Re Stimulus Package reply from me

[Dave from MN]

"I cant see fuel going down untill Ethanol goes away, the war ends, or Rosie Odonnel goes straight."
Ok, The war on terrorism is gonna go on for a long time, I believe, Iraq is gonna be going on for a long time as well,( I am assuming), Do you really think Rosie will ever go straight????NOT, and Ethanol isnt going to go away. Gas isnt gonna go down for quite some time, that was basically my statement.

I wasnt trying to sound smart or throwing out "idiot statment". I know the Ethanol push is good for the crop farmers, Heck I am one of them now and have many friends that are as well. I dont know what I think of the subsidy/ethanol issue because I dont know enough about it. I DO KNOW, that the need for corn to make ethanol is really hurting the meat producers. $6 corn is great for the crop farmer, but what is is doing to the livestock farmer? His beef was worth $.88-$92 pound for a finished steer on $2.50 corn, now that steer is still only bring $.88-$.93, but the feed has doubled in cost if he is buying it. There is some inbalance here. All you corn growers out there, if your friend came up the road and said he cant make raising his steers buying $6 corn, hes gonna lose his shirt, would you sell him corn for less than the ethanol plant is paying, and you have less net profit, but the neighbor isnt going broke?? Honest question.

 

[teddy52food]

My opinion is that ethanol is like a dog chasing his tail.

 

[jose bagge]

First, the REAL way to "grow" ethanol is with sugar cane, not corn...corn-produced ethanol is currently a prop and always will be...

Second; what ya gonna do with your $500? Stimulus my a$$- it's buying votes from the 50% of America that pays 3% of the income tax

 

[Tradititonal Farmer]

Ethanol will 'go away' as soon as the gov't quits subdizing it.

 

[730 virgil]

what does distillers grain cost per ton? why not replace some of the 6 dollar corn with distillers?
distillers is a by product of ethanol. in the process of making ethanol some nutrients that are tied up are freed up to make a better feed product.
it is my understanding there is a glut of distillers grain i would think the price is reasonable.

 

[Spook]

Yup. But they are getting to be the majority in this country. The % of not haves is growing pretty fast.

 

[Bill sc mn.]

Why Blame Ethanol. Big oil started the raise of oil price which raise the input cost of raising corn.Big oil get subsidy too. The cattle guy made good money when corn was under 2 dollors.In a year from cattle and hogs will be good money.Alot of things got us to this point.Value of the dollor,fund trader,weather,exports and the fact grain prices have ben to cheep for to long.The market will set price grain. Feed, Fuel, Food.

 

[Anonymous-0]

''The % of not haves is growing pretty fast''

Yes, because they are too lazy, stoned, drunk or just plain worthless to get off their buttts and make a living. They have come to expect government handouts every time they get knocked up or don't feel like working.

If you set your mind to it, stick with a plan and work smart, anybody can succeed in this country. Or you can sit on your buttt and whine about how tough you have it.

 

[Spook]

Well, lets see, if you are working in a factory and they move the jobs to Mexico, as they did recently at the Electrolux plant in Greenville, 3000 jobs dissappeared in one day. Or like my neighbor who worked for Ford for 30 years. One day he went to work, and found his engineering job had gone to India. Or my neighbor who has a home improvement biz. He has gone from having 14 workers to 0. He was grossing a couple million per year. In the long run most of us will have some good times and tough times. A good Christian doesn't harm the less fortunate.

 

[IaGary]

Sugar cane cannot be growen in the midwest.

To cool and to short of growing season.

Gary

 

[IaGary]

Ethanol would not go away it would just cost you more for a gallon of gas.

What you save in taxes would be eaten up in higher fuel costs.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Right, Spook... 3 years ago, I was turning away work at our tool and die shop.. Then all the work went to China.. I actually get some "Customers" that are looking for shops that will do free work.. No joke, they ask.. It is fun to cuss them out..

 

[Anonymous-0]

Maybe you would like to go and fight the war for oil????

 

[Minnbrad]

Alot of people don"t understand the the 54 cent subsidy of ethanol.The ethanol people do not recieve it! the oil people do and it goes rite to them as a credit at 54 cents a gallon for blending it.Last fall in october ethanol was about a $1.30 and if you do the math they blended ethanol, recieved the credit so that equals less than 80 cents for the product,big oil than sells it at the pump for 3 bucks(in october)now it doesn"t take a rocket scientist to figure out alot of money is being made for just handling it.You can knock ethanol all you want but I haven"t seen any dead bodies in my fields from protecting the oil fields.

 

[jose bagge]

so- you grown CORN in the mid west to actually FEED people and animals, and grown CANE in the south and south west to make ethanol...
right now, talking sugar cane is talking south america- why let chavez hold all the cards?

In the right climate, sugar cane growths like a weed- outta control, just like bamboo.

As a Virginian, if the ever find a way to convert oak leaves to fuel i am in high cotton!!!

 

[IaGary]

It would be tuff to use in the south also.

Needs to be growen year around.

Once it is cut you only have 30 days to process into ethanol.

Thats why it works in the tropics they can grow it year around.

The ethanol plants can operate year around that way.

Gary

 

[trucker40]

Well its unfortunate that Cattle growers are hit with high corn prices,however maybe when corn was 2.00 a bushel and grain farmers were hurting it would have been nice on the cattle growers part to give the corn farmers a steer to butcher?Is that not what you would want them to do?
The bums responsible for this are speculators and they are doing this according to some creeps plan to get us mad at each other and stir things up as much as they can.
Somebody needs to tell me why,if you are somebody like Bush/Cheney or some other rich person,do you destroy the economy of the country?Why do you send our Army to fight people that dont wear uniforms and for what?They dont want Democracy,and it doesnt look like thats whats being offered to them .Mostly what they are getting is DU weapons laying around all over the place and turning more of them into terrorists.
We dont even get the oil?Now thats stupid.
Instead of breaking the guy growing beef,or pork or poultry,why not send the marshalls to the Chicago Board of Trade and shut it down,then have a little talk with them with some clubs and "ask"them to conduct their trading in a wiser manner.Makes sense to me.I could care less what Rosie ODonnel does in her private life,but she has more sense than some running our country,and would be a better President than what we have now.

 

[hayray]

Hey Dave, I agree with you. I am loosing my shirt on my cattle right now. I have over 50 head and am in the cattle pretty deep right now for my size of operation and I buy all my corn. I never received any subsidy for my beef, pasture, or hay ground but the cash grain farmers are always getting a break, they did when corn was under $2/bushel. This disaster is not the grain farmers fault, it is created by the subsidy that keeps the ethanol going, right now a $.51/gallon tax credit to the blenders, plus there are of course a huge amount of incentives from both state and federal goverments to keep the ball rolling as well as some goverment mandates that will be in the future to force us to use this stuff. My friends that are raising hogs are even hurting worse then the beef guys. If it weren't for my hay business I would have lost everything by now.

 

[hayray]

There is not a glut of distillers grain in my area. I Checked into getting it and it was priced by the ton higher then corn and you can usually only replace about 20% of the corn in the diet with it or you get into some serious nutritional problems above that. Some are using 30% with a nutritionist on staff balancing complicated rations.

 

[Paul Sebek]

In order for some to succeed many have to fail, the definition of capitalism. Why should anyone bust their butts with nothing to expect? The bad part about getting an education is you realize how crappy things are getting. The future looks bleak on the low end and they know it.

If you work hard, you eventually end up getting it taken from you by government, business, thieves(government and business), and that's just trying to live nevermind enjoy it, so what's the motivation again? Capitalism is about protecting your own a**, and as long as the future looks better sitting on your butt then that's what most people will do rather than working to give it to someone else. All it means is some of the public is smarter than given credit. Many have realized from watching their parents among others that working your a** off for 30 years and retiring to enjoy whats left, assuming you survive, sucks. All you have to do is look a Japan's suicide figures to realize how bad despair for the future can get. We aren't there yet but we're well on the way.


Many don't believe in or can't handle competition for its own sake. Be happy with it otherwise most of you would be out of business or having an even tougher time so save the complaining.

 

[paul]

Ethanol in MN is about returning some profit back to MN farmers on corn that no one wants any more. Other countries bought from other countries, not the USA until a last resort. As about as far from a port as physically possible, MN has a really bad basis corn price. We were getting $1.60 for our corn many years.

Livestock farmers openly laughed at grain farmers 'round here. Had that happen to me several times - grain so cheap to buy - ha ha.

Ethanol provides better air quality, and very slightly stretches our fuel supply.

Ethanol adds O2 which makes gasoline burn cleaner. It also adds a ton of octaine to the fuel, so the gasoline portion does not need to be refined as much. And despite all the hupla you hear from some corners, a gallon of ethanol burned as fuel saves about 1/4 to 1/3 of a gallon of perto fuels, so it _does_ increase the fuel supply taking into acount the fuel used to make it.

Without the E10 fuel blend, you would have less fuel available, and prices would be even higher right now.

Farmers themselves put up money to build & develop the ethanol industry up here. We did not change the national (Chicago Board of Trade) price of corn very much at all - not all that much corn is being used for ethanol. We _did_ change the local basis quite a bit. Used to be we got 50 cents, even 70 cents less than the CBOT price for our corn. Now we are closer to 30 cents under. That has helped corn farmers here in MN, while not really changing the price of corn in Texas, or New York. It is the _local_ basis prices that change with ethanol plants being in the area.

The CBOT prices have changed because of 3 things. Speculators; world demand; and the greatly lowered USA dollar value. Ethanol has not had much at all to do with this price change - other than infuencing speculators some.

Without ethanol, we would have slightly lower feed prices because speculators would be only slightly less heated up over grain markets.

We would have higher fuel costs, because there would be 3% or so less gallons of fuel available. And our gasoline would yield slightly less per barrel of crude - needs more refining. And there would be less fuel options, more central control.

The one big main central thing affecting both food & fuel prices is the devalued dollar - this has made everything we export (like grains) priced right to other countries, so they are buying buying buying. As well, speculators are willing to buy grains because anything else they invest in - bonds, stocks, housing - worthless - commodities like grains are appreciating in value so the speculators dump money into buying them and that makes them appreciate even more...

The lowered dollar value also makes anything we import - fuel, fertilizer, herbicides, fish & other goods - cost more.

All of this can be pointed directly at the ARM morgages & the housing bubble that was known to be a bad thing, but people kept buying & leveraging & building bigger.....

Sorting that mess out is going to hurt - all of us. And it will result in higher prices, less jobs.

Ethanol has very little to do with any of this, and likely is helping keep fuel prices from climbing even higher. Bulk ethanol prices have not climbed as high as crude oil - blended ethanol fuels are keeping the price down.

Without ethanol a decade ago, corn prices woulda been even worse, and I believe you would have seen more of our food production going overseas - less food produced here in the uSA because farmers could not produce for what the general public was offering.

Can you imaging what food prices would be if we relyed upon imported food more than we do? Our low dollar value... We would become a 3rd world country.

I believe ethanol has saved us from a horrible ecconomic event here.

Give it some thought.

--->Paul

 

[Anonymous-0]

paul sebek
04-26-2008 08:53:58
24.246.203.30
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Re: Re Stimulus Package reply from me in reply to Chicken Little, 04-25-2008 19:08:35

In order for some to succeed many have to fail, the definition of capitalism. Why should anyone bust their butts with nothing to expect? The bad part about getting an education is you realize how crappy things are getting. The future looks bleak on the low end and they know it


This place has really been taken over by whining losers who won't work in order to succeed. They just want to sit here all day blaming someone else for their lack of ambition.

BOO HOO LOSERS

 

[Paul Sebek]

You whined/squealed first. Maybe you should report yourself.



I'm just saying what I've learned from people I know, many in the 18-28 year-old bracket.

 

[Paul Sebek]

Ambition isn't a requirement to live and it shouldn't be. No one is the same and its just prejudicial to prefer the ambitious since the rest often have just as much to contribute.



ex. Like keeping the ambitious ones from killing each other or the rest of us in their drive to the top/bottom. We have plenty of examples of this behavior over the last hundred years, hell just look at the last ten. Seems the moderates are weaker at the moment though.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I wonder how much it helps our economy that my taxes, which I have to work hard for, are being GIVEN to a farmer to grow cattails and pheasants.

Sounds more like redistribution of money to me.
The workers earn so the government can give to those who don't.

It's pretty ironic that you guys pizz and moan about our government giving back some tax money to the non-farmers for once.

 

[Anonymous-0]

"Ambition isn't a requirement to live and it shouldn't be. No one is the same and its just prejudicial to prefer the ambitious since the rest often have just as much to contribute"

Do you have any idea of what you are saying?

If you want to live in mom's basement and play video games until you are 40, go ahead. Just don't expect to share in the rewards of those who started busting their hump to make it on their own. Many of us have succeeded even though we grew up poor and have nothing more than a high school education. We were taught a good work ethic as that is all our parent had to give us. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

Please don't justify the excuses of the bums.

 

[trucker40]

If grain prices had been any worse there would even be less farmers than there are now.As far as people that raise cattle are concerned,they should buy/rent some ground and grow some corn,maybe in a couple of years this will change again,but until it does there seems to be not much else to do.
Looks like its a world problem.I dont see where its possible that making Ethanol is causing people to starve.Like you said and others said as well,low priced grain.I worked for Con Agra for 3 years in the late 1990s,they thought that it was up to them to have low cost grain and export products in the world,and used the CBOT TO DO IT.They were begun from the CBOT in the early 70s.Nobody I know of and certainly not any farmers ever voted for Con Agra or any other big corporation to sell their grain in the world for rock bottom prices.They did it,and lots of other things that will make you fighting mad.I suppose thats why big companys have teams of lawyers working for them all the time.
Everything and everybody that works for big companies is not always bad.I remember that when people were starving in Russia,and Bill Clinton was President,he talked Tyson into giving Russia a couple of boat loads of hot dogs and other stuff.It didnt take long for it to happen either because about as soon as I heard it on the radio,next thing I was in a line of semis waiting to unload on a ship in the Gulf Of Mexico.
Something is wrong with whats going on this time.We feed lots of people in the world as it is.To jump grain up there is not to help the farmers its some political agenda.

 

[Anonymous-0]

You said your hero Clinton "gave" Russia some free hot dogs. Here is the real reason behind it. This article is from 1996.
Clinton Tyson Russia connection

 

[Tradititonal Farmer]

Then get the gov't out of the ethanol/farmer welfare business and let the free market decide

 

[Anonymous-0]

Folks are being absolutely duped into thinking that ethanol will solve anything. It is a waste of water, fertlizer, fuel to farm it, fuel to process it, and on and on and on. Ethonel will not solve anything. Our fuel is high because of our weak dollar. You cannot keep deficit spending, keep letting 30-40 Millon ilegal Mexicans drag down the system, keep filling the stores with China products, losing all our manufacturing base. Over 30 cents of every tax dollar has to be used to pay INTEREST on the deficit, which has increased by more thant $4 TRILLION under ole Bushie. He has spent money like a drunk sailor in a house of ill repute, all on credit (deficit). Wait until OPEC changes from US dollar based pricing to Euro based pricing of oil. Current prices will look like a real bargin then because our Dollare is so badly devalued from unfinanced war and deficit spending. As I have said before fuel prices are about 20th on our REAL worry list. Tom

 

[Big Mike]

It worries ME, and a buncha other people! Enjoy your Dividends, Tom....

 

[Paul Sebek]

Stop taking things out of context and try to understand what's being said. I understand what I'm saying do you understand what you are saying?



It doesn't take ambition to survive, just needs. Ambition is voluntary, well for most anyway. It's based on wants. Believe or not many people are just happy getting along with what life puts in front of them. Many don't even know what they want and often have time to decide, you know, bums. By the way, I was taught a good work ethic too, but it's not just about work ethics, it's about life ethics. Watching other peoples parents die just after retirement kind of defeats any kind of old fashioned slave based work ethic real quick. Oh yea, working straight from high school may have worked 40 years ago but it is a lot less likely to be effective now than then. As for being successful, it depends on how you measure success, doesn't it? Many of the young don't expect to do even as well as their parents but still have high expectations and are smart enough to know what won't make it. They learn from what they see and what they see must be pretty scary with employers paying low and living costs high. The world and life is a hell of a lot more complex than it was 40 years ago and definitely more gamed.



Yes, there is a brat pack now kind of like the yuppie pack of 40 years ago who got a free ride on everything and still is. The younger set will be paying off their ride for generations and the new pack is just a result of the old one. Just remember the peoples backs that your success came off of and will continue to come off of cause I doubt you do all, and I mean all, the work.(irrespective of pay) Something that most people in their arrogance refuse to acknowledge.
Self-serving arrogance doesn't impress me.



It takes a whole lot of different people to make a world work. You did what's best for you and they're doing what's best for them and not hurting you so stop being so discriminatory. They may be bums but they're not selfishly whining on anyone else.

 

[hayray]

That massively huge body of water that Duluth sits on is called Lake Superior. There is a major grain dock there. Look at the map and you will notice this huge body of water. There is also a really huge river that runs out of Minnesota, it is known as the Mississippi River, a lot of grain gets moved down it to New Orleans.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Right on. Minnesota has better access to world markets than most grain producing states. All kinds of overseas ships docked in Lake Superior at Duluth. And huge barges leaving constantly down the mighty Miss.

 

[paul]

The locks on the Missisippi are rather outdated, and limit the size of barges that can go down them.

Same for the Great Lakes - in addition Europe isn't buying all that much from us, so limited traffic down either route. It needs to get to the Pasific and Panama Canal is too small, either route doesn't lead well to the Pasific Rim.

Rail traffic to the west coast is the in thing now for grain.

Doesn't matter if you don't believe me, basis money says we produce way more grains than we consume here in MN & the Dakotas, and that leads to very under-valued grain.

All there in the basis charts.

--->Paul

 

[trucker40]

Look enough with the tard.It had to be 1998 or 1999 when they got the hot dogs,probly 1999.Shows what you and whoever wrote that know,in those days,1996,chickens were being grown with so many steroids that they only had a few feathers and couldnt hardly stand up when they were butchered.Nobody wanted to eat them and the chicken growers were forced to cut down on the steroids.Your hit piece said our chicken was tastier,which is a lie.Next,they got the food which was at least 2 shiploads of hot dogs and I dont remember what else but I think turkeys.It did not all come from Arkansas,but lots of places.In a few days 300 or more truckloads of hot dogs for one ship came together and were in Biloxi,Ms.You couldnt get 300 loads of hot dogs out of Arkansas in a month,maybe not even in 2 months.These loads got there in days.