rural home water from a pond?

[JML755]

I'm prepping my rural property for building a home in the next couple of years. Mainly clearing the woods for a septic field right now and looking at getting a well drilled. I've looked at the well records for neighbors within a half mile or so, contacted a drilling company and cost looks like it'll be about $3200. I've also talked to some neighbors about well water quality. Most say they use filtering systems for drinking and softeners are normal. So I've got a pretty good idea what I'll end up with.

However, I also have a 4+ acre pond that is pretty clear, 8-9 ft deep at its deepest. I've calculated probable water consumption and I wouldn't come close to running it dry in 10 yrs if it never rained/snowed again. I've owned the property for 8 yrs and the pond has dropped less than a foot in the dryest year and rebounded the next pretty quickly.

My question: Do any of you guys get your household water from a private pond or lake instead of a drilled well? I've looked into systems that will filter/chlorinate pond/lake water directly and the cost is pretty reasonable compared to drilling. I've seen a publication (out of Missouri, I think) that discussed how to have a well/cistern filled with sand for filtering that also sounded interesting. I'm in SE Michigan.

 

[Anonymous-0]

we have dugout water up here at my place, you have to take care of them! If I could get a well drilled for 3200 I would jump at that, I would have to pay about twenty thousand to get one drilled around here.

 

[jackinok]

had a good friend once who did this out of a lake,he said overall it was far higher in cost than operating a well because of the chemicals and things he used. state came out one day and pulled all the system out of the lake,said while the property was his the water wasnt,or some such thing. you may check before you sink a lot of money into it. folks are getting pretty crazy about water rights and things these days.

 

[John A.]

JML, NO! Why do you want to get your drinking water from a farm pond where Cows and other wildlife pee and crap in the water????????
If you do not want to pay for a well!! Then Look into Rain water collection from your largest Buildings. Average,, a 3000 sq ft. house will collect about 1000 gallons on a 1 in rain. So the Big Boys out around San Angelo, Tx say! A Farmstead needs a tank of about 30,000 to 40,000 gallons to be self sufficient even in a drought and your drinking water doesn't have cow and other wildlife Crap in it!!! Drill the well and look into getting a large storage tank to be in place when all goes South!.
Later,
John A.

 

[Russ from MN]

$3200 is cheap for a well. Drilling a well is a necessary gamble for most rural people.

 

[DaveK(IN)]

I have a friend who has gotten his domestic water from his.
Pond for 20 years or more. he bought an off the shelf
purification unit that uses household bleach. I"m sure you can
google information. They have had no trouble with it that I
know of.

 

[Sean Feeney]

A lot of hoses use Lake George in NY for water have a UV system with several filters, they have been doing for many years.

 

[Billy NY]

Yes, not here at home, but 30 miles north, at a residence that was part of the farm there, is a relative, a WWII veteran, bomber and fighter pilot, who gets domestic water from a pond adjacent to his house, not used for any livestock or accessed by anyone. Wells in this area or within this 50 acre place are just not productive enough, I think we have 3 driven or drilled wells, one has good cold spring water but it will run dry with heavy use, the others are ok, I honestly don't get the water situation there, seems to be a fair amount of sulfur and I think iron, judging by the water buckets.

Back to the question, he has a neat filtration system, pond gets covered with millfoil (Sp?) too, but the water is fine, every once in awhile you have to clear or check on the pick up, he still wades out, but I have done it for him. At first glance it just kind of turns a person off, but, he drilled one or 2 wells, they just could not produce.

The better idea, in this geological array of sand, clay and shale, was a 10' foot deep hole in the shale, or where the older deteriorated layer starts, was to place a filter fabric covered perforated precast round structure. 2 sections high with a lid it fills with 1200 gallons and if pumped out fills at a rapid pace, clean cold filtered water without the sulfur, and it produces even in the driest of weather, none of the wells can produce like that and there must be about 5 wells on this place. Thats what he should have instead of the pond, you just have to make sure and backfill over the top cover, we did not and you can get sediment, snakes squeeze in under somehow and can drop down in, die etc., if that was not an issue, I think it would test fine. Easy to shock, think it was a 1 1/2 gallons of chlorine to shock it and sanitize which I used to do. Its not much different than a stone lined hand dug well, sometimes deep is not the answer it seems, here they range 250'-300' and you can have annoying levels of sulfur or traces I have the latter and use a softener, never runs dry, or I've never pushed it in dry weather.

 

[David G]

I would think it would be more prudent to put in a sand
point, if you have sand, and let that do the filtering. A pond
intake would require filtering and chlorine injection / UV
filtering.

I am lucky, have a 300' drilled well and soft water. I live in
clay hills that were made by glaciers and have a layer of
water bearing gravel under that which is fed by a stream
about 1/4 mile away.

 

[paul]

Only cities can pull drinking water from surface waters, prive sytems are either banned or will be soon - the way of progress.

I'd look through state & local laws on that real closely before planning on it.

A sand point near the pond as someone mentioned would at least be a step up? Or a shallow well if those are allowed in your area, just need to get below that water table that is obviously there.

--->Paul

 

[rustyfarmall]

(quoted from post at 06:17:42 09/20/12) I'm prepping my rural property for building a home in the next couple of years. Mainly clearing the woods for a septic field right now and looking at getting a well drilled. I've looked at the well records for neighbors within a half mile or so, contacted a drilling company and cost looks like it'll be about $3200. I've also talked to some neighbors about well water quality. Most say they use filtering systems for drinking and softeners are normal. So I've got a pretty good idea what I'll end up with.

However, I also have a 4+ acre pond that is pretty clear, 8-9 ft deep at its deepest. I've calculated probable water consumption and I wouldn't come close to running it dry in 10 yrs if it never rained/snowed again. I've owned the property for 8 yrs and the pond has dropped less than a foot in the dryest year and rebounded the next pretty quickly.

My question: Do any of you guys get your household water from a private pond or lake instead of a drilled well? I've looked into systems that will filter/chlorinate pond/lake water directly and the cost is pretty reasonable compared to drilling. I've seen a publication (out of Missouri, I think) that discussed how to have a well/cistern filled with sand for filtering that also sounded interesting. I'm in SE Michigan.

Any possibility of hooking up to rural water? It solves a whole bunch of problems.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

JML,
There is a fungus or bacteria in ponds that can kill you. Also heard there is a larva that can go up your nose and eat your brain. Someone just recently died from the bug. Drill baby Drill. Your water level should be close to the level of your pond. No filters or chemicals to worry about with a well.

Make sure well is far from pond too. I know a person who's well is 30 ft from a pond and his water stinks, looks like mud, and has methane gas in it.

George

 

[Anonymous-0]

Using a pond for drinking water is common in my area (Northwest Ohio) I pull from a 1/4 acre pond and am happy with the water. My system consists of a submerged intake with filter, jet pump with pressure tank, sand filter with timer that automatically backflushes on a settable schedule, sodium hypochlorite (bleach) injector pump and bleach tank (an ultraviolet disinfector can be used instead), and two settling tanks. The water is very clear and soft. In this area well water can be very hard with lots of iron, lime, and/or sulpher.

 

[bradley martin]

We draw our utility water from a pond, through a gravel filter bed, also use a water softener. We get our drinking water from a 40' dug well, which will run dry during an extended drought.When the dug well is getting low, I use the water wagon to draw 8 or 10,000 gallons from the pond and dump on the lawn surrounding the well. yes, we maintain 2 separate pumping and distribution systems.........cold water at all sinks is well water and everything else comes from the pond. We test both systems periodically and so far have had no problems. We live in an area that has 2-4' of sandy topsoil over 200' of clay and then rock.Drilling into the rock gets very strong sulphur water.

 

[Wile E]

If you have surface water from a pond then you can die from many parasites. I would drill a well. What is $3,500 when you are talking $ 200,000 to build.

 

[Brad Buchanan]

In reference to the cost of the well you might inquire about what equipment the driller is using.

If the driller is using a rotary drill he will not make any money if the well is less than 100 feet.

if you can find a driller using a cable tool rig (pounder) you MAY save a good bit of money.

Brad

 

[oldtanker]

First thing to do would be to check the laws and codes in your state. Then if legal take water samples in and have it tested.

Then add in the cost of digging in a water line deep enough to draw from the bottom center of the pond so that you don't have freeze up problems in the winter. Depending on where you are at in MI an 8' pond could freeze solid. That could be a problem.

Then to be on the safe side any water I drew from a pond would have to be boiled or chemically treated before being consumed......may be cheaper in the long run just to have the well drilled.

Rick

 

[GVSII]

(quoted from post at 06:52:13 09/20/12) A lot of hoses use Lake George in NY for water have a UV system with several filters, they have been doing for many years.

I know of many summer camps on Lake George in NYS useing straight lake water for domestic use with the only filtration being the screen on the foot valve at the end of the pipe. No one had any health issues.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Agreed.

8' isn't very deep and if you have a cold winter after a dry summer 6' isn't near deep enough in Kansas, let alone MI.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Check with your county Soil and Water Conservation office if you have one.

 

[old]

I sure as heck would not use a pond for water if in fact it is a pond. If a true pond it is filled with run off water so the quality of the water would be poor at best and also think about how many animals do there thing in the run off area and what is there from that. Now if spring feed and has an outlet then it is not a pond but a small lake and even then the only way I would do it is if I tapped into the spring it self

 

[ShadetreeRet]

I would ask a lot of questions about the price. Do they guarantee a good well for that price? Some well drillers will either quote a price but you take what you get, or so much per foot and guarantee a good water supply. I had a 6" well drilled 34 years ago, they hit water at about 50-60 feet, but said that it would not be dependable unless you went through rock. I think they drilled about 100 feet until they hit rock and another 90 through rock. They certified the output at 10 gallons per minute and I have always had more than a sufficient supply. Water came within 12 feet of the top. Back then the total cost was less than $1400.00.

 

[wisbaker]

If it is legal (and I don't know that it is) you'd have to run
what amounts to a water treatment plant to insure you kill the
pathogens you'll find in surface water, mess up on the operation
and it would be pretty easy to die. Then there is the issue of
navigable surface waters, if someone, like say the Army Corps of
Engineers, decides it is a navigable body of water than you have
to get their permission to do anything with their water (yep-done
seized YOUR riparian rights with out due process). Next question-
are you borrowing money to build this house? Better ask the bank
if they'll consider financing a house with pond water. Pond water
is different, they don't like different.If they give you a
favorable decision get it in writing with clauses that'll protect
you when they change their mind. Last you're in Michigan well
water for the most part in Michigan is easy, plentiful and cheap.
I really think with a well you'll have cheaper cleaner water and
should you ever have to sell the place or finance it you might
actually be able to do it and it limits your need to deal with
the Army Corps of engineers, while they aren't real MLBHs (Major
League Bxxx Holes)like say Homeland security, the IRS or BATF
they are still a bureaucracy, when you deal with bureaucracies
remember snake wisdom "you mess with snakes long enough you'll
get bit".

 

[JML755]

Thanks for the replies so far. To answer some:
- The cost is not the big concern, it's the quality (hardness, iron, sulfur) that I'm after. The driller I contacted has drilled just about every well within a mile radius and knows the geology well. Quoted me a price/foot ($18)+ all the other stuff needed. I used an average drill depth (120') from all the wells in the area. Looking through the well records, the various depths for different strata were pretty close to each other from well to well and they all hit the water bearing gravel at about the same depth.
-Thickest I've seen the ice is less than a foot in the winter. It's got a lot of fish and I'm not afraid of it freezing over.
- Shallow wells are not allowed, couldn't just drive a point.
- yeah, I'm planning to talk to the County Health dept about regulations but I'm looking for feedback from "real" people, i.e. you guys.
- The township does have a water system for the portion that is more developed but it's too far away to hook up to.
- I'm lookiing at something like Abdy describes.
- Yeah, the chemicals do add cost but it might be worthwhile to get water that doesn't stain or smell that's soft.-
- The possibility of health problems from parasites is probably the biggest negative I've heard here. That is something that I would definitely want to make sure is not an issue.

Thanks guys.

 

[ShadetreeRet]

I feel that wisbaker has the best advise of any! Other than possible health hazards, the financial and business considerations come into play big time. Even if you were allowed to use pond water, should you for any reason, put the property on the market at a later date, it is very unlikely that someone else would buy it without a well. Which could throw a very large monkey wrench into the works at a critical time.

 

[jackinok]

funny you should mention nagativable waters.heard a state lawyer speak a couple of months ago on farm issues and someone asked this question .his reply, "if a duck can land on it its nagativable".states reasoning? boats go on water,ducks go on water, they define nagativable water as water that can support commerce.since duck hunting brings money into the state,and ducks cross state lines,any place they can land puts that water in this category! honest truth!

 

[old]

In Missouri they say if you can float a boat down a stream at least 9 months out of the year it is navigable but if your floating that stream you can not touch any of the land on either side or your trespassing. Have run into problems like this on a creek I have that is in fact no way near navigable and that is where the trespass problem comes in and people not knowing the laws

 

[Anonymous-0]

We grew up using water from a stock dam. Never got sick from drinking the water. Guess we were just used to it. We now have rural water. Such a blessing. Back to the dam though, I have seen the ice up to 4 feet deep on it, so your suction line needs to be at least deep enough so it doesn't freeze up. Also, your consumption of water will be minimal compared to the evaporation you will get on a hot day. So if you think you might have a couple million gallons of water and it will take this many years to use a couple million gallons, evaporation will take MUCH more. The only "filters" we had were a window screen on the suction line, and a screen type filter in the pump. No chemicals either. Don't think I would want to go back to it either. Lot of maintainance on the system, and it was never at a convienent time.

 

[jackinok]

we got water from a spring years ago,no treatment other than boiling drinking/cooking water. but water quality has changed a lot since them too. for myself,the up keep on a system would be a big factor , simply the time involved would be hard for me to justify. but if you can do it, and not put it off when needed i see no problems. i agree with what someone else said though about working with the loan company.couple of freinds here have refinanced lately and had to jump through all kinds of hoops just getting wells tested. dont over look the water resources board, and maybe even the wildlife folks when you check. the health dept really wont be you have to deal with in lots of cases. i am just guessing here,but i would plan on fencing this pond,away from animals and people. doing a ongoing elimination of beavers ,nutria etc that can carry some really bad stuff.overall a well would be far SAFER simply because it could be sealed.mechanical systems regardless of what they are are prone to failure,power outages that even last for a few minutes can allow polluted water into your system ,and youll not even know it until your violently ill. too many maybes for me to deal with if theres another option.but like i said weve done it.

 

[JML755]

somehow the price per foot ended up as an emoticon, it's $ 18

Regarding the navigable water issue. The pond is entirely on my property with no access by anybody (unless they're trespassing). There is no fertilizer being applied anywhere near it and no livestock near it as well.

Regarding resale/financing, worst case is I would have to drill a well if I sell and that became a show-stopper. And since this is a retirement place, it'll probably be my kids' problem

Regarding the parasites, why wouldn't the aquifer contain those as well? My guess is because it gets filtered as it migrates down. One of the systems I read about uses a sand-filled tank as a filter (no different than water filtering down to a well) and the ones I've seen that don't use sand use several different sizes of filters (20,5,.35 micron) in addition to a retention tank, UV device, purifier, chorinator. Basically it's a water treatment plant.

Next step is to talk to the County Health Department. should be interesting.

 

[Kansas Cockshutt]

The obvious answer to this is to dig a shallow well adjacent to the pond so that the pond influences the shallow well itself; that is how it was done in the old days around here. No need for a high dollar deep water hole drilled. Still get the benefit of "earth filtration" for all the bad bugs, but the well will be replenished by the pond if there is no readily available or cost-prohibitive groundwater. Depending on the geology of your area this may not be feasible however.

 

[wisbaker]

The sand filters and even RO systems are not fool proof. I few years back
here we had a rash of illness and a few deaths from cryptosporidium in
Milwaukee. Milwaukee gets it's water from Lake Michigan, even with the
filtering, treating and settling it got through. Navigable waters- it
doesn't matter if you own all the land around it if it's declared navigable
the Army Corps of engineers owns it, look at your tax bill are you paying
taxes on it? One of the 40s I tried to buy in Michigan had an open drain on
it, it was listed in the legal description and the township accessor had to
reduce any per acre assessments or levys by the surface area of the drain.
Even if you're not fertilizing or running stock you still have to deal with
wildlife and fowl using you water. Try shooting a deer that's pooping in
your basin and see what the DNR/ warden thinks about it, and don't even
think about ducks or geese. When I did waste water operating most of the
time fecal coliforms down river from me it was caused by dead animals,
usually wildlife laying in surface proximity to the river. You don't have
these problems in wells from the filtering action of the soil AND water in
the aquifer usually doesn't have enough food for the pathogens to exist.

 

[jackinok]

the nagitavable water issue coming into play ,depends simply on how your state defines it.water,all water, is becoming a HUGE issue.many states are redefining water right issues.doesnt have to be livestock.beaver,nutria,some types of turtles,have been known to cary diseases and organisms not killed by normal means. in all reality you THINK you own the land,just look at all the laws regarding what you can and cannot do on your property.
not talking about resale and refinancing neccesarily .just make sure IF you financed this project, that the outfit you got your financing through is ok with this. NORMALLY they will not let you change from accepted policies. if they did you could borrow the money for a 4000 sq ft home and put up a portable building.
aquifer can become polluted,check the laws regarding distances from septic systems etc.
health dept is a start, BUT local water conservation boards will shut you down in a heartbeat,wildlife dept may have rules governing wetlands,etc. local state and federal laws MAY come into play in ways you can only dream of. i personaly have been fined(and treatened with fines) of $1000 a day ,for simply raising the level of a lake on my own property. any state built pond,or one built with state assisted funds are subject to inspection and the laws regarding the use /control of them are very strict.
all i am saying is know for SURE where you stand, before you start this.Its by no means a cut and dried deal where this is mine and i can do as i please. of course you could drill a well and install a water system with the capabilty of switching in the future.

 

[jackinok]

one thing really affecting water usage now,is simply ANY pipe running into a deal such as yours,could be concievably used to purposly pullute/poison water down stream. even though your pond is totally on your land, drainage is all from your land ,it could over flow. if that water runs into any stream that empties into a lake miles down stream thats used for a water supply elsewhere., it could be used in a biological attack. even if you had a very good system that somehow back flushed,levels of toxins could build to a point where even though your system handles it any person downstream can be affected.like i say theres lots of things involved,and the rules are becoming more and more strict daily. been there done it.argued it, even fought it in court once. whats safe in all reality and whats some how even remotely considered unsafe by any stretch of the imagination,will in my experience be decided as unsafe these days.

 

[jackinok]

heres another ,most of us enjoy our grandkids or greatgrandkids over at least occasionaly.that means your system cannot be sized for just you and your wife ,in my case i have six grandkids their parents,and soon to be their spouses/and great grandkids.what happens to your water filtration / treatment system when its overloaded or exceeds its capactity?. in my case i would have to install a system at LEAST capable of ten users just for current use.And a reserve capacity of more.again not a simple cut and dried system and one that becomes more and more expensive to install/operate as you add capacity.

 

[Gordon in IN]

I would recommend that you get the well drilled before the prices
go up and before you start building anything. Just my opinion.

 

[Hal/Eastern WA]

I would drill a well and plan on using a water softener and iron filter and submersible pump system for the house and buildings. If the water isn"t good to drink, I would add a reverse osmosis system or buy bottled drinking water.

It is possible to use surface water for a home, but to be safe, you will have a bunch of money invested in filters and their replacement cartridges and also for chemicals and UV treatment equipment. My brother uses water from a mountain creek, and runs it through an elaborate system. But there is no one above him on that mountain and the property is heavily treed. In our area, you don"t dare drink ANY surface water without extreme treatment, as there is a large chance that it is contaminated with Giardia cysts. Giardia will make a person horribly sick--a friend of mine lost 40 pounds and a month of work after drinking from a high mountain stream while he was backpacking. There are also other possible parasites and infestations that can come from surface water. Oh, and then there is also the "YUCK" factor, especially if there are waterfowl and fish in the water. In my experience, pond water always smells like pond water.

On the other hand, if I owned a year-round pond of that size, I would SERIOUSLY consider using it for the source of heat for a ground water heat pump. You could probably just run plastic pipe around and around on the bottom of the pond and get very efficient heating and cooling for your house. If the pond stays nearly full during dry months, it must be getting replenished by springs.

I also would have a second water system drawing water from the pond for irrigation. I wouldn"t say too much to anyone about that system, because the possibility of it being illegal exists. I would put the intake under a dock to hide it.

Having a pond like that is a fantastic asset! I am truly envious. Good luck!

 

[Mark-Mi]

Two words. Occupancy permit. You will not get one without a approved drilled well.
We built a new house in south east MI. seven years ago. Been through it all, could write a book on it.

 

[randy hall]

it depends on were you live. in the east end of our county there are no good wells. everyone drinks pond and cistern water. we have good well water.