Yes they use Hex bearings. One of JD's better ideas. Super easy to change bearings as dont get rusted to shaft. Available online or at your closest Deere dealer. Last ones I bought were cheaper at the dealer than on amazon. around $50.
- Thread starter Phil T
- Start date
formerly ny bill
Well-known Member
I use a NH 848 chain baler. It makes 4' wide X wherever you want to stop (I make 4x5 bales). The 848 was the last model of 4' chain baler that NH made before they went to belt balers. It does take 2 remotes, my IH 826 has one remote, so I added a V&M hydraulic multiplier valve. Very satisfied, and an 848 can be bought quite reasonably.
jaoneill
Member
Just ordered some yesterday from "Quality Bearings Belts And Chains" in Kentucky for $20 a pop.......
DanielW
Member
- Location
- Haliburton, Ontario
I agree with others: Can't go wrong with a Deere 435 or newer 4X5 or 4X6 Deere. As long as you have 70+ HP, I would advocate for a 435 or similar over 335. Even if you're only making 4' diameter bales, you can just dial down the size adjustment of a 435/467 and roll 4' diameter. And at least you always have the option to go larger. The Deere models like the 335 and 375 that were only 4' max diameter had a different door latch mechanism that (in my opinion) wasn't nearly as good and could be more temperamental. Still good balers, just not quite as good as the 435/467. Most of the Deere balers from the 35 series onward were very similar construction, so condition would be more important than model. I'd take an older 435 in great condition over a newer 467 in 'meh' condition.
Vermeer also makes good balers, especially if you have less HP to work with. Vermeer has always been great at doing more with less HP. Some of their models had teething problems when they first came out, but any of the 504 Series I or later or any of the 5410's are great balers. Built a little lighter than the Deere's so it's easier to bend a tailgate or throw something out of alignment if you do something stupid like bring a gate down on a bale, but they're built heavy where they need to be, and generally take less HP to pull (a 5410 will make a 4X5 bale easily with 45 HP, whereas a Deere 435 really wants at least 65-70 HP, especially if you have any hills). Have heard good things about the Massey/Challenger balers, but don't have any direct experience like I have with Deere/Vermeer.
Re: The old argument about the hex bearings (this is a common subject of debate on haying forums). In my opinion, the hex bearings Deere uses were/are a great idea. Easy to change, no chance of spinning on the shaft, and allows a little side-to-side movement of the inner shaft. There used to be a lot of argument between the Deere and Vermeer people about them. The Deere people would say the Vermeers went through bearing more frequently, while the Vermeer people said if you look up the spec's of the standard eccentric lock collar bearings used on Vermeer vs. the custom hex ones of the Deere, you'd actually find the Vermeer ones have a higher rating. Both sides were kind of right: The Vermeer bearings did indeed have higher ratings, but they were sometimes more prone to failure. Two reasons for this:
i) Folks often tightened the lock collars the wrong way. Most people know that in 90% of applications with eccentric lock collars, you tighten the collar in the same direction as the shaft rotates. That way if it starts to slip, it will tighten itself. The problem: Several of the Vermeer rolls have the bearing inside the roll, so unlike most bearing applications, the inner race is fixed and the outer race turns. To get the same locking effect, you thus need to tighten the collar the opposite direction that the roller turns (only for the rolls that had the bearings in the rolls).
ii) The hex bearings Deere uses allow the centre shaft to slide back and forth just a little inside the inner race. The problem with the earlier Vermeers was the collars could actually lock too well onto the shaft. When you really stuffed the baler full, the sides of the chamber might flex just a little. Even if it's only 1/32" or so, that's enough to really put a lot of side force into the bearings if they and the shaft are trying to hold it from flexing outwards. Continuous side/axial load is murder to any single-row, deep-groove ball bearing. The Deeres, on the other hand, have just enough ability for the hex shaft to slide such that it wouldn't put any side-load on the bearings.
I wouldn't let any of that influence your decision, however. Any later series Vermeer has a frame built stout enough to prevent flex, so it's no longer an issue. And even if you go with an older series F or G, you can always do what I did: Replace the eccentric lock collar bearings on one side with standard set-screw bearings and use brass set-screws, so the shaft can slip a little on that side if it really has to. And as far as bearing availability: Any Deere dealer should have the hex bearings in-stock, and any decent industrial supply should have or can quickly get the eccentric lock-collar bearings Vermeer uses.
In reality, you probably can't go wrong with any open-throat baler in good condition. Whatever you do, avoid older closed-throat balers (like the Deere 510 or Vermeer series D or earlier).
Vermeer also makes good balers, especially if you have less HP to work with. Vermeer has always been great at doing more with less HP. Some of their models had teething problems when they first came out, but any of the 504 Series I or later or any of the 5410's are great balers. Built a little lighter than the Deere's so it's easier to bend a tailgate or throw something out of alignment if you do something stupid like bring a gate down on a bale, but they're built heavy where they need to be, and generally take less HP to pull (a 5410 will make a 4X5 bale easily with 45 HP, whereas a Deere 435 really wants at least 65-70 HP, especially if you have any hills). Have heard good things about the Massey/Challenger balers, but don't have any direct experience like I have with Deere/Vermeer.
Re: The old argument about the hex bearings (this is a common subject of debate on haying forums). In my opinion, the hex bearings Deere uses were/are a great idea. Easy to change, no chance of spinning on the shaft, and allows a little side-to-side movement of the inner shaft. There used to be a lot of argument between the Deere and Vermeer people about them. The Deere people would say the Vermeers went through bearing more frequently, while the Vermeer people said if you look up the spec's of the standard eccentric lock collar bearings used on Vermeer vs. the custom hex ones of the Deere, you'd actually find the Vermeer ones have a higher rating. Both sides were kind of right: The Vermeer bearings did indeed have higher ratings, but they were sometimes more prone to failure. Two reasons for this:
i) Folks often tightened the lock collars the wrong way. Most people know that in 90% of applications with eccentric lock collars, you tighten the collar in the same direction as the shaft rotates. That way if it starts to slip, it will tighten itself. The problem: Several of the Vermeer rolls have the bearing inside the roll, so unlike most bearing applications, the inner race is fixed and the outer race turns. To get the same locking effect, you thus need to tighten the collar the opposite direction that the roller turns (only for the rolls that had the bearings in the rolls).
ii) The hex bearings Deere uses allow the centre shaft to slide back and forth just a little inside the inner race. The problem with the earlier Vermeers was the collars could actually lock too well onto the shaft. When you really stuffed the baler full, the sides of the chamber might flex just a little. Even if it's only 1/32" or so, that's enough to really put a lot of side force into the bearings if they and the shaft are trying to hold it from flexing outwards. Continuous side/axial load is murder to any single-row, deep-groove ball bearing. The Deeres, on the other hand, have just enough ability for the hex shaft to slide such that it wouldn't put any side-load on the bearings.
I wouldn't let any of that influence your decision, however. Any later series Vermeer has a frame built stout enough to prevent flex, so it's no longer an issue. And even if you go with an older series F or G, you can always do what I did: Replace the eccentric lock collar bearings on one side with standard set-screw bearings and use brass set-screws, so the shaft can slip a little on that side if it really has to. And as far as bearing availability: Any Deere dealer should have the hex bearings in-stock, and any decent industrial supply should have or can quickly get the eccentric lock-collar bearings Vermeer uses.
In reality, you probably can't go wrong with any open-throat baler in good condition. Whatever you do, avoid older closed-throat balers (like the Deere 510 or Vermeer series D or earlier).
Destroked 450
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harned, Ky
Any of the 3 series JD, 530 Heston or 630 series NH will do what you want, but if you have a 50+ pto hp tractor I’d consider the larger 5x4 models that can be adjusted to make 4x4 bales
The 4x5 models are much more common with replacement parts more readily available
The 4x5 models are much more common with replacement parts more readily available
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Look at what's available. Sure you can name any number of "great" or even "perfect" balers, but unless you can convince your dog to poop one out, it doesn't do you much good.
Seems like there are a ton of those Hesston 530 and 540 balers around.
New Holland 630/634/638, and 640/644/648 were good sellers in their day too.
Don't discount the roller balers. You'll come across some oddballs like Krone and Claas. The roller balers make a soft core bale but they are dead simple and will bale fence posts. If all you want is to get the hay into packages and get it off the field, these work fine, and are simple to work on. Just bearings and roller chains. No 79 year old guy trying to climb all over the baler threading belts.
Seems like there are a ton of those Hesston 530 and 540 balers around.
New Holland 630/634/638, and 640/644/648 were good sellers in their day too.
Don't discount the roller balers. You'll come across some oddballs like Krone and Claas. The roller balers make a soft core bale but they are dead simple and will bale fence posts. If all you want is to get the hay into packages and get it off the field, these work fine, and are simple to work on. Just bearings and roller chains. No 79 year old guy trying to climb all over the baler threading belts.
Over the years there is no match for JD balers....proven beyond doubt.....for me anyway and my corral is rainbow colored without respect for any other reason......... I run a 535 JD round baler I have been running behind a 57 PTO hp tractor, I bought for $5k a couple of decades ago, 91 year model and still had a lot of paint on the moving parts and original JD Diamond belts so it had a lot of life left......only parts I replaced/had to replace/thought I had to replace, were packings on the lift hydraulic cylinders thinking they were leaking when the problem was the 3000# pressure control valve....... the thing that determines how densely packed the bale is, kicking out at about 1800# (aout about a $65 solution to that) and had caused me to make sloppy bales.....best baler there is as far as I am concerned. It is a smaller diameter roller for the JD 530, 5x6, 1600# measured bales to name one 5x6 roller that I used to use when doing a bigger operation with bigger equipment before I downsized and retired.....sorta.
I have picked up some last of the baling stragglers, when the field was finishing out, that made only probably 3'x5' long rolls. My 5x4's (not 4x5's as is popular today) from my last summer sudan/sorghum crop weighed in at 800# and my 35-45 HP tractors had no problem handling them when moving and feeding time arrived. I like the long bale vs the 4' short width bales, since my center of gravity is lower and worrying about tip overs on hill sides is reduced......a 4x6 on a hill scares me big time.........just watching them. The problem with the 5' width vs today's popular 4' width rollers is that to stack a pair of bales, side by side on an OTR trailer with the 5's you are in the "wide load" category whereby with the 4's side by side you aren't.
I had this "thing" about thinking I had to do squares as I was thinking about how to run my farm over the years...spent a lot of time and equipment money proving to myself that that was a stupid idea for a guy way up in his senior years, besides all the "weather baling window".....getting the bales put up before it rains n them..... getting high school boys to move the crop was a JOKE! No "old school" boys around here any more, and there is no sweat with rolls. Once you get it rolled it can sit in the field and shed rain like Thatched roofs have been in England for centuries.
HTH,
Mark
I have picked up some last of the baling stragglers, when the field was finishing out, that made only probably 3'x5' long rolls. My 5x4's (not 4x5's as is popular today) from my last summer sudan/sorghum crop weighed in at 800# and my 35-45 HP tractors had no problem handling them when moving and feeding time arrived. I like the long bale vs the 4' short width bales, since my center of gravity is lower and worrying about tip overs on hill sides is reduced......a 4x6 on a hill scares me big time.........just watching them. The problem with the 5' width vs today's popular 4' width rollers is that to stack a pair of bales, side by side on an OTR trailer with the 5's you are in the "wide load" category whereby with the 4's side by side you aren't.
I had this "thing" about thinking I had to do squares as I was thinking about how to run my farm over the years...spent a lot of time and equipment money proving to myself that that was a stupid idea for a guy way up in his senior years, besides all the "weather baling window".....getting the bales put up before it rains n them..... getting high school boys to move the crop was a JOKE! No "old school" boys around here any more, and there is no sweat with rolls. Once you get it rolled it can sit in the field and shed rain like Thatched roofs have been in England for centuries.
HTH,
Mark
mennometis
Member
Saw this ad a couple years ago on ebrandon classifieds. I don't know the author, but pretty funny.
I am also new to round balers but my $600 CAD MF 450 baled its value in hay in its first evening. Needs a heavy, dry windrow to start a bale and is closed throat which has caused a few plug ups since. The 4x5 700 lb bales are perfect size for my small chore tractor. I'm hoping for 100 bales this year. EDIT: The MF 450 requires only one remote and it's a manual tie.
I am also new to round balers but my $600 CAD MF 450 baled its value in hay in its first evening. Needs a heavy, dry windrow to start a bale and is closed throat which has caused a few plug ups since. The 4x5 700 lb bales are perfect size for my small chore tractor. I'm hoping for 100 bales this year. EDIT: The MF 450 requires only one remote and it's a manual tie.
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Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
my opinion is for the 40-50 bales you are going to make each year, hire it custom baled. No parts to buy or repairs or storage. No cost of fuel or wear and tear on your tractor.
That's something I realized when I went from a 530 to a 375. I didn't realize at the time, that the 530 could be set for that small a diameter. I knew it had a variable diameter function, but never investigated it as I was rolling 5x6's at the time. One of the better things about the 375 is that it's shorter and fits under more sheds, and I don't worry so much when rolling on hills.
I replaced some of the roller bearings on my 375 and didn't have a problem finding bearings for the rollers, aftermarket. The tough part was figuring out how to get the bearing out of the tube but I figured that out and a pair of new bearings replaced, working alone, was just a couple hour job.
Problem with custom balers is that they do theirs first, then their high volume regular customers, and then low volume regular customers, then they are finally ready for yours.......problem is....the miserable state that your hay exhibits when they finally get around to doing yours. No thanks.
Keith Williams
Member
- Location
- Wellsville, Ohio
Bruce,
I agree with you. If you want to learn, hire different people with different balers and see which baler you like the bales from.
Texasmark,
I know how you feel, but after a few years of hiring it done, then you can pick a baler that you like after you get burnt a couple times with hay down and the "GUY" skips you to serve someone else or has a breakdown.
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Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Keith
It's been my experience the quality of bale one sees in a field after certain brand baler leaves a finished field doesn't always dictate how good or sorry of a bale a rd baler can make. There are ""rd baler operators & there are tractor steering wheel holders"" that don't have a clue the correct method for feeding a rd baler pickup attachment. Plus a well formed/raked windrow can cause a poor rd hay baler operator to appear to be very good. My experience comes from operating rd balers back when I was employed at a JD dealership when rd balers were first introduced plus over 35 yrs of custom rd baling. I began rd bundling in 1975 with a Hawk-Bilt then JD models 410/510 then JD models 430/530. All relatively newer rd balers that I've been around will make a nice, tight, level bale if operated as designed
It's been my experience the quality of bale one sees in a field after certain brand baler leaves a finished field doesn't always dictate how good or sorry of a bale a rd baler can make. There are ""rd baler operators & there are tractor steering wheel holders"" that don't have a clue the correct method for feeding a rd baler pickup attachment. Plus a well formed/raked windrow can cause a poor rd hay baler operator to appear to be very good. My experience comes from operating rd balers back when I was employed at a JD dealership when rd balers were first introduced plus over 35 yrs of custom rd baling. I began rd bundling in 1975 with a Hawk-Bilt then JD models 410/510 then JD models 430/530. All relatively newer rd balers that I've been around will make a nice, tight, level bale if operated as designed
DanielW
Member
- Location
- Haliburton, Ontario
From a cost/labour standpoint, the sensible thing to do would be to hire it out. But it all depends on what you like doing and how independent you want to be. Let's face it: These forums are primarily targeted towards nutcases like myself who own and work on antique tractors and equipment, who enjoy tinkering and doing things themselves. While it's true that it would make more financial sense to just hire the baling out and save the time/cost of owning/using a baler, if you take that argument to its logical conclusion, those same points would extend to 90% of what folks on here talk about. From a time and financial standpoint, it probably doesn't make sense for most of us to be fooling around with antique tractors nor equipment. You could even extend that to many of our farming practices: If getting the most value for your time vs. labour was the only concern, I'd probably be further ahead working at Tim Hortons than I would be farming.
If neither haying nor equipment maintenance/repair is your thing, it's definitely worth trying to hire out. But if you like being somewhat independent and don't mind tinkering and learning, there are worse ways to spend a few thousand dollars and a few weeks of time than fooling around with used haying equipment,
If neither haying nor equipment maintenance/repair is your thing, it's definitely worth trying to hire out. But if you like being somewhat independent and don't mind tinkering and learning, there are worse ways to spend a few thousand dollars and a few weeks of time than fooling around with used haying equipment,
mennometis
Member
As far as baling goes, I'm a "tractor steering wheel holder", but as for mowing and raking, I'm pretty good and my bales turn our great with an old MF 450. I won't apologize for that. My point, and maybe you alluded to it, is that the front end of the haying operation is critical. In contrast, can the best "rd bale operator" still make a good quality bale out of a poor windrow? I wonder.
Destroked 450
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harned, Ky
I’ve only been making round bales since the early 90’s, NH bar baler, Heston 5545, NH 640 and present NH BR7070
If raking narrow windrows the baler operator makes the bales as he weaves back and forth
With wide windrows layed side by side with a bar rake or with a v rake the rake operator makes the bales, if they are in the hay making good even sided windrows you’ll have good bales, if they run half of one side out of the hay trying to pickup a few strands of hay you’ll get twice as much hay on one side of the windrow and end up with wedge shaped bales
The issue can be solved with a general conversation explaining the issue and how you need it raked, followed by a more direct and sterner conversation, if those don’t work it’s time to fire the rake operator, or gently tell your wife that it would probably be better if you just did it yourself
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LOL!! My advice...start by telling the wife that it's best if you did it yourself. Mine would be ever so grateful.
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