Reconnecting the Cub

[rustred]

I have accumulated a pile of pilot shafts in over fifty years of wrenching. I also have used a Lisle kit like the one i posted many many times. If a person cannot figure how to do an alignment with it then, maybe someone else should be doing the job.

Perfect example right here.

 

[rustred]

I see IH posted pictures of a cub and I thought it was Paul’s pictures. As there I am looking at the pressure plate. So now I have a better handle on this situation. Paul is trying to get that long pilot shaft into the p p splines. That is not the usual way to get a shaft into splines. That long shaft has sag in it. The proper way is to have the split at the bell housing. Pauls way can be done but takes extra care with experience. So if the clutch disc has fallen down due to carelessness then for sure it needs a split at bell housing. Then put the tube on the trans. Then roll front back.this situation is all backwards.

 

[rustred]

I see IH posted pictures of a cub and I thought it was Paul’s pictures. As there I am looking at the pressure plate. So now I have a better handle on this situation. Paul is trying to get that long pilot shaft into the p p splines. That is not the usual way to get a shaft into splines. That long shaft has sag in it. The proper way is to have the split at the bell housing. Pauls way can be done but takes extra care with experience. So if the clutch disc has fallen down due to carelessness then for sure it needs a split at bell housing. Then put the tube on the trans. Then roll front back.this situation is all backwards.

And also why would a person not check the clutch and crank bushing when the tractor is split already.

 

[560Dennis]

If you installed a new pilot bushing there in a really good chance you mushroomed it a bit and the shaft ain't going in.....it's a very common issue . You will probably have to slide the halves far enough apart to ream the bushing out a bit. If you force it together using bolts there is a good chance the shaft won't spin in the bushing.

Tip ,use one of these tools and you won’t mushroom the the pilot bushing.

 

[Powered By IH]

I think there is some misinformation floating on this thread right now.
The tractor was originally split between the clutch housing and transmission to replace a leaking transmission input shaft seal, which Paul was successful with. No clutch work at all.

The tractor so far has not been split at the clutch housing. Thus all the clutch components should be fine, like the pilot bushing, the input shaft, etc. The pilot bushing has not been replaced either.
The clutch disk is currently mis-aligned in the clutch because the clutch was pushed down.
Unless Paul can somehow push down the clutch AND wedge an alignment tool through the hand hole plus the throw out bushing AND center the disk all at the same time, a regular alignment tool is not going to work. Hence the improvisation part of this thread.

Make sure that you can turn the fan with the PTO, as a helper is lightly pushing from the back of the tractor, then you or your helper push up on the clutch input shaft from the bottom handhole. With the clutch disengaged and constant pressure from the rear end, the shaft should pop right into the pilot bushing.
Only use bolts for holding the tractor together, not forcing it together.

This is the OP's best option right now without splitting the tractor again. I know some of you could split it again quickly, but tools and/or shop space might be limited. It is still possible to fix this without splitting at the engine, but it takes time and patience.

Going forward, I encourage people to read the entire thread so they have all the necessary information before posting.

@Paul 300 U please correct me if I'm wrong at all.

 

[MM-TX]

Going forward, I strongly encourage people to read the entire thread so they have all the necessary information before posting.

post #6
Maybe he kept the clutch in place and maybe not.

Hello Powered by IH
It's very possible that I pushed down on the clutch while I was splitting the tractor. It was sticking on my initial split and i thought pushing down the clutch might help unstick it. I've also tried keeping the clutch, depressed and while trying to reassemble the tractor.
Sorry all of my photos are rotated incorrectly. I've edited one of my photos, and if you rotate the camera a quarter turn counterclockwise., you'll see how the clutch is out of alignment. Hopefully, it helps understand the problem and provide a solution.I appreciate the feedback.
Thanks Paul

 

[Jim.ME]

I think there is some misinformation floating on this thread right now.
The tractor was originally split between the clutch housing and transmission to replace a leaking transmission input shaft seal, which Paul was successful with. No clutch work at all.

The tractor so far has not been split at the clutch housing. Thus all the clutch components should be fine and slip right in, like the pilot bushing, the input shaft, etc. The pilot bushing has not been replaced either.
Unless Paul can somehow push down the clutch AND wedge an alignment tool through the hand hole plus the throw out bushing AND center the disk all at the same time, a regular alignment tool is not going to work. Hence the improvisation part of this thread.

This is the OP's best option right now without splitting the tractor again. I know some of you could split it again quickly, but tools and/or shop space might be limited. It is still possible to fix this without splitting at the engine, but it takes time and patience.

Going forward, I strongly encourage people to read the entire thread so they have all the necessary information before posting.

@Paul 300 U please correct me if I'm wrong at all.

Read his post #6. It sounds very likely he has pushed the clutch pedal more than once. Pictures he has posted appear to show the clutch disc down and a bit to the left.

Looks to me like either make a long pilot from a broomstick and try to get the disc better centered (as has been posted), or do the split at the clutch and align the disc (as has been posted). Then put the torque tube on the transmission before putting it together at the clutch split.

 

[used red MN]

post #6
Maybe he kept the clutch in place and maybe not.

Powered by IH acknowledged thi in reply 45, the one you are referencing.

The clutch disk is currently mis-aligned in the clutch because the clutch was pushed down.

Seems to confirm his complaint about not reading and comprehending and taking in to consideration ALL THE REPLIES in a thread.
Anyone who has very much mechanical repair knowledge and comprehension of the English language does not have to read these YT forums very long to determine that there is a lot of “shooting from the cuff” on here. Am I 100 percent flawless? No. But I try to take into consideration all the information in replies when I do chime in.
I do agree with Pb IH, that often times consideration is not given to those that are not doing these things daily and are working with limited experience.

 

[grandpa Love]

and there is a tool for that also. who hammers on a pilot bushing ???

You would be surprised and sad at how often it's an issue. Lots of younger folks are buying and working on Cubs. They just don't know, but I'm happy to see them buying, fixing and using old stuff. They can learn

 

[grandpa Love]

Tip ,use one of these tools and you won’t mushroom the the pilot bushing.
View attachment 141253

We took a shaft out of a scrap Cub,cut off a foot of it .... works great. Both as a bushing install tool and clutch disk line up

 

[grandpa Love]

Geeze.....this post ,for me , is very difficult to follow

 

[Rich'sToys]

Geeze.....this post ,for me , is very difficult to follow

Seems they all get that way after a while.

 

[Old Ford Mechanic]

My bad. I did not read closely enough and understand that the tractor was split at the rear instead of at the clutch assembly. I will try to do better.

 

[560Dennis]

My bad. I did not read closely enough and understand that the tractor was split at the rear instead of at the clutch assembly. I will try to do better.

Don’t worry about it ,press ahead

 

[Paul 300 U]

Hello all,
A couple of months back I posted that my 1963 International Cub appeared to be leaking transmission fluid. I confirmed it was and finally got around to splitting and replacing the seals and gaskets. Now I can't get it back together. It seem like the clutch is in the way but I really don't know. I've tried making sure the halves are level. I'm looking forward to any suggestions.
Thanks Paul.

Good morning and thank you to all who provided input. I was able to get the Cub back together yesterday.
I separated the tractor by about 2.5 inches and got all the bolts started as I slowly pushed the tractor back together. At about 3/4 it again would no longer close. I experimented with several ideas including pushing up on the shaft while pulling the clutch down, which fortunately can be reached from under the tractor. (My only "helper", my wife refused to brave the single digit cold even though my garage heats to a toasty 35 degrees!) I also used the hoist and floor jack to alter the verticle angle of the shaft a bit. Finally I got behind the tractor and pushed alrernately on each tire to try and get some left to right wiggle. After about a 30 seconds of this I heard a light, metallic clang and the gap decreased. I completed the close by tightening the bolts.
I really do appreciate the help. Yes, it's obvious I'm inexperienced. Through this site I've been able to make several fairly major repairs and a score of minor ones to keep my 300U, 350U and now the Cub working (hooray for me!) It's a hobby but we use these tractors for lots of chores around our property. I could replace all of them with one modern tractor but what's the fun in that!

Btw, I'm neither young nor oversensitive and don't want to come off as whining. I personally dont mind a little jab when I display a lack of common sense. However, their will be folks new to old tractors who will become quickly disenchanted if they get criticized for attempting a repair they don't know how to complete. I came to this site about 6 years ago knowing even less than I do now, but lots of good people here, many who replied to this post, have guided me through to get the repair done. Just a reminder that many come to this site for help, and in my case, lots of it!! Thanks again. Paul

 

[560Dennis]

Good morning and thank you to all who provided input. I was able to get the Cub back together yesterday.
I separated the tractor by about 2.5 inches and got all the bolts started as I slowly pushed the tractor back together. At about 3/4 it again would no longer close. I experimented with several ideas including pushing up on the shaft while pulling the clutch down, which fortunately can be reached from under the tractor. (My only "helper", my wife refused to brave the single digit cold even though my garage heats to a toasty 35 degrees!) I also used the hoist and floor jack to alter the verticle angle of the shaft a bit. Finally I got behind the tractor and pushed alrernately on each tire to try and get some left to right wiggle. After about a 30 seconds of this I heard a light, metallic clang and the gap decreased. I completed the close by tightening the bolts.
I really do appreciate the help. Yes, it's obvious I'm inexperienced. Through this site I've been able to make several fairly major repairs and a score of minor ones to keep my 300U, 350U and now the Cub working (hooray for me!) It's a hobby but we use these tractors for lots of chores around our property. I could replace all of them with one modern tractor but what's the fun in that!

Btw, I'm neither young nor oversensitive and don't want to come off as whining. I personally dont mind a little jab when I display a lack of common sense. However, their will be folks new to old tractors who will become quickly disenchanted if they get criticized for attempting a repair they don't know how to complete. I came to this site about 6 years ago knowing even less than I do now, but lots of good people here, many who replied to this post, have guided me through to get the repair done. Just a reminder that many come to this site for help, and in my case, lots of it!! Thanks again. Paul

Press ahead ,you’ll get going !

 

[Rich'sToys]

Glad you got it fixed!

 

[used red MN]

Good morning and thank you to all who provided input. I was able to get the Cub back together yesterday.
I separated the tractor by about 2.5 inches and got all the bolts started as I slowly pushed the tractor back together. At about 3/4 it again would no longer close. I experimented with several ideas including pushing up on the shaft while pulling the clutch down, which fortunately can be reached from under the tractor. (My only "helper", my wife refused to brave the single digit cold even though my garage heats to a toasty 35 degrees!) I also used the hoist and floor jack to alter the verticle angle of the shaft a bit. Finally I got behind the tractor and pushed alrernately on each tire to try and get some left to right wiggle. After about a 30 seconds of this I heard a light, metallic clang and the gap decreased. I completed the close by tightening the bolts.
I really do appreciate the help. Yes, it's obvious I'm inexperienced. Through this site I've been able to make several fairly major repairs and a score of minor ones to keep my 300U, 350U and now the Cub working (hooray for me!) It's a hobby but we use these tractors for lots of chores around our property. I could replace all of them with one modern tractor but what's the fun in that!

Btw, I'm neither young nor oversensitive and don't want to come off as whining. I personally dont mind a little jab when I display a lack of common sense. However, their will be folks new to old tractors who will become quickly disenchanted if they get criticized for attempting a repair they don't know how to complete. I came to this site about 6 years ago knowing even less than I do now, but lots of good people here, many who replied to this post, have guided me through to get the repair done. Just a reminder that many come to this site for help, and in my case, lots of it!! Thanks again. Paul

Thank you for the report on your outcome and the added commentary. Hopefully myself and others remember to take these things into consideration before replying here on YT!