She sat for 2 weeks, now won't start

[Benson Hill]

Guys, hi, and thanks in advance for any advice.

So, I am a real noob when it comes to tractors and the internal combustion engine, in general.

I needed something to haul logs from the woods, so a neighbor sold me a 1945ish Ford 9n 6 volt

It ran well enough when I was testing her out. Drove it home. The carb was leaking, I knew this, but was keen to get stuck in and learn a thing or 2. I was busy with house repair, and let the tractor sit for a couple of weeks. Yesterday I took the carb off, gave it a good clean. The float needle seemed a little sticky. I have a new one on order, but reseated it as best I could and so far, the leaking is drastically reduced/addressed

However, when I went to run her, she just wouldn't bite. Starter works, belt drives the shaft, but no explosion, best as I can determine. I put in new 437, and then 216 plugs, for less resistance and a smaller gap. I also have spark on the plugs.

On 2 occasions, once today and once yesterday it almost coughed into life, very briefly.

I drained the carb, took the plugs out, added some oil to the plug holes, I can feel compressed air coming out of the holes when I turn the ignition on. I even tried warming the plugs with a lighter.

Battery reads at 6.3, so seems fine. It was a new one too, I am told.

So, where do I go from here? What is next on the list of things to try? Seems like a carb/fuel issue?

Can a misaligned gasket get in the way of jet activity?

I have already looked over one or two threads related to engine flooding and hard starting and tried all I could find from those.

Thanks again guys. Really hoping to get her operational soon. I have many logs to haul!

Benson

 

[KristofMI]

Did you open the valve by glass bowl? I will make sure you getting gas to the carb first.

 

[Eman85]

When you removed the spark plugs did they look wet with fuel or are they one dry? Shut the fuel at the tank, remove the drain plug from the bottom of the carburetor, open the fuel at the tank and measure the fuel flow at the bottom of the carburetor. This will show if you have adequate fuel flow. Do you have an actual spark tester? Spark should be able to jump 1/4" gap.

 

[Benson Hill]

Yes, two full turns open.

I just air cleaned the carb again (sonic cleaned yesterday) and changed the oil in the air filter.

3 times I almost had her going. It spurted, barked some exhaust and quit. A step forward anyway

 

[Benson Hill]

I just got a spark tester today. The sparks are new. The old ones looked a little grimey. I'd say the new sparks looked dry when I took em out. Should I clean the fuel line?



This post was edited by Benson Hill on 08/06/2022 at 09:01 am.

 

[Benson Hill]

new development. I seem to be getting combustion now, the engines fires right up, but then cuts out straight away and an awful whining sound from the engine block manifests

 

[KristofMI]

Firing order correct? I think you might have reassembled the carb wrong.

 

[Benson Hill]

Perhaps, I put everything back where it came from. Not sure how to put a carb together incorrectly ?

Please share some tips.

 

[Jim L WA]

Hi Benson, welcome to the world of N tractors. First of all, did you do the fuel flow test that Eman85 said. You should be able to fill a pint jar in about 2 minutes.
Then, no mater what spark plugs you are using, they should be gaped at .025.
Then, have you tried asking the neighbor you bought the tractor from how he would start it. Each tractor has it's own personality on how much choke to use and where to set the throttle when starting.
Another thing. You said the carburetor was leaking during that two weeks. Have you checked the gas tank? When the gas gets down to a gallon of so, you need to open the valve all the way. That's the reserve system, so the farmer could get back to the barn and refill the tank.

 

[Benson Hill]

so I cleaned the main injector and jet again. Now she runs with the choke out, but not in.

Getting closer

 

[Benson Hill]

Fuel flows good, and I am gapped a .025, as you suggest.

Ye, I went over all the quirks of starting before the purchase.

I have her running now with the choke open, but not closed.

 

[Benson Hill]

Ye, I know about main and reserve levels. I just filled her up this morning.

 

[Jim L WA]

(quoted from post at 11:04:51 08/06/22)
Fuel flows good, and I am gapped a .025, as you suggest.

Ye, I went over all the quirks of starting before the purchase.

I have her running now with the choke open, but not closed.

Good, your getting closer. If you have to run it with partial choke, then it's not getting enough fuel or you have a vacuum leak. Where do you have the main jet set at. It should be opened about 1 - 1/2 turns out to start with.

 

[Benson Hill]

I had the mixing jets set to the recommended turns initially. Didn't work at all. Now I'm just having to experiment. I can get a good idle, but only with choke fully out.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

A DEAD BATTERY is likely your true root cause of non-starting. All FORDS were 6V/POS GRN. Just because your battery is 6V do not assume the electrical system is wired
correctly for it. FACT: 99.98% of all non-starting issues are due to mucked up wiring whether 6V or 12V. A 6.03 VDC reading on your battery is a only 25% or less
charge on the battery. You need to take it to local shop and have it tested under load. So, lets back up step. Welcome aboard first of all. Your best investment
now, should have been your first step, is to get all The ESSENTIAL MANUALS and start reading as well on these boards. Mistake #1 was to start replacing parts willy-
nilly without doing any problem solving first and certainly without any roadmap to guide you. Not beating you up just giving advice here. ALL 9N & 2N's were basically
the same from 1940 til end of production in 1946. I'm going to throw out some names of parts on the 9N/2N and see if you know what they are and how they work.

Front Mount Distributor; Coil; Ballast Resistor; Updraft Carburetor; Draft Control; Generator; Cutout Circuit; Starter Motor; Specific Gravity; Neutral Safety
Pushbutton Start Switch; 3-Point Lift; PTO Engage Lever; Hydraulic Lift Touch Control; Sediment Bulb; to name a few major ones. Do you know how to rebuild, test, and
mount a front mount distributor correctly, Do you know what happens if you mount it incorrectly? If you know what these are and how each works correctly, then Ill
move on and shut up. If not, then you have some homework to do and stop buying parts and replacing parts willy-nilly.

You need a strong battery to:
1. Spin the starter
2. Engage the Bendix
3. Provide voltage to the coil.

Start with the battery. A trusty shop is the ticket. Dont think measuring VDC with your VOM is going to tell you if sulfation is depleting cells and the specific
gravity is low. A cheap trickle charger is NOT going to fix a weak or dead battery. You will get float charger once you are all done and up and running correctly.
Battery Tender Jr. is a god one. A cheap bargain house battery is a bad idea average life span is 2 years. Get a good brand GRP1 6V = DEKA/INTERSTATE/DURACELL/EAST
PENN/EXIDE are best. While battery is out, disconnect light, get wiring diagrams, and go thru thoroughly using your VOM set to Continuity and NOT at test light. An
Idiot Light requires power. You do not want to be probing electrical system with live power. Lights were never a factory feature from the Rouge Plant; always a dealer
optional accessory and many were connected wrong. Once all is running correctly you can then reconnect the lights.

OEM FORD 9N/2N WIRING DIAGRAMS; 6V/POS GRN:

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/CJedLEcl.jpg>​

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/iP09xMVl.jpg>​

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/SGwwM6tl.jpg>​

FORD 9N OEM WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR:

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/d0yuVcil.jpg>​

FORD 9N/2N WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR, 12V CONVERSION:

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/Swubdfml.jpg>​

FORD FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MOUNTED OFF 180 DG:

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/eQMN65Fl.jpg>​

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/UwHSwizl.jpg>​

FORD 9N/2N TRACTOR ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERTOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/i2gbSeol.jpg></cen


Tim Daley(MI)​

 

[Den N Ms]

Benson Hill , Do you have the venturi in the carb turned the correct direction.If it is wrong it will cause the problem that you are having.(Venturi is the round tapered brass part about the diameter of a 1/2 dollar) Is the carb bowl gasket good and not broken,also carb mounting gasket.

 

[Benson Hill]

Yes, I double checked this when I cleaned the main injector again. This may have helped.
There was a particle in the injector also.

This post was edited by Benson Hill on 08/07/2022 at 03:47 am.

 

[Benson Hill]

Cool, thanks for the wiring pics

 

[Den N Ms]

(quoted from post at 03:46:10 08/07/22) Yes, I double checked this when I cleaned the main injector again. This may have helped.
There was a particle in the injector also.

This post was edited by Benson Hill on 08/07/2022 at 03:47 am.

Mabe the TPS is defective








lol

 

[redbull]

Are you sure you are getting enough fuel to the carb, sounds to me like you're not getting enough gas to the carb.

 

[Benson Hill]

Ye, bowl fills up nicely. I have a new needle and seat coming, and I will check the float adjustment when installing

 

[lha]

No injectors,just a carburetor.

 

[Benson Hill]

Update!

Put in a new battery, and a new float needle and seat. She wanted to start pretty much right away, but I had do to some dicking with the idle mixture and main adjustment before she fired into life. Drove her about briefly, brought her a stop. Kept fiddling with the adjustments. Managed to keep her running with choke in this time.

I also replaced the resistor and cleaned up all the electrical contacts that ran to it.

There was some back firing it seemed

However, when I let all the throttle off, she eventually sputtered and now won't start again

Do I need to mess with the idle adjustment more do you think? I just set as per recommendations, and did not touch it after that

This post was edited by Benson Hill on 08/14/2022 at 10:32 am.

 

[Den N Ms]

(quoted from post at 10:30:01 08/14/22) Update!

Put in a new battery, and a new float needle and seat. She wanted to start pretty much right away, but I had do to some dicking with the idle mixture and main adjustment before she fired into life. Drove her about briefly, brought her a stop. Kept fiddling with the adjustments. Managed to keep her running with choke in this time.

I also replaced the resistor and cleaned up all the electrical contacts that ran to it.

There was some back firing it seemed

However, when I let all the throttle off, she eventually sputtered and now won't start again

Do I need to mess with the idle adjustment more do you think? I just set as per recommendations, and did not touch it after that

This post was edited by Benson Hill on 08/14/2022 at 10:32 am.

Try the main front down pointed needle at 2 turns open
The side pointing small idle mixture screw 1/2 turn open.
Also the idle adjustment an the butterfly idle stop turn it in some to keep it running.Try starting with the fuel shutoff open 2 - 3 turns.
Will it stay running now,post back your findings.

 

[Nyquil Junkie]

Mabe the TPS is defective

Finding that OBD2 port to pull the codes is nearly impossible. Its pretty well hidden.

 

[Den N Ms]

(quoted from post at 19:29:00 08/14/22)

Mabe the TPS is defective

Finding that OBD2 port to pull the codes is nearly impossible. Its pretty well hidden.

Nyquil ,Yeh I looked for weeks for one once on a old 8N,never did find it.I figured the old farmer that had it before me cut it out of the wiring harness when the wires burned up and he farmerized a new harness ,when he added a 12 volt alternator and the cobbled up mounting brackets. :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll:

 

[Benson Hill]

New carb has made no difference. Same story. I can get her to run more or less first time, under load. Letting off the throttle kills the engine. After that first run, she won't start at all, till the next day, or hours later. A lot of carb valve leakage while trying to turn over the engine also.

New idle adjustment screw is a pain to reach. The old one was finger turnable.

There was a big backfire this morning too.



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