S.O.S.! Can anyone explain this pto problem to me?PLEASE!

[Anonymous-0]

Hello Everyone,
I have what might be a unique question, in my operators manual for my 1850 Perkins diesel, it says that the "Capacity of 540 rpm pto is LIMITED to to 60 hp implements", why is this???
I have a Case round baler that requires at least 70 hp to operate, and I had planned on using my 1850 on it, now it appears that I cannot do this. I don't understand why a 92 pto hp tractor cannot handle a 70 hp implement. PLEASE, could someone help me, and explain why this is? I would be VERY greatful. Also, to follow up, the Hydra shift on this tractor was supposed to be inoperable. It seems to be working fine, I guess I got a better deal than I thought. God bless all, and thanks in advance for you help, and kindness.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Cairo, Missouri

 

[Anonymous-0]

Well 60 Horse Power is about the torque limit of the 540 RPM shaft. In the late 1950's Deere introduced the 1000 RPM power take off. At thsat time they though the 1000 RPM would handle the horsepower rating for future tractors. Since it ran almost double the speed it could handle a larger load.Now does your baler have a 540 or a 1000 RPM shaft? Also when you say 70 horsepower, is that just to run the baler or does that include pulling the baler through the field? 1850 tractors were also available with 1000 RPM PTO's as well as shiftable units that could be changed from one speed to the other speed. I didn't do th math but if horsepower stays the same (92 in your case) and RPM goes up (to a 1000 RPM PTO) the toque load is almost cut in half. FYI for you I worked for a dealer and we sold some 50 series tractors without PTO's to start with. Send me a snail mail address and I can send you more information on torque and horsepower. Now you are probably are really confused. J.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I asked the dealer the same question back in 67 after we bought a 1850 new. I read it in the manual too. They said the 540 could handle anything the motor could put out. Ours was on the dyno after an injector pump was rebuilt and it pulled 105 off the 540 shaft. Our 1850 only had the 540 shaft. We used to cut silage with the tractor and could make the smoke roll, still have the tractor and never had any trouble with the pto. The tractor just has about 3800 actual hours.

 

[Dean Barker]

The "safe" horsepower transmitted thru a 540 shaft is about 60 HP, but there is a reserve such
that you will be able to use your baler.

I bought a used 1750 Oliver with the two speed Hydrapower that would sometimes stop moving when shifted to underdrive. I changed oil in the Hydrapower and installed AGCO universal hydraulic oil and one of the expensive filters, 30-3475425. That seemed to "fix" the problem as the Hydrapower worked perfectly after that for several years. I then traded it off for another tractor.

 

[Anonymous-0]

You might be lucky! I had a 1750 on the dyno once and broke that 540 shaft and sent it flying through the shop door. Could have really hurt someone.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Something else to think about. The boy farms has a 90 Horsepower tractor. We use it on 2 different implements that have a PTO. One is a "ditch bank chopper" probably takes about 45 Horse Power and to pull a fertilizer cart to spread fertilizer with. Takes maybe 20 horsepower. As a farmer traded up to tractors with morse horsepowe that 60 and he kept his old implements that he pulled with his smaller tractor there would be no need to buy the higher capacity PTO because he had no implements that used them. J.

 

[Anonymous-0]

My baler recommends a tractor with 70 hp to OPERATE the baler, not just to pull it. It is a heavy baler, but I pulled it with a MF 256, just didn't operate it with it. My baler has a 540 pto set up, and my tractor has only the 540 pto, and I would rather not have to change both the baler and the tractor over to a 1000 pto, as I imagine that could be fairly costly. J.S., my email is [email protected] . I would sure like to know more about this, I certainly don't want to tear up this tractor, or my baler, but I am confused. Which is unfortunately nothing new. I must be getting old, my brain isn't as sharp as it used to be. Thank you for your kindness and assistance. God bless.
Best wishes,
Jeff
Cairo, Missouri

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks for the info, I have been trying to locate this filter you told me about before, but so far have not been able to locate one. I think my Agco dealer parts person is young and not very informed. When I bought the tractor the seller said the hydra shift didn't work, but I used it just the other day, in somewhat colder weather, and it worked fine. I'm beginning to think maybe he wasn't letting it warm up enough, or something, cause I shifted it in 5th gear with no load and it worked just great. I started out in 5th gear, with the hydra shift, once on the road I shifted to direct and it worked great, I could feel it shift and no noises or hesitation of any kind. The fluid levels are correct, I don't feel any hesitation, I can't figure out what he was having problems with. I still would like to switch the filter over as you said, and change to the Agco universal fluid, I just have to find someone who knows this filter and has one! God bless and thanks again.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Cairo, MO.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hey TC, that's what I would guess, I can't imagine why the 540 pto wouldn't be able to handle more than 60 hp, why would they put such a unit in a tractor with so much more hp to begin with, it does say that the 1000 pto will handle anything, but I don't really want to have to switch both my pto shaft and the baler, which is a 540 set up, over to a 1000, just to be able to use it. I think this could get a bit expensive. My main concern is not wanting to destroy either my tractor OR my baler. So you think I should be ok to use it with the 540 pto, without breaking anything? The baler just says, It recommends using a tractor with at least 70 hp to OPERATE the baler. The baler makes up to 6x6 round bales, if this is ANY help. Thanks again for everyones help and kindness. God bless, your a great bunch of people.
Best wishes,
Jeff
Cairo, MO.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hey J.S., I maybe stated that wrong, the baler says to use a 70 hp minimum to "pull AND operate it", and the guy I bought the baler from used it on a MF 1130 (if I remember right, though I might be mistaken) anyway, the baler is set up for a 540 pto, and a 70 hp tractor is supposed to be enough to pull AND operate it. Thanks again. Sorry for any confusion I caused you. I confuse myself enough, don't want to "spread this disease" around to others. :^)
Thanks J.S.
Sincerely,
Jeff

 

[K. Peters]

I have made round bales using an 1850 and 1650 pulling a Vermeer 504G both tractors work good in my opinion. Not sure what kind of driveline protection Case uses on their balers, either shear pins or slip clutch should protect both baler and tractor from being overloaded. I Think.

 

[Anonymous-0]

My Case 3650 uses a shear bolt also, it weighs 6600 lbs empty, and calls for 70 hp minimum. I just don't see why my tough old 1850 wouldn't handle this. Well I guess I will find out. I will just have to pray that I don't mess anything up and have to kick my own arse! That would be a bummer! Thanks again for the information. Good luck to us all this year, may EVERYONE have a VERY prosperous and as trouble free a year as possible. God bless ALL!
Thanks so much,
Jeff
Cairo, Missouri

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hey Guys, would it make any difference if I pulled it in direct drive vs. hydra shift, or in low? I just have the 2 spd hydra shift, not the over and under, but I'm wondering if using it in one or the other would make any difference, in making it less likely to break something? Would one be better than the other? The ground I'm baling on is flat and not hilly, so at least I don't have THAT problem to contend with.

 

[Bob]

Filter is NO big deal, WIX 51307.

If you've ever seen the LONG skinny PTO driveshaft that runs from the engine flywheel to the PTO, you might NOT wonder why they were a little cautions about how much PTO power you should pull!

 

[super99]

I my non-expert opinion, just hook onto the baker and go make hay. My neighbors have had Vermeer round balers since the early 70's( when they first came out), pulled them with 4020's and AC 200's and even a AC 7050 and never tore anything up. Just make sure your slip clutch or shear pins are OK and go at it. Chris

 

[Kemper]

You will be ok with the baler, most of what their saying is that the pto shaft and clutches are rated for 60 hp and are under rated to say the least, i have used a big round baler with my 1650 and have never tore it up.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thank you very much for that information, I just couldn't understand why they would put such a low power pto in a otherwise wonderful and powerful tractor, I do understand that the shaft is short and not quite as well put together maybe, as the later models, but still, it just didn't make much sense to me. Thanks again for the info. God bless.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Cairo, MO.