safety

[brentp4455]

With the passing of Adam Biehl, its time to talk about safety. He was killed when a cast iron bellhousing exploded. At the same time, i have witnessed rpms go unchecked on antiques. At the Eaton, OH antique pull, i watched tractors running easily past 3000+ rpms. one 560's governor stuck and I nearly dove to the floor as it screamed before it could be shut down. either rpm rules must be truly enforced, or pullers should be using steel flywheels and scatter blankets or scattershields. I don't want to hear about anyone else being killed.

 

[778899]

Amen,have used both and doubled up,have seen them explode,NOT PRETTY. I did it in some cases for my own safety,not in the rules, will lesson my liability in case of an accident.We need to use common sense,these things are 50 plus yrs old with three times the power and rpms.

 

[Robert Major]

Hi
Sorry to here of the loss of life in this way.nothing good will come of this for his family or the event organisers/ spectators on the day that saw this tragedy.
But I hope it wakes up some of these clowns that laugh at guys like me, That understand what happens when this stuff goes wrong.
I was a spectator at a pull this past summer that I was thinking of taking a tractor to this year. Being involved in pulling and asking questions in the pit's at break. I did not feel safe sitting 20ft from the track after, when I found out guys where not running inspected clutches/flywheels under 3000 rpm, or even steel components above 3000 and no scatter blankets or steel belhousing catch plates at any revs.
My decision based on this and other issues I saw was stay home, I want no part of this type pulling and certainly don't want to be in the crowd !
Have you seen the 1206 Inter explode on you tube those guys where the lucky ones a few seconds earlier that lot would of been in the croud or the track marshals.
Regards Robert

 

[Mike Genrich]

I agree, things are getting pretty wild. Rember way back when wheelie bars became the rule? Guys fought it tooth and nail. Its a shame it takes an accident to get peoples attn. My thought is anything over 3000 rpm should at least have a blanket.

 

[RickyW]

I totally agree with you guys on this. The antiques are not made for that!! Bad thing is that when one decides to fly apart its gonna be someones kid or a spectator thats going to get it!!Just hope they can live with it, I know I couldnt!!! Prayers going out to this Family!!

 

[Shawn W]

YUP! Kinda scary when you really think about it. I know one club is going to run open rpms, and open speed. Not even going to require side shields. Doing it just to bring in tractors for the hook numbers.
Doesnt seem right to me, and I'll be over watching from my trailer when those classes are pulling.
Shawn
Not trying to start anything, just my thought.

 

[Anonymous-0]

From what I understand, Adam was working on a customers hot farm tractor fuel pump at his shop when a plunger stuck and the Rpm's went wild. I'm sure he would not have run those kinds of rpm's had that not happened. None the less, if your pulling anything hopped up, a steel flywheel should be a must.

 

[Robert Major]

Hi
Nobody should even be considering anything even close to 3000 rpms with nothing. when I started pulling with a local group it was nothing at 2900 or below above was steel everything and blanket plus inspection and stamp every year.
Then we had to put on 1/2" bell housing plates or scatter blankets for 2900 including side shields. The revs got dropped to 2800 then 2500 with plates or scatter blanket.
Now I believe you cant run anything without the clutch and flywheel being steel above 2500 rpm.
I moved away from that area 13 years ago and have lost touch of rules as they are now.
Basically all i can see happening now with the high price law suits is the days of " say a prayer, open the throttle,dump the clutch, and hope it goes good", are well past being over with at a lot of these run what ya brung junk fest pulls, that some small towns have.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy pulling but for every body involved in any form it needs to be safe and a lot of what I've seen around is not. The prayers must of hit the right place so far or one heck of a lot of good luck has happened that nothing has gone badly wrong .
Regards Robert

 

[Robert Major]

Hi
Out of interest I searched what happened late last night and found that out.was a terrible thing, and could of happened just the same on the track as you say, with even more loss of life.
If that tractor had steel components or blankets it might of given them chance to run like mad.
I wonder if it had an air kill flap and if so why nobody used that to stop it. our rules stated we had to have 2 methods of operation on ours, pull from the seat and from sled cable.
Also later on guys had to put a fuel shut off tap right at the pump inlet with control from the seat, that was pretty quick too in the event of a runaway stuck pump.
I guess there are a whole lot of things we will never hear of what actually was on the tractor from this terrible accident.
In my eyes you can never have too many safety features to cover all the what ifs, something that was not there may of saved Adam or someone else on a track one day.
Regards Robert

 

[D beatty]

It isn't just flywheels. Was at a pull many years ago and 2 John Deere Gs were there and they were wound up. One of them through a fan blade and lucky enough it didn't go out into the croud but it did go through the top tank of radiator and was sticking out the top of the hood. It could have been a real mess if it would have went into cruod.

 

[brentp4455]

im glad to see the support for safety everyone.

lets all go to the clubs and see if we can get them to enforce the rpm rules this year, or perhaps create safety equipment rules where none were before.

 

[Robert Major]

Hi
I'm not gonna hog this topic anymore after this but that's what side shields are for to catch or slow at least some of the bits like fans and motor parts that get a stray during a pull.
Cast water pump and any other cast pulleys with rotating mass can explode the same as flywheels too around 3000rpm.
My old pull tractor still has the 1/4 plate catch guards round all the cast pulleys, and covering the radius of the turbo, plus cross drilled bolts in the muffler pipe to catch parts if it lets go, as well as side shields.
There is a whole lot of stuff to do on a pull tractor once you get above factory tractor rpm's to try and make it safe.
I don't think too many guys and small town event organizers realize this and laugh at us that do know, as I have said before.
Regards Robert

 

[Rwolfejr]

(quoted from post at 18:20:12 03/21/13) Hi
Out of interest I searched what happened late last night and found that out.was a terrible thing, and could of happened just the same on the track as you say, with even more loss of life.
If that tractor had steel components or blankets it might of given them chance to run like mad.
I wonder if it had an air kill flap and if so why nobody used that to stop it. our rules stated we had to have 2 methods of operation on ours, pull from the seat and from sled cable.
Also later on guys had to put a fuel shut off tap right at the pump inlet with control from the seat, that was pretty quick too in the event of a runaway stuck pump.
I guess there are a whole lot of things we will never hear of what actually was on the tractor from this terrible accident.
In my eyes you can never have too many safety features to cover all the what ifs, something that was not there may of saved Adam or someone else on a track one day.
Regards Robert

Curious...
I don't have a smoker or anything too serious but it is still a diesel and I'd suppose any diesel could have the rack stick and run away on you. What I'm wondering is this... If a track has rules for a shut-off or kill switch how do you meet that rule with an old diesel? Or better said... Would my decompression lever qualify? I also read a rule once where the throttle had to spring back to off if you took your hand off it. From what I recall of the 2 cyl. diesel fuel feed system a spring back throttle wouldn't stop a stuck rack? Does someone make some sort of air gate that shuts at some set rpm that I could plumb into my intake?

 

[FactoryFarmer]

(quoted from post at 08:00:29 03/22/13)

(quoted from post at 18:20:12 03/21/13) Hi
Out of interest I searched what happened late last night and found that out.was a terrible thing, and could of happened just the same on the track as you say, with even more loss of life.
If that tractor had steel components or blankets it might of given them chance to run like mad.
I wonder if it had an air kill flap and if so why nobody used that to stop it. our rules stated we had to have 2 methods of operation on ours, pull from the seat and from sled cable.
Also later on guys had to put a fuel shut off tap right at the pump inlet with control from the seat, that was pretty quick too in the event of a runaway stuck pump.
I guess there are a whole lot of things we will never hear of what actually was on the tractor from this terrible accident.
In my eyes you can never have too many safety features to cover all the what ifs, something that was not there may of saved Adam or someone else on a track one day.
Regards Robert

Curious...
I don't have a smoker or anything too serious but it is still a diesel and I'd suppose any diesel could have the rack stick and run away on you. What I'm wondering is this... If a track has rules for a shut-off or kill switch how do you meet that rule with an old diesel? Or better said... Would my decompression lever qualify? I also read a rule once where the throttle had to spring back to off if you took your hand off it. From what I recall of the 2 cyl. diesel fuel feed system a spring back throttle wouldn't stop a stuck rack? Does someone make some sort of air gate that shuts at some set rpm that I could plumb into my intake?

You could easily plumb in a more modern air shutoff on your tractor.

 

[Robert Major]

Hi
On my puller I put an exhaust weather flap over the end of the air intake pipe for the turbo and used a cotter pin, with both pull cables attached to hold it open. Gravity works mine when the pin is pulled. That whole set up I have may not be legal anymore though, Mines sat 13 years and not pulled.
on your tractor you would put it on top of the air cleaner intake pipe or in the air line to the motor I'm guessing.
With the throttle being dead man as they call it, it is just so that as soon as you take your hand off under normal running it shuts down, not like the older tractors where it ratchets in place and stays set with your hand off.
In the event of a stuck rack you need the air kill or tap at the fuel injection pump inlet port. This is controled within easy reach of the seat by a rod or pull cable, to shut fuel off quickly. Meaning it's not having to drain filters and miles of fuel line just whats in the pump housing before it stops.
I have seen turbo diesels blow the turbo seals and run on motor oil sucked in, they rev wild even with the fuel turned off, to stop them you have to kill the air and starve it to stop the motor. I saw a video clip once where a track marshal let a fire extinguisher in the air intake to stop an oil runaway
Pulling can be a whole load of interesting things that crop up once in a while.
Regards Robert

 

[DAVE Thompson jr]

Robert I have built diesel engines for 25 years. Where I work The engine has a hydraulic shut off that immediately shuts down the engine by cutting the air supply when it over revs. There are also shut offs on the pumps in the smaller engines that stop them in an over rev situation. The worst accident I seen was when an engineer was in the test cell showing a customer how a turbo worked and held his hand up by the turbo and it sucked it in and destroyed his hand. It also destroyed the engine.

 

[Robert Major]

Hi it sounds like where you work is a very interesting place, wish I had your job. sounds like they are prepared for the unexpected with run aways.
It's just a shame some of this stuff is not on the pull track in some cases.
My so called uncle peter(my being polite as a kid name for my mums cousins husband) Told me a similar story involving a college teacher doing a similar thing at the Ag engineering school I attended, and loosing a finger.
Regards Robert

 

[Rwolfejr]

Thanks for the information folks...

Another question... To slap a heavy plate over the air supply like the flapper idea or any sort of gate valve etc... Wouldn't you maybe want to have some small hole in it so it doesn't stop instantly? Just thinking that having that much mass whirling around and then to stop it instantly might be almost as bad a situation?

I'd suppose the pistons could suck crankcase air through the breather though? Was just thinking maybe the flapper should leak a little bit?

Again thanks for the info.
Bob