Repair or Sell?

[Katharine]

Allright guys,

No more nice, I've read the latest posts. I want your honest opinions, (thanks, I KNOW I got Screwed on various points with this tractor, so no need to go there any further....) Should the money be put into re-building it, or should I sell it and try to re-coup and get something else. YES, this time with an experienced diesel/tractor mechanic at my side.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I would rebuild it, chances are you'll never get your money back out of it.

 

[dhermesc]

Just an observation, if you sell it you'll have someone saying stuff like this about you unless you disclose all the known issues:

=================================================

Katharine, 07-15-2007 16:02:06

I SWEAR I want to SHOOT that guy starting at the toes and working my way North in 3" increments! &^%$#@!@ Son of a !@#$~ and yes, I know "anger get's you know where" but sometimes...... GOODY, so I got a tractor and bush hog for $3100 but now, in total from all the posts I've made in two days, I have about another 2k I need to spend on it, in order to get something that I can get on, turn the bloody key and go get DONE what I need/WANT to get done. *&^%$$# wonderful!!!!

================================================

I'd bite the bullet and have the engine overhauled. You could just as easily have spent $5000 and have the exact same problems (friend of mine did with an 8N). This way you already know your problems are mainly limited to the engine, fix that and you have a good little tractor.

With the tractor and brush hog your not "hurt" too bad knowing what you have with $5000 invested. To get it back, you'll need to own and use the tractor for more then a couple years though.

 

[big jt]

I would rebuild it also.

by rebuilding you will know what you have. If you trade even with a mechanic you still may be buying someone elses problems.

Only exception I could see would be buying from a fleet type situation. Like a state DOT auction. Here in IA they sell tractors like you have a couple times a year. Don't know about FLA.

Easist thing to do is have a good Diesal mech do a rebuild.

jt

 

[Anonymous-0]

I'm not sure but what the IA DOT tractors have been run and fixed until their mechanics can't fix them any more. I've heard that of the generators that they used to use on road signs. For sure lots of the stuff on the IA DOT sales sure appear to have been run hard, long, and put away wet. E.g. worn out twice.

Gerald J.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I've been following your posts, I'd fix the tractor. Buy a couple of the manuals and learn what is involved. Do some research in your area for a good mechanic and/or machine shop. When you get done you will have a known quantity in your tractor and you will have the satisfaction of learning something new. Good luck....Ben

 

[old]

I would look at it this way. If you sell it and buy another one you still don't know what you have and there can be problems that will not be seen till you really start to use it. One the other hand if you rebuild this one you then know its fixed and all is right and it should last you till your kids have put you in the ground. Ya you may put more in it then its worth but you will also have one that will keep going for another 30 years or so if you give it the TLC they all need
Hobby farm

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Trouble with a rebuild is that no one is going to know how much its going to cost before tearing the engine down.An overhaul kit may be the down payment only.Bad crank,bad head,crack in block,bad cam will add up to big $$$$ in combination It'll cost a pile.Throw in a new clutch because it wouldbe very foolish to split the tractor in that condition and not put in a new clutch.Also throw in between $50 to $80 an hour labor.I'd go to a Ford/NH dealership and see what they want for a new bolt in engine.They can at least give you a firm price on the entire job if nothing else you'd have a reference on costs.Its not going to be painless
dollarwise either way but throwing good money after bad can be not too good either.Does everything else on the tractor work as it should?that would make a big difference in your decision. Good Luck

 

[Anonymous-0]

I would buy it a new engine. Look around dealerships for dead treactors with a good engine.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I'd think it's fair to say, that if you could sell it and get your money back, there is no debate as to what to do there, but in the current condition that may be difficult to sell and break even.

Like I had mentioned before, I've strung along this old 850 to keep the fields cut and other things I needed to do until it was a convenient time for repairs, only advantage is the motor does run well, but the other work it needs will probably cost a few bucks and will require some time to do. I take as best care of it and use precaution to try to make it along, knowing I may have a problem in the middle of doing some work, so far so good, these tractors seem to tolerate a lot, also might be what the previous owner of yours did for too long, hard to say.


I'd try to string it along and get the priority work done, that is if it's in no danger of anything catastrophic happening, like tossing a rod etc., then start with the motor rebuild and or anything needing to be done or checked if it's split. You could make a list of repairs and see what you may be able to do yourself or have to send out, itemize the costs and see where you are at and what it will take to get things done before doing anything. You then can compare to selling vs rebuild, knowing the facts for both.

In my ridiculous opinion, the purchase price of that tractor could have been negotiated lower, had the real condition been known at the time of sale, (but even then, it does not appear that what you paid was heavily excessive) leaving some $$ for re-build and restoration, which can be favorable to do for a specific model desired, and if no luck was had finding that specific model in field ready condition. That is a good model tractor and once repaired correctly, should perform well if properly maintained. I'd not hesitate to rebuild any desired model, like a 3400, if I could buy it right, because I know when I'm done, what I'll have, and it's not to say there won't be any snags in the process of rebuilding, just have to get through them.


Get the correct Parts Catalog, Shop Manual, any pertinent bulletins, take a look and see what you may be comfortable doing yourself. I was never that able to do all the work required to do actual engine rebuilding, so I always used a machine shop, but I never had any trouble taking them out and or reinstalling them, depends on what you are comfortable doing to save some $$ vs. sending it out.

Ideally it is usually better to spend a little more up front for one in better condition, one that can be assessed to be in field ready condition with only minor repairs needed, not always possible due to budget constraints, so you do the best you can, I spent similar money on one that needed lots of work, yet I've still made good use of it and it owes me nothing after 5 years, it's made me money actually.

 

[big jt]

We have had three pickups from that auction and all have been good to us. If you analyze the bills it seems to me at least that the vehicles are sold when they either reach a certain age or milage.

Also when something needs fixing it is fixed, not cobbled up to get going again like someone would if they were going to get ride of it soon.

You do have to be careful though to make sure what you are buying came from the state. Some of the stuff from counties and Universities is a little more questionable.

jt

 

[CJ3b_jeep]

I'm not an expert by any means, but it is always best to stay with the knowns rather than the unknowns. Plus, if you sell it now you'll loose out. I'd rebuild it, even though it will not be cheap, put a new clutch in it. While it's down, you might as well paint what ever is left. You'll have yourself a nice tractor when you're done.

 

[Mark]

I don't know why everybody is so 'rebuild' happy. Are you a mechanic? Do you have a decent garage where the mess can lay torn apart for the duration? Are you already pi$$ed off with the thing? (LOL!).

I'm for cutting your losses as they stand...chock it up to an expensive learning experience and dump it. Right now, it is a deep pit waiting for more dollars to be tossed in.....with the hopes...that all will get better. You can throw money at anything until it gets rebuilt...but does the end justify the means?

I hate it that you got hosed and the illegitimate that took you needs to be horse whipped. But my dad always told me....if you get took...you take yourself because ultimately you have the right to walk away. If you don't know what the hell you are doing, leave it alone. Find somebody that does and take their advice. Those are words of wisdom.

Sell that tired old horse to the glue factory if need be. Ask somebody who knows tractors to help you find a good one. It may not happen over night, be patient and wait for a good machine. I have bought several tractors and with the exception of one....all were good units. More than likely of it looks like a POS, it is. Drive by farms looking for tractors for sale. Most likely, a farmer will tell you straight up what is wrong, if anything. If it's gutted, 9 times out of 10 he'll say so. Some creep with a gold tooth and a cheap suit at used car lot will do anything to get your money. When I see tractors on used car lots, i turn my head and keep going. Avoid 'dudes' with tractors..generally they're in up to their eyeballs and looking to dump their mistake as well.

Sell it.......move on. Call it a bad marriage and a good divorce.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Our county EM office bought some radios before a sale. Turns out the DOT was beginning to experience a rapidly rising failure rate so they replaced the entire fleet. Most of the radios have failed in our use even with little use. The DOT has lots of records and watches for those trends to save them money in the long run and so the stuff sold can be approaching a true end of life.

It may be that a 100,000 mile pickup is not much past broken in, so it may be a good buy. When the DOT first started these auctions, there were better bargain prices on vehicles, but now there are many potential buyers without knowledge of the value of the merchandise that tend to push prices unreasonably high. Often with distinct off shore accents.

Gerald J.

 

[Luke S]

Personally I take the other side of this issue. If the engine is that worn then the rest of the tractor is probably that worn. So you put a new engine in it now all you got is a new engine with a wore out tractor. I do not know what kind of financial position you are in but I would dump that sucker in a second and go buy a brand new compact or small utility tractor. If you haven't got the cash to plunck down the manufacturers have some really good finance programs. Most offer zero down and zero percent interest for at least three years and some real cheap interest for up to 5 or 6 years. You may be surprised at how cheap you could get into a new tractor. So you got a payment for a couple years, after that you'll have something that will last you for a long time with no headache's if you keep it maintained. Even if you overhaul the engine this thing is still going to be an old dog that is gonna continually cost you money. A wise man once told me you can either run old stuff and pay repair bills and have headaches, or run new stuff and pay interest and be done in half the time and have time left to sit by the pool and drink a glass of tea. I know which one I'd pick!

 

[Anonymous-0]

I had a guy call me yesterday trying to sell me a MF 6 and 1/2 foot disk he had bought for his new 30 HP Kubota and it would not pull his disk. Don't matter whether it is old or new if it can't do anything.

 

[rrlund]

I've been reading your posts about that thing. Yes you got hosed. When I get something that bad I call "Honest John Stamm" and ask him to make me an offer for parts. Some things just aren't good for anything but being a doner tractor.I'd cut my losses.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I've been following this post and it seems like your husband says all the other systems on the tractor seem fine( hydraulics, three point, ec.). Why not do some research in to what a rebuilt engine would cost, what it would take to do it yourself, and then decide what to do? If you need it to work right away, a rebuilt engine would be the quickest way to go 'cuz you could drop it right in. If you have the time, you could do it yourself with help from a machine shop or a good tractor mechanic. You might also consider having a good tractor mechanic go over the tractor and tell you what it really needs with the understanding that he will not get the work and you will pay him for his evaluation. (You should have done this to begin with!)You can always hire him to do the work later if you decide to keep it.
The odds of you selling it in the condition it's in to try to recoup you money are pretty slim and if the motor is all that's wrong, what are you looking at for a rebuilt motor to drop in? $3000-3500? Doing it yourself will cost maybe $2000-2500?
I can't tell you what to do because I don't know your circumstances but do some foot work and make an informed decision. You'll learn a few things in the process.

 

[RodinNS]

OK. How about this. If you want rid of it, advertise it in the free classifieds or somewhere cheap for what you've got in it... IF somebody bites, and they know what's worng with it, so be it. If not, use it in the meantime, and prepare to rebuild it.
I'd likely rebuild it anyway if it was mine. I doubt you'll get what you paid, but you never know. ust depends on the market in your area and what you're satisfied to get. That said, I wouldn't worry about using it in the meantime as long as the bottom end isn't knocking.

If you are thinking of rebuilding it, start by pricing this list:

3 piston and ring sets, main bearing set, rod bearing set, complete gasket set, cam bearings, and price a crank.

Then, price with a local shop the cost of having the head serviced with new valves and probably oversize valve stems.... Then price out the cost of having a engine machine shop bore and sleeve the engine which is a Ford 175 cid. Then price with a diesel injection shop the cost of servicing the injectors and going through the fuel pump if necessary. It's a good idea to service the injectors, but I wouldn't worry about the pump too much if it's working OK, and it seems to be...

It also wouldn't hurt to price a clutch and pressure plate assembly along with pilot bearing and release bearing. That will cover mostly everything you will need.

For what it's worth, I doubt you'll need a crank, and you may not need to change the clutch if it's not wet with oil and not slipping.... but it's good to know what you may be up against.

Again, I'd fix the thing, and I wouldn't worry about it too much. FIx it when you have the money and don't need the tractor so much because you can expect to be laid up a few weeks with the machine work.... and probably 40 or so hours of labor to do the remainder of the work. Probably less in a good shop... but if you do it yourself, then 40 hours. Anyhow, good luck.

Rod

 

[RodinNS]

You can buy a factory reman engine from NewHolland that will carry a warranty of (I think) 1 year.... and it probably won't cost significantly more than rebuilding yourself. IT is dependant on having a good core.... so there may be adjustments to the price if they can't make the block or head servicable again. IT's worth enquiring anyway.

Rod

 

[Mitch Furness]

Katherine go and price a new 3 cylinder 45hp diesel that is similar quality to what you have. Interest and depreciation are killers, especially if you cant write those costs off against your tax bill at the end of the year. Price how much a contractor will charge you to do what you intend to do with this old Ford in one year even and you will soon see they are worth repairing. The exchange motors sound like they may be reasonable option alternatively as Rod says price up parts and find a mechanic that another farmer will recommend and go with them.

Cheers

Mitch

 

[keh]

I would rebuild the engine putting a sharp pencil against the possibility of just buying a new engine. A friend did that for his 5000 Ford that he had bought new and used for a long time, cost over $5000. Anyway, if you get a good engine in the 3400 I don't think you will wear it out in your lifetime using it no more than it appears that you are goin to use it. No way would I scrap that model tractor because of a bad engine.

KEH

 

[Anonymous-0]

That last sentence definitely has a lot of truth to it, and these new ones are more productive and much better on fuel, sometimes it is better to bite the bullet when you can, running older equipment does have it's price, but is also not the end of the world for moderate to light use.

Comparatively speaking, we went that route at our place with the horses, they bought a new 30 HP Challenger with a loader and a rotary cutter. We also have an '80 3600 Ford diesel and I've got the old 850 at home, they all work well, the new one is smooth to operate, but it'll turn over easy without loaded tires, counter weight and being careless. The older ones are by far heavier built, and have that feel about them, the ole 850 is no joy to run while mowing in the hot humid weather, but nonetheless it does the job, it will out lift and out pull that new one, not exactly the same HP, but I'd prefer it for many tasks, it's just more stable and in 5 years the only break down was a fan belt, and it's been hammered way before I got it. The 3600 has lots of torque, it too needs some work now, but I'd not see it gone for anything, these are great utility tractors when in good running order, but probably the best advice is the owners preference, budget and economics considered for their application. No doubt you can easily dump quite a bit into one, on the older hundred series, wasn't external_link offering ground up restored base model 800's for like $8000 ? You could get a lot of years out one of those with no headaches if done right, bump up to the thousand series, what's it going to take $10,000 at the most, (being generous here)? The 30 HP challenger was like $20,000 and it's had it's shares of petty but annoying things to deal with, no stack, filter soots up, bolts keep loosening, loader frame bolts popping the heads off, and it's not abused.

Hard for anyone to say what the most economical decision actually is, and it's really an owners preference new vs old. If you had to make a living with it, no hesitation about going new, you really have no choice there. I spent a day on a late model M-F 1530 with a loader, handling bales, much heavier than the 30 hp challenger we have, a little bigger, loader frame is also much heavier, not a bad tractor to consider, and a good size in comparison to utility type tractors of the past. I'd have a hard time passing something like that one up, except to avoid the financing and payments. What the heck, find something with low hours,not abused save some $$ there and if the payment gets out of hand, put it up for sale.

Makes a good discussion here though.

 

[wayne2]

I said work the He-- out of it give that young strapper some wrenches wola-WOLA-everything ya wanted plus a ol man who's smiling!!!!! Wayne

 

[george md]

Katharine,

I have been following the saga , and
being an engine rebuilder ,I rebuild mostly
tractor and industrial engines along with some
truck engines,I would rebuild it. Typically
those that want to send you out to get a new
engine have deeper pockets than most and don't
want to be bothered with the work involved.
My neighbor has a 5000 that I rebuilt for
him in 77 and it is just about ready for
another rebuild ,but has seen much hard work
in between .When I did it then I bored it .020
over , don't know how bad it is now ,whether
to go .040 over or put in the flanged repair
sleeves that put it back to standard.I'll find
out when it shows up .
Send me an email and I'll do what I can to
help as it's a little far to send it .

george

 

[RodinNS]

Actually, looking at the pure, simple economics of it, the reman engines are probably about as good as you'll get if you're paying somebody to do the work. Even at a very modest shop rate you can run one awful bill doing an engine. For somebody with basic skills that could change an engine, or even the half day to have it done on that tractor.... and end up with a guarnteed engine.... it makes a person think. They once published the prices of those things on the website, but I see they're no longer there.
The link that Wayne posted shows a 333 that should fit that tractor for something like 4600 bucks, reman....
I wouldn't want to guarntee somebody that I'd reman one of those little blue buggers for that and stand behind it for a year.
Not that you can't rebuild for less.... but sometimes you win...sometimes not.

Rod

 

[TimS in Mo]

I just went back and reread the last couple posts from Katharine and her husband...sounds like the tractor has a minor oil leak at the head gasket and maybe some excessive blowby...3pt, pto, steering, brakes all work good.

So...more than likely needs a valve job on the head, a head gasket, and some rings.

If the tractor is running fine and just using more oil than you like currently, just keep using it and keep the oil topped off, if the previous owner was bad about maintenance, who knows, a stuck ring or two might free up with some use and some oil changes....pull the head and oil pan this fall when you don't need it for mowing, check the pistons and cylinder walls, get the head redone as needed, put some new rings on and your done.

I really don't think this tractor needs that much work to be a good usable machine. If the engine was losing oil, and the pto was busted, and the 3pt didn't work, and the power steering didn't work, and the brakes didn't work, that would be a lot of work to correct...but all you really have is an engine using a bit more oil than you like.

 

[TimS in Mo]

Oh and the cost of the rings, head gasket, oil pan gasket, and some machine work to get the head redone more than likely will be less than 2 monthly payments on a new compact tractor.....

Yes, the tractor dealers have 0 percent interest and all sorts of eye catching stuff...that doesn't change the fact that you are taking on a chunk of debt that will have to be paid for via a monthly payment for a fair number of years.

 

[Katharine]

Hi Tim,

Yep, that's what we think! Besides we don't WANT a "compact tractor" and don't think it is going to be able to do all of the hauling, tugging, plowing, planting and pole barn erecting etc... that we need done around here. They just don't have enough weight to them and in my opinion aren't made like they used to be.

We have also recently ELIMINATED all of our debt and don't want to incur anymore other than our current house payment and incidentals. With a NEW purchase you HAVE to make that payment EVERY month, whether you want or CAN afford to or not. With this upcomming repair, we're of the mind that it's not a pressing issue apparently right now as it has not rendered the tractore useless, so we can pay and repair it when we are able.

A MUCH wiser decision and better use of our hard earned dollars in trying to start-up a small family farm.

Now, does anyone have any good, useable un-wanted implements they would like to sell in NORTHERN FLORIDA??

 

[Jerry/MT]

Here's some remanufactured engines:

www.farmerlink.com/used-parts/engine-blocks.php

 

[RodinNS]

Don't get in a panic about the engine, but don't put it off too long either. There's a calculated risk in running it like that. If you can't afford to deal with it right now for one reason or another, you take the gamble.... but if there's no compelling reason not to deal with it, I wouldn't put it off.

Rod

 

[Anonymous-0]

I purchased a tractor for $100 about 5 yrs. ago. About $1000 later I had a tractor I could use. I do not ever intend to sell this tractor. A friend said that Oil is cheap compared to an overhaul, and he is correct.
When I was a kid, Dad would get used motor oil to put in our Oliver 70. We only used it for pulling trees out of the woods. How much will you use it? Is the smoke obnoxiously excessive? Some people have a need to have things in perfect condition.
The best thing that I have learned from this website is to be more confident in what I want to do. There really isn't a wrong choice, if it is what you want.
SDE

 

[Leland]

well girl what the verdict ?????