Running Rake Backwards to Ted Hay

[DanielW]

Hi folks,

I do a small amount of hay (just over 30 acres). I don't have a
Tedder, and seldom have need for one, especially as I'm now
using a rotary take that does a great job fluffing up windrows.
There have been a few occasions, however, where a Tedder would
come in handy.

I was thinking about our old Allis takes that had a two-speed
gearbox and a second PTO input; they could reverse the reel
rotation direction to act as a tedder. They weren't perfect, but
did a pretty decent job. Pretty sure New Idea had a similar
rake/tedder combo. We sold the Allis takes several years ago;
they were a good design, but built far too light/flimsy for
getting beaten up around our rough and rocky Canadian Shield
fields.

I do still have a Massey 37 six bar side-delivery rake
collecting dust. These were very stout takes, and this one is in
great shape. Looking at it the other day I realized that two
roller chain idler sprockets and a longer length of chain would
be all that's required to wrap the drive chain around the other
side of the reel sprocket and drive it backwards to ted.

Is there any merit to this idea, or am I off my rocker?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

 

[Charlie M]

I've got a couple of the old NI rakes I use to run for tedding. Definitely not as good as a tedder and hard on the rake. I broke a few bars and tines doing it. Didn't help the the rakes were as old as they were. I finally got a small tedder and it was the best thing I ever did for hay. Rakes just fluff the hay a bit, a tedder spreads it out.

 

[Willow Lane]

I grew up with one of those old Allis rake/tedders. The big problem that I can see is that you won't be able to tilt the teeth properly. When you shifted the gearbox from rake to ted, you also had to tip the teeth and even then you were bending them the wrong way and it would shed teeth. So your question, Will it work? the answer is probably, but plan on replacing teeth and changing your drive sprocket a few times until you get the speed right. It's been 50 years so I don't remember for sure, but I think it turned faster for tedding than it did for raking.

 

[mijohn]

Not at all, when I was younger my dad would have me run our New Idea hay rake as a tedder over the windrows after they would get rained on. Done it at least once every year or so. good luck, john

 

[1946 BN IHC]

just a quick fellow to a fellow Canck from Will at Thamesford Ont. Where are you located on the Canadian Shield [approximately] We sometimes stay at our EMCC camp at Stainer near Collingwood. text number 5196150412. Wm.

 

[DanielW]

Thanks all for the replies. Willow Lane has highlighted some good concerns: getting the tooth angle right and increasing the speed. They're the rubber style of tooth, not the torsion-spring style. Not sure if that would make things better or worse.

I'd forgot about the angle adjustment on the Allis. There's some provision on the Massey for basket angle adjustment, but I doubt I could get them angled back as far as the old Allis rakes went.

Speeds I could play with by using different sprockets, though (as mentioned) there might be some trial and error. This being a 6 bar rake vs. the Allis's 4 bar might help a little, but then again the Allis might have already have had to run fast as it only had 4 bars, so maybe 6 bars is worse if the factory reel speed is slower...

Also a good point by Charlie M about beating the rake up. As I recall, those Allis rakes would smash pretty aggressively in tedding mode, and we seldom tedded with them for that reason. Perfectly smooth land was ok, but any kind of roughness would start peeling off teeth like crazy.

Maybe I'm better off looking for a tedder. Unfortunately this isn't a big farming area and not a lot of equipment for sale nearby; I doubt I could find one within a 4-6 hour driving radius at least. Not impossible, just a little more irksome.

 

[flying belgian]

Glad to hear the good report on the rotary rake. I just bought a new Kubota.

 

[rrlund]

Just take the side gate off the rotary and go faster. I'll sling it out there a long ways.

 

[MSS3020]

Ive had the same idea looking at my old rake.. but always figured hay would gum up on the rake running backwords.
I will say I bought the vermeer TD 100 last spring.. dont need very often BUT when I do its great.. Where I live I dont have a problem with hay drying BUT with high humidity I can ted it and take a few hours off my drying time. Reason I bought is Ive had hay dry to bale and get that 10% chance of thunder shower over my field.. this thing is awesome and helps alot.. Makes a mess tossing the hay BUT I hae a V rake which has no problem putting it back in row..
Im small like you as I do only 40 acres or so.. but clients are horse folk so good hay is a must..

 

[chcase]

Sorry I can't help but am lucky to have 2 old AC rakes my dad owned since the 1960,s In light to medium hay you put the rake to the Tedder option and go. Amazing it still does a great job after all these years.

 

[Tim in New York]

Old farmer I worked for in the 70's always tedded his hay with the iron wheel, ground drive side delivery rake. I have no idea what brand it was. Seemed to work just fine.

Tim

 

[tom upton]

Heh Daniel: I have used both an Allis rake and a ground drive Tedder/fluffer, and I can tell you the tedder is leaps and bounds ahead of the rake for tedding rained on hay etc. I don't have a pic of tedder and its probably buried in snow at the moment, but here is a pic of what it does for a beat into the ground swath of rained on hay. I have 2 sheets of aluminum mounted to the back so the wind does not play havoc with hay when it is going up off the tedder. Round baler works well behind a tedded row as well. Makes a nice square shouldered bale as I guess windrow is spread out and fluffed up so it seems to pack into baler much tighter? This being said we had an situation once with an IH baler that it packed in so tight we had to pull bales out of chamber with chain! No issues with JD 435, it just makes a better bale behind tedded hay. If you watch the auctions I dont think you would have a problem finding a good used unit.

These bales were made with the 435 from single relatively light windrow cut with the 479 and tedded once after it got rained on.

 

[rankrank1]

I do know a guy that used to purposely re-route the round belt the wrong way to tedd with his New Idea 402 style rake (i.e. The rakes that look similar to NH 55 style rake but the New Idea uses a round belt drive instead of a gearbox). He would install the belt wrong to tedd and then install it properly to rake. Small time operator who made 1 tool do 2 jobs which is key for a small time budget operator. He was doing this decades before tedders were as prevalent and common as today.

I would say your idea definitely has some merit. Only 1 way to see how well it works.

 

[diesel fumes]

we use an old nh hay conditioner for hard to dry or rained on hay .works on previously raked hay also.it sqeezes out moisture and also fluffs the hay up.

 

[Bud Sather in MT]

I use a hay fluffer. I picks up the hay, with a picker like a baler, moves the hay to the right and sets it back on the dry ground. I really like it and you can move at a rapid pace as it is hydraulic driven to match your ground speed. Great to bale those windrows. Bud

 

[showcrop]

We started out with one of those Allis Chalmers reversible rakes. After two weeks we went and got a tedder. The AC rake as long as it is was missing way too much.

 

[randy hall]

Yes, the old steel wheeled rakes could ted also but they won't like it. the basket goes about a hundred miles an hour and things start to come apart. they probably held up better eighty years ago when they were new.

 

[Leroy]

How fast would you be trying to travel for the basket to have that type of speed??? Remember they were designed for horse speed of about 2 1/2 MPH for average horse and that the basket does not spin fast enough to do any dammage. Sounds like you would be trying to travel at the speed new rakes are designed for. I personaly used one for years with no problems before I started rebuilding usuable rakes out of junk rakes that I could find using parts from 3 or more rakes. So I do know those old rakes prety well, and tractor speed on newer tractors is what you DO NOT WANT.

 

[rankrank1]

The OP rake will not run any faster in reverse if he flips that chain. It will simply run the same speed as it does in forward. Same as the guy I mentioned that ran purposely installed his belt backwards to make his New Idea model 402 belt drive run the basket backwards for tedding. The basket bars will run the same speed as forward in these 2 unique scenarios as no gear ratios are changed in any way on the rake... Only a rotation direction change for the bars.

The OP's rake or the New Idea I mentioned are much newer rakes and will be fine traveling at whatever normal raking speed is for them which will be much faster than the old steel wheeled relics from long ago. I have never used either of these rakes but I am guessing 5 to 6 mph would not be out of the question for normal conditions and I would think 4 to 4.5 mph would be an absolute worst case speed in heavy crop conditions.

Will it be as good as a modern dedicated tedder costing thousands? Probably not is my guess, but I bet it does way better than most think it will and will be valuable for anyone who lacks a tedder. In the OP's case it is nearly a free mod to try costing only a little bit of chain and another masterlink to do it so maybe $20 total. On one of the New Idea round belt drive rakes like I mentioned it is totally free to do it...simply re-route the existing round belt. Either is easily returned to original if not liked.