build my own gear box, however it will be a completely redesigned torque tube giving creeper and fully Independant PTO.

 

[Robbie6]

Morning Hugh

Maybe you should build 2 - I want one for my Super A when I am going to use it to pull my (yet to be built!) one row garlic planter when I finally get settled in Nova Scotia.

I find my Super A is geared a bit high and I don't think the wife could drop the garlic cloves that fast. Her solution is that she will drive the tractor and I will ride the planter!

Seriously, I think I am going to try to find something that will slow down the SA while giving me enough rpm to pull up some of the slopes on the north mountain in "The Valley".

Regards
Robert Lorencz

 

[Hugh MacKay]

Robert: Ah-ha using a new handle, I wondered what ever became of you. E mail me and I'll give you the secret on a good creeper. You could build a treadmill, using belt pulley for drive end, remove the seat, and let your wife steer from the moving treadmill. She may encounter some difficulty on the North Mountain. Not sure which would be worse climbing or holding back. I suppose you could equip her with turbo and engine brakes. There you go, another place I would not dare stop to visit in eastern Ontario.

Not so seriously, you may encounter the same problems as Angus, a guy in my hometown. His boys and a few friends getting out of the military after WW#2 built Angus a 6 cylinder, 4x4, tractor using military hardware. the thing weighed about 4 ton. Angus hitched the new tractor to his wagon and loose hay loader. Angus's wife Edith had always driven the horses loading hay, thus it was gettyup and whoa. Angus only bothered to tell Edith about the clutch, throttle and gear shift. At the crest of a hill, Angus yelled whoa, Edith shoved in clutch and away they went, reaching speeds of close to 20 mph, hay loader burried near burried Angus until it exploded. Angus was quite sore with the boys about his wrecked hayloader.

Just sometimes these ventures just don't work with husband and wife.

 

[Steven f/AZ]

After a couple good wars, I gave up on having the Mrs. help out in the field. I did manage to teach her how to run the lawn mower, but was expecting last summer so did not want to bounce around... and I suppose this coming summer she will just want to spend time with our little girl.

Anyway, maybe someday I can get my daughter to work with me in the field. :wink:

 

[Jim Becker]

Hugh, all I know about the 140 in the pictures is what the pictures show. I don't recall ever seeing a gearbox like that. If it hadn't been 500 miles away, I would have probably gone to take a look at it.

Do you recall my once describing a 2-speed that was used in the 140s with a mounted grape picker? I never did get a good look at one of them either but wonder if this is the same gearbox. I think most of the grape picker stuff was driven by hydraulics. They may not have needed the PTO.

Likewise with this tractor. If the experimantal farm needed a slow tractor for some row crop stuff, they may have not normally needed the PTO.

 

[Patrick Martin]

Why dont you just reduce the size of the wheels/tires? That slows it down too.

 

[Hugh MacKay]

Patrick: I put larger wheels and tires on there for two reasons and I'm not willing to give up crop clearence or floatation. Even if I went small tires it wouldn't give the creeper speed I want. I want less than 1/2 mile per hour at full throttle.

 

[Hugh MacKay]

Jim: It's probably quite true that most applications for a creeper gear in these tractors, the pto was a non issue. Most folks in my area used the Hydra Creeper drive and most of that was for transplanting.

Size of operations soon made the need for creepers in a offset Farmall obselete. Many of those same farms still have their SA, 100, 130 or 140 and it's mainly cultivating duty only. Most soon went for larger tractors on multi row trans planters and harvesters.

My interest in the past 15 years has been a reduction gear that will give me 540 rpm on pto. I grow a few baking potatoes in wide rows (48"). Increasing the hill size gives me a lot higher percentage of those long oval potatoes. Sized those do command a premiun price. This is not big volume, thus another tractor is not and option. I'd like to use a transplanter unit for dropping my seed but most of all I need a slower gear for my 1 row PTO digger.

 

[Lucas0522]

This post is quite old but hey if there's still someone wanting information I'm willing to help. I'm currently working on a Super AV with a Ray Bock creeper gear. Right now the transmission is disassembled, so I can't tell you about speeds. But I can tell you about the mechanics and provide pictures(if I can get them to upload).
Here's some info for people looking in the future, given that I may not notice or respond:
The tractor must be in neutral and the pto and creeper engaged. The creeper button engages the pto shaft, and the pto lever slides the lower reduction gear(IH 351060R1) into place.
Power comes in through the pto shaft, then goes through two gear reductions(using IH gears for the gear reduction: 351059R1 & 351060R1), then out a beveled pinion gear(49298D) that meshes with the differential.
It doesn't appear that the pto can be used without engaging the creeper. A simple but affective device that appears to use all IH components, except the housing obviously.

 

[Jim Becker]

I'm interested. I'd like to see pictures of the insides and any more details you can provide.

 

[gene bender]

There was a kit that went on the driveshaft front of the input shaft in the bellhousing used for the Gensing crops in Wisc. Linkage came out of a boss on left side and lever mounted rite buy the shift lever also had a site glass showing oil level. Tractor is near Mt Pleasant,Ia and can be seen at old threshers I have never got to talk with owner but its there each yr.

 

[Eason]

Down here in NC there was a creeper attachment that ran off of the front crankshaft pulley of the engine. It ran under the platform to the pto shaft. The clutch had to be disengaged for it to work.

 

[Lucas0522]

Here are some pictures, not the best quality. I also have a video on how everything moves.
I also made a mistake with my previous description. The bottom on the rear engages the pto, and the lever on the side engages the creeper gear. Thus the 540 pto can run separate of the creeper.

 

[Lucas0522]

I would also like to add that it takes 2.5 turns of the pto input shaft to get 1 rotation of the pto(making it a 540 pto by my calculations), and 5 turns to get 1 turn of the lower bevel gear. With the transmission in first gear it takes 3/4 of a revolution of the trans input shaft,which revolves at the same speed as the pto input shaft, to get 1 revolution of the transmissions lower bevel gear.