Rosebud torch

[Leroy]

Would a #6 rosebud tip be too big to use with my torch. 125 CF oxygen, not sure of size of acetelene tank but what was sold with the outfit?

 

[rustyfarmall]

The size of the acetylene tank will determine which rosebud you can use, if you can use one at all.

 

[Leroy]

How big do I need?

 

[Anonymous-0]

I'd GUESS you have a 75 cu. ft. acetylene. Size of oxygen makes no difference. What do you have to heat? Maybe a cutting tip would be hot enough but if you only need to heat for about a minute, you should be OK. If you have a lot of heating to do, you'll need a bigger cylinder. Look on the net for a chart for your brand of rosebud and it will tell you how much gas it consumes.

 

[Leroy]

Was just wondering, will get by as I have been with it for the last 33 years using the biggest welding tip. This is just what was sold as a standard farm torch at that time and at that time I had no idea they made more than one size tank.

 

[forty40]

(quoted from post at 16:49:05 04/20/13) Was just wondering, will get by as I have been with it for the last 33 years using the biggest welding tip. This is just what was sold as a standard farm torch at that time and at that time I had no idea they made more than one size tank.

A #6 tip size designation is not usually a rosebud multi-flame heating head, but a single flame welding tip for oxy/acetylene gas welding or brazing rated by the mfg's recommended metal thickness range. A rosebud is rated in BTU output and it is very important to consult the mfg's operating instructions for the size of rosebud being used. For acetylene, if the torch draws more gas than can be vaporized by the tank, it will draw acetone which can ruin a regulator and the gas hose. Large acetylene or Mapp rosebuds may require manifolding two fuel gas cylinders together. The size of hose is also important, I'd hate to guess how many Mapp or natural gas rosebuds I've seen blown up by welders or other people in the shop when connected up to a too small regulator or hoses or maintenance had reduced the pipe size to the regulator. Too low of a flow will cause the torch to overheat, melting the flame slots which closes them off and the torch will begin to bang like a machine gun, blowing molten brass out the end. This can get dangerous because large tips need velocity to remain cool enough not to melt the head itself. The other problem I've seen on more than one occasion is a natural gas, recessed face rosebud, hooked up to a Mapp tank. Mapp gas has much more BTU/volume, quickly overheating the natural gas rosebud, again with the same "machine gun" melting brass flying results.

Always match the tip size and type with the manufactures instructions. I just bought a new Smith rosebud for the race car shop and even the individual torch head came with the instruction book with tables of information showing which tip goes with which size torch handle.

If the #6 tip is a one hole, single flame, welding tip, it isn't going to be a problem using it on medium duty regulators. I hate to talk down to people, but after all these years in fabrication, I can't believe some of the things experienced welders do and then wonder what happened.

 

[MarkB_MI]

The manufacturer of your torch should have a tip chart which will specify the flow rate of that tip. That's the only way to know for sure how big your tank needs to be.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Rosebuds can be a #6 as well as a welding tip. The
number usually relates to the size of the preheat
holes or the amount of gas they flow. In Victor a #6
heating tip is rather small while a #12 is a big
rosebud. Purox will use a number like 70 which is
how much gas it will flow. I think in CFH but would
have to check to be sure. I've seen some scary
things welders have done too.

 

[Leroy]

I was looking at a Hobart no.6 at TSC and it said Victor compatable, my outfit is the cheaper Victor line. That is all that was on the package. Except that it would work on both acetelene and LP. When I bought this outfit new it came with 3 sizes of welding tips and 3 sizes of cutting tips. Last year during the shortage I bought the LP cutting tips but was having trouble using them. Did not use torch at all over winter and just got out last monday and used some, thought I had over a half tank of oxygen last fall, nod not check pressure in tank untill was done and ready to shut off and gauge was peged at 0 and in picking up hose I felt wind that should not have been there. Checking I found a rodent had put a tooth thru it so had to buy a new hose. And just about everything out there is acetelene only, lp rated at only one store and so high priced could not afford it, that is my gas supplyer and he was one that said didn't think tank would handle one but they cost about $165, that one I seen at TSC was $70 and same tip at Rual King is $30 so Ican't see where the welding shop one would be so much better than the hobart one for way over a hundred dollars more.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

I didn't feel like you were talking down to anyone at all. I found your explanation to be very clear and informative. Based on your description of what can happen when the gas flow is adjusted too low, I think I have to go back to the college welding shop and check the condition of the 1-1-101 cutting tip I was using yesterday. I was in a hurry and I knew that I hadn't adjusted the acetylene flame high enough, but I thought, apparently mistakenly, that I could use it as if it were a smaller flame. My material was thin, and what I really needed to do was to change out the tip for a 00 or 000, but I didn't. After cutting for a short time, the torch started machine-gunning. I stopped using it, although not that very instant, I'm sorry to say, and when I was putting the equipment away, the tip and the nut were too hot to touch without gloves and the torch itself was hot even a few inches down from the tip. I hope I didn't ruin it.

So no, please don't think that you're talking down to anyone. I'm experienced enough that I teach this stuff to people who have no experience at all, and it seems like every day I find out that there are important things I don't know.

Stan

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Hi Leroy,

Stick Welding said something below that I think bears repeating: You might be able to do the heating you need with a cutting tip rather than having to use a rosebud. I always advise artists who think they need to heat something with a rosebud to consider whether they really need that much heat. If it's a large, flat area, they probably do need a rosebud. But if it's lineal material, solid stock or tubing for instance, often a cutting torch provides a perfectly adequate amount of heat at a considerable saving in fuel gases. You do have to be extra careful to keep your hand off the oxygen jet lever, of course, or you can change things in a hurry.

Stan

 

[Anonymous-0]

Stan, you can turn the acetylene down a little but too much acts the same way as not having your pressures high enough on a rosebud. You get backfiring. If you have lots of soot with the acetylene flame, go to a smaller tip.

 

[Leroy]

What I had to try to heat and today I tried and could not get it hot enough to loosen things up is a cast hub with steel spokes in on a 1 3/4" hay rake axle that the wheel is stuck tight on. have been soaking with PB Blaster and had a puller setting on for a few days. Just can't get it to give, Wanted to set it in the other position but the rake will still work if I can't get it to move. Also just wondering why the big difference in price between what I believe is 2 of the top brands.

 

[JRSutton]

Hey Leroy - boy have I been there with those wheels!

I believe it was you that got me past my problem the first time when you told me to hit the wheel IN first.

That's worked on many projects since.

One thing I found on that first rake wheel I did - was that the axle shaft itself was all mushroomed out around the first 1/8 or so of the outer edge. Most likely from the previous owner smacking it to try to get the hub off.

I pushed the wheel in like you said and that got it free - but it still wouldn't come off in the other direction.

But pushing it in did gain me access to the end of the axle - I finally measured it with some dial calipers and realized the problem. It was a slight difference, but definitely wider on the very end.

I used a small air grinder around the whole end of the axle to get rid of the mushrooming.

After that, the wheel popped right off.

Don't know if that'd help you - but I know for me, if I hadn't gotten rid of that expanded area - that hub was NEVER going to come off.

Had a similar problem on another wheel that I couldn't push back - I used an angle grinder on the face of the hub (didn't like doing that, but it did work). I just ground the face (and axle end) flat and brought it back enough to get rid of that mushroom area in the process (like 1/16th of on inch) - if the heat doesn't work, and you're desperate, might be better than junking it.

Good luck.