Reconnecting the Cub

[Paul 300 U]

Hello all,
A couple of months back I posted that my 1963 International Cub appeared to be leaking transmission fluid. I confirmed it was and finally got around to splitting and replacing the seals and gaskets. Now I can't get it back together. It seem like the clutch is in the way but I really don't know. I've tried making sure the halves are level. I'm looking forward to any suggestions.
Thanks Paul.

 

[Powered By IH]

Hey Paul, glad to see you back with questions!

How far apart/together do you get the 2 halves before you start having problems?
A couple things:
Have you pushed down the clutch pedal at all? This would cause the clutch to release, dropping the drive disk and causing realignment issues.
Can you roll it together as much as you can, then look up in the clutch inspection hole and see/take a picture of where it's stopping?
Is that white grease on the input shaft?

Also as a reminder, NEVER use bolts to force a tractor back together, as more damage will be caused.

Thanks in advance!

 

[used red MN]

Hey Paul, glad to see you back with questions!

How far apart/together do you get the 2 halves before you start having problems?
A couple things:
Have you pushed down the clutch pedal at all? This would cause the clutch to release, dropping the drive disk and causing realignment issues.
Can you roll it together as much as you can, then look up in the clutch inspection hole and see/take a picture of where it's stopping?
Is that white grease on the input shaft?

Also as a reminder, NEVER use bolts to force a tractor back together, as more damage will be caused.

Thanks in advance!

Does your tractor have PTO? I think the majority of Cubs did. Place the transmission in neutral and engage the PTO. As the halves come together turn the PTO back and forth to allow the clutch and trans input shaft spines to line up.

 

[Kevinwterry]

I've used bolts to align tractors before. I also do most of my work by myself.

 

[Kevinwterry]

Might not be aligned properly. I've had a few that just needed a wiggle or so. Also try rotatimg the engine a hair. Sometine Things settle/ jacks creep down. Sounds like the clutch isnt wanting to go into the flywheel.

 

[Paul 300 U]

Hey Paul, glad to see you back with questions!

How far apart/together do you get the 2 halves before you start having problems?
A couple things:
Have you pushed down the clutch pedal at all? This would cause the clutch to release, dropping the drive disk and causing realignment issues.
Can you roll it together as much as you can, then look up in the clutch inspection hole and see/take a picture of where it's stopping?
Is that white grease on the input shaft?

Also as a reminder, NEVER use bolts to force a tractor back together, as more damage will be caused.

Thanks in advance!

Hello Powered by IH
It's very possible that I pushed down on the clutch while I was splitting the tractor. It was sticking on my initial split and i thought pushing down the clutch might help unstick it. I've also tried keeping the clutch, depressed and while trying to reassemble the tractor.
Sorry all of my photos are rotated incorrectly. I've edited one of my photos, and if you rotate the camera a quarter turn counterclockwise., you'll see how the clutch is out of alignment. Hopefully, it helps understand the problem and provide a solution.I appreciate the feedback.
Thanks Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

Does your tractor have PTO? I think the majority of Cubs did. Place the transmission in neutral and engage the PTO. As the halves come together turn the PTO back and forth to allow the clutch and trans input shaft spines to line up.

Hi Used Red MN
I did try that over and over. I seperated again and unfortunately it appears that the clutch is no longer correctly aligned with the flywheel. I'm not certain that I have my terms correct but you can see what I mean in the picture I attached.
Thanks.
Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

Might not be aligned properly. I've had a few that just needed a wiggle or so. Also try rotatimg the engine a hair. Sometine Things settle/ jacks creep down. Sounds like the clutch isnt wanting to go into the flywheel.

Kevinwterry, thanks for the reply. I have tried realigning and leveling several times. I think the clutch is no longer aligned correctly internally. Thanks! Paul

 

[J.Wondergem]

Kevinwterry, thanks for the reply. I have tried realigning and leveling several times. I think the clutch is no longer aligned correctly internally. Thanks! Paul

Sounds like you have to push the clutch down to release the discs so you can line them back up.
I was wrong. You can't push the clutch down. You'll have to loosen the pressure plate and reline the discs.

 

[Jim.ME]

I am not a Cub guy so I may be seeing this wrong.

It looks like the clutch disc dropped and there is a piece broken out of the throw out bearing, If I am looking at it correctly. If that is right, I am guessing you need to split it at the engine to correct the clutch/throw out bearing issues. Then mount the torque tube to the transmission and make the torque tube to engine split up last.

 

[Powered By IH]

I am not a Cub guy so I may be seeing this wrong.

It looks like the clutch disc dropped and there is a piece broken out of the throw out bearing, If I am looking at it correctly. If that is right, I am guessing you need to split it at the engine to correct the clutch/throw out bearing issues. Then mount the torque tube to the transmission and make the torque tube to engine split up last.

I think you are correct with the clutch disk dropping-the clutch disk is no longer aligned inside the clutch.
However I don't see any piece broken out of the throw out bearing, maybe you want to elaborate on that? FYI, the Cub throw out bearings are different than regular tractor ones. The shiny part looks like the clutch disk center.

So I think your last shot without splitting the tractor up front, is to have a helper push down on the clutch pedal (a ratchet strap works too) and then have them look through the back (like the pictures) while you take 2 flathead screwdrivers and push up on the clutch disk from the bottom inspection cover. The helper would release the clutch pedal when it's centered, locking it in place. Please don't use your fingers, use screwdrivers.
Then as used red said, engage the PTO. Roll it back together without pushing the clutch in, and roll the PTO over if needed to get the splines aligned. You might need to push the clutch in at the very end once the clutch disk is on the splines, as viewed from the bottom inspection plate.

Any other opinions?

A little help with the pictures, and what the clutch should look like realigned correctly.

 

[Jim.ME]

I think you are correct with the clutch disk dropping-the clutch disk is no longer aligned inside the clutch.
However I don't see any piece broken out of the throw out bearing, maybe you want to elaborate on that? FYI, the Cub throw out bearings are different than regular tractor ones. The shiny part looks like the clutch disk center.

So I think your last shot without splitting the tractor up front, is to have a helper push down on the clutch pedal (a ratchet strap works too) and then have them look through the back (like the pictures) while you take 2 flathead screwdrivers and push up on the clutch disk from the bottom inspection cover. The helper would release the clutch pedal when it's centered, locking it in place. Please don't use your fingers, use screwdrivers.
Then as used red said, engage the PTO. Roll it back together without pushing the clutch in, and roll the PTO over if needed to get the splines aligned. You might need to push the clutch in at the very end once the clutch disk is on the splines, as viewed from the bottom inspection plate.

Any other opinions?

A little help with the pictures, and what the clutch should look like realigned correctly.

I know they are different. After playing with (enlarging and changing lighting) the pictures, I think it is the shape of the casting blocking view of part of the bearing. As I said may have been seeing it wrong, and it looks like I was right.

 

[Paul 300 U]

Jim ME and Powered by IH thanks for the dialog. I am concerned about what looks like a bite out of thar disc. Thanks Paul

 

[Kevinwterry]

Can you take a wooden towel and taper the end to create a long clutch alignment tool to help get that disk back centered? Otherwise id just split the tractor at the engine and put the torque tube back on the transmission first, like someone mentioned earlier.

 

[used red MN]

Jim ME and Powered by IH thanks for the dialog. I am concerned about what looks like a bite out of thar disc. Thanks Paul

I think that “bite” is just part of the casting blocking the view of the complete circle, you should easily be able to see what is actually going on there looking at it in person from a lower vantage point that may not have produced the best photo. The a long ground down dowel may work but an alignment tool for the clutch is a for sure way to have the correct alignment. YT Farmall Cub clutch too However I also am not real familiar with Cubs so there may be no way to access the clutch to install it properly the way you have it split. I hate to thumb down YT parts but there are probably other outlets for that tool that won’t charge you more for shipping than the tool costs.

 

[Powered By IH]

I think that “bite” is just part of the casting blocking the view of the complete circle, you should easily be able to see what is actually going on there looking at it in person from a lower vantage point that may not have produced the best photo. The a long ground down dowel may work but an alignment tool for the clutch is a for sure way to have the correct alignment. YT Farmall Cub clutch too However I also am not real familiar with Cubs so there may be no way to access the clutch to install it properly the way you have it split. I hate to thumb down YT parts but there are probably other outlets for that tool that won’t charge you more for shipping than the tool costs.

Yes, to use the clutch alignment tool he would have to split the tractor at the front section to be able to use it properly.
The dowel idea is a good idea, hadn't thought of that. He just needs a really long dowel...LOL
Ultimately, I would like to hear from Paul and see what his resources are, and what he wants to proceed with. That way we are better able to help him.

 

[Paul 300 U]

Hi all,
I am going to try and re-center through some combination of a long dowel, depressing the clutch and trying to align through the inspection opening. If those don't sound plausible or if there are any other suggestions let me know. I really would rather not split the tractor again.
Thanks. Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

Hello all,
A couple of months back I posted that my 1963 International Cub appeared to be leaking transmission fluid. I confirmed it was and finally got around to splitting and replacing the seals and gaskets. Now I can't get it back together. It seem like the clutch is in the way but I really don't know. I've tried making sure the halves are level. I'm looking forward to any suggestions.
Thanks Paul.

Quick update. By working through the inspection opening I was able to manipulate the disc's and the shaft using screwdrivers etc. I also needed to depress and release the clutch to help with alignment. I'm close, less than half inch split but I can't get the gap completely closed. When I turn the PTO i can see the fan spinning. Everything appears properly aligned and I can push one side practically closed (by pushing on the rear tire) but then the other side opens. Pushing on both rear tires doesn't quite close the gap either. I'm tempted to put the bolts in then slowly pull it together that way but am concerned I'll break something. Any thoughts on how to proceed. Thanks! Paul

 

[Powered By IH]

Do you have pictures?
Like you had before, looking down the clutch housing.

 

[rustred]

Quick update. By working through the inspection opening I was able to manipulate the disc's and the shaft using screwdrivers etc. I also needed to depress and release the clutch to help with alignment. I'm close, less than half inch split but I can't get the gap completely closed. When I turn the PTO i can see the fan spinning. Everything appears properly aligned and I can push one side practically closed (by pushing on the rear tire) but then the other side opens. Pushing on both rear tires doesn't quite close the gap either. I'm tempted to put the bolts in then slowly pull it together that way but am concerned I'll break something. Any thoughts on how to proceed. Thanks! Paul

this would mean the shaft is not entering the crankshaft bushing or brg. which one does it have ? usually when replacing either one they get fitting on the trans shaft to make sure things are good. things get tricky when you dont have a pilot shaft to align the clutch disc. and when things are aligned correctly the halves just slide together. i dont think i would be drawing them in with bolts. its a no no anyway.