Small acreage profitability?

[will-max dairy]

Carrots could be a good enterprise but once again you need a soil map to know if it is realistic on your land. They want 12-15 inches of loamy but not very sandy soil typically. The processors around here are looking for carrot acreage but most topsoil here is not deep enough for the varieties desired.

Three factors...

location
location
and
location!

Just like real estate.

15 acres isn't very much land... until you try to haul in enough sand, lime or other amendments to fundamentally change soil type...

I would LOVE to grow asparagus... but it's not in the cards, given where I live. You would have to add about 1:1 of sand with the native clay, and install drainage...

And by then, I've spent enough money that I could have bought all the asparagus that our family would ever eat, from somebody in New Jersey, where it grows like a weed.

 

[NY 986]

My brother had a similar relationship with a friend... as in, his friend told my brother that he (his friend) was making 150k a year selling round bales... and he did all the work by himself... while he had a full time job...and went to Florida every winter...

Well...

A. My brother's friend inherited the place.
B. My brother's friend was a contractor for NYS for a very good hourly rate ( more than 100 per hour); and could work remotely in Florida during the winter. He could also cut out at random times on sunny days to mow, rake, tedd or bale.
C. When my brother's friend wanted to "retire"... he offered to sell his business to my brother... at a price commensurate with making 150k a year selling round bales...


My brother thought this guy's operation was the greatest thing since sliced bread; and he bragged to everybody about how smart the guy was and how easy the money was...even telling others of us in the family that we were stupid to raise any animals... just make round bales out the ying yang... roll them down the driveway and money floats back to your mailbox...

Until it was time to buy.

If anybody did a due diligence on the statement of grossing 20-30k per year...

Looking at expenses, including 20-25 per hour for labor... seed, fuel, RoundUp...cuz it aint free, equipment, taxes, maintenance... the net on that 20-30k could be lower than the 1600 that the OP's mom was getting...

Always interesting that know it all's manage to leave out several important details when trying to "help" others.

 

[NY 986]

Three factors...

location
location
and
location!

Just like real estate.

15 acres isn't very much land... until you try to haul in enough sand, lime or other amendments to fundamentally change soil type...

I would LOVE to grow asparagus... but it's not in the cards, given where I live. You would have to add about 1:1 of sand with the native clay, and install drainage...

And by then, I've spent enough money that I could have bought all the asparagus that our family would ever eat, from somebody in New Jersey, where it grows like a weed.

Like I said above the OP needs to get started with a soil map along with an extension agent who is on his side or at least does not have a vested interest with a potential competitor. Let the cards fall where they may. Hopefully, unless somebody was engaged in a fool's errand there years ago that if potatoes were raised there then the potential for carrots might be there. Very seldom does it pay to remake a field in terms of prevailing soil type and I would never advise otherwise.

 

[will-max dairy]

Like I said above the OP needs to get started with a soil map along with an extension agent who is on his side or at least does not have a vested interest with a potential competitor. Let the cards fall where they may. Hopefully, unless somebody was engaged in a fool's errand there years ago that if potatoes were raised there then the potential for carrots might be there. Very seldom does it pay to remake a field in terms of prevailing soil type and I would never advise otherwise.

And I like that advice; because there are ways that people can balance a love of farming with actual farming; but if you put yourself into a no-win situation; (as in... what you love to grow just plain doesn't grow... and you go whole hog into it...) then your love will turn to resentment in a hurry... and THAT would be a shame. Like myself... I would have a little raised bed of asparagus... and enjoy it... but if I bankrupted myself trying to grow 15 acres of it... I probably wouldn't like asparagus anymore.

In these situations, I think about something that was said on an NPR radio show... either "All Things Considered" or something like that... when I used to have a couple of hours of commute every day.

"Buy on the idea. Sell on the news."

Things that are profitable are usually your "idea," well-implemented. If you are buying on someone else's "news;" well, you're often getting in after the market is tapped out.

 

[petertay]

When we bought a 7-acre apple orchard, I asked the seller if it was profitable. He replied, “ Yes, two years out of five. No, two years out of five. Break even on the other year.”

We also heard that if a farmer breaks even, he calls that getting ahead.

 

[jwal10]

I have 1 acre here and 4 acres at the old homestead. I was lucky to retire at 55 with a small retirement. We had always lived simply. It wasn't what I made from both parcels but what I didn't have to buy, and not paying for gas, running to town all the time. I had several goats, chickens, some pigeons for meat and a deer or 2 from the land. I made all my dairy from goats milk. Garden, small greenhouse and what I could forage from the woods. Mushrooms, turkey, squirrels, fruit, nuts and all the fish I could eat from both ponds. We lived very well. Usually shopped once a month. I have always said not what you bring home but what you have left....James

 

[[email protected]]

I'm getting 225 per acre in N/E Indiana. I've cut back the acres leased to 55 and now farm 25 myself again.

 

[thelonepatriot]

For nearly 20 years I sold pumpkins every year, somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000. Over the years I added winter squash, about 400 to 800. I learned when I was looking through the seed catalogs for pumpkin seed to plant the description needed to include "long strong handles or stems". People rarely buy stemless pumpkins. Also grow a variety of sizes. Most kids seemed to prefer soccer ball sized pumpkins if they came to the patch. If I sold from a stand (usually a couple of flatbed trailers) they bought bigger pumpkins for more money. Generally when a carload of kids would stop each one got a pumpkin. When all I had was smaller pumpkins I would get about $10 per carload. When I started growing bigger pumpkins I would get $30 or more per carload. Another thing I did in the later years was grow some varieties that would ripen in August and sell them for fall decorations. Miniature pumpkins and gourds also sell very well. Medium and large gourds that didn't sell were left out in the weather and sold the next year as dried gourds for painting and as rattles to the local Native Americans.

Every year was a learning experience. I don't do it anymore because I don't have the health to do it. Every year on the first of November I would swear I would never do this again and then the seed catalogs would start showing up in the mail.......

For winter squash see what sells best in your area. I sold a lot of banana, sweet meat, hubbard, butternut, buttercup and spaghetti squash. This last summer I grew a medium sized squash (no pumpkins) patch with the intention of selling it but health issues prevented me from picking it by myself and I can't drive due to Parkinson's Disease. A group from my church came and picked the patch and most of it was given away. Hopefully next year I will have better control of the Parkinson's and be able to drive again.

 

[tractorford]

well....... if its non-monetary profitability......

you could always start your own commune with some good-hearted people on such land......

grow your own food... work on your homestead... share common perspectives and sing songs and such like....

become sort of a messenger of tractor goodly-ness, help spread the word and such of the rod and bolt....

some sorta tractoridian/neeshees....

 

[TheBartman47]

During a mindless spate of using the tractor to clean driveways. I thought about "trolling" these Laura Farms types. How?

Treat a farm operation like the music executives treat boy bands... just hire four pretty faces.

I wondered how much someone would have to pay three or four young women that met three criteria:
-Like farm work.
-Single
-Pretty

And then set them up on any type of operation;
Make sure that they do all chores in full makeup and Daisy Dukes;

Start a youtube channel...

You could probably pay the young women fairly well and make a decent living for yourself.

What that says about farming and society? No comment.

Sad but true, you would get the most income this way.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I know you don't like the idea of livestock, but depends on how profitable it is. If you start a herdshare , you sell shares of the cows for 100.00/ person, and get $14 / gallon for the milk.

 

[olddavid]

An old farmer was asked what he would do with a million dollars if he had it. His reply, "Well, I guess I'd keep farming as long as it lasted." The days of making a living with 40 acres and a mule are long gone.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

An old farmer was asked what he would do with a million dollars if he had it. His reply, "Well, I guess I'd keep farming as long as it lasted." The days of making a living with 40 acres and a mule are long gone.

I wonder what the exact root cause is. Yields were only a fraction what they are a century later. and half of the farm had to make feed for the horses. Government, state, local, what is it?

 

[Mule Meat]

Have you ever been in a large college town? If not, get close to the married student housing areas; you will find garden plots nearby. In spring, those areas are full of busy bodies prepping the ground, planting the seed, plants, etc. Then check back later in the summer when the interest is gone, the sun is hot, the ground is hard, and the weeds are taller than the intended crop. As a landlord on small plots, one better be prepared to finish the project, pick up tools, etc. that are left and clean up the plant debris in preparation for next year's energetic souls.

May be. But he will have the $100 they wasted on their little 50x50 patch of green acres. He will be willing to work with them. But he will not do it for them. The majority of towns people here either grew up on a farm or have family that owns farms. It will not be like plowing up a patch of dirt in Central Park for city dweller's to play in.

 

[will-max dairy]

For nearly 20 years I sold pumpkins every year, somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000. Over the years I added winter squash, about 400 to 800. I learned when I was looking through the seed catalogs for pumpkin seed to plant the description needed to include "long strong handles or stems". People rarely buy stemless pumpkins. Also grow a variety of sizes. Most kids seemed to prefer soccer ball sized pumpkins if they came to the patch. If I sold from a stand (usually a couple of flatbed trailers) they bought bigger pumpkins for more money. Generally when a carload of kids would stop each one got a pumpkin. When all I had was smaller pumpkins I would get about $10 per carload. When I started growing bigger pumpkins I would get $30 or more per carload. Another thing I did in the later years was grow some varieties that would ripen in August and sell them for fall decorations. Miniature pumpkins and gourds also sell very well. Medium and large gourds that didn't sell were left out in the weather and sold the next year as dried gourds for painting and as rattles to the local Native Americans.

Every year was a learning experience. I don't do it anymore because I don't have the health to do it. Every year on the first of November I would swear I would never do this again and then the seed catalogs would start showing up in the mail.......

For winter squash see what sells best in your area. I sold a lot of banana, sweet meat, hubbard, butternut, buttercup and spaghetti squash. This last summer I grew a medium sized squash (no pumpkins) patch with the intention of selling it but health issues prevented me from picking it by myself and I can't drive due to Parkinson's Disease. A group from my church came and picked the patch and most of it was given away. Hopefully next year I will have better control of the Parkinson's and be able to drive again.

I really couldn't care less about how many pumpkins you sold. I will pray that your health allows you to do what you love next summer; whether you sell a single pumpkin or not.

That is one of the intangibles of any type of farming.

That optimism when the days get longer.

Feeling that drive like you have a purpose waiting for you when the weather gets warm.

My oldest brother is 73, and he texts me here and there during the winter to say... "I'm hitting the gym; so I can help you with hay next summer, little brother..." I'll lose a lot of money farming before I lose that sense of purpose and I HAVE lost a lot of money, because I don't want to lose that excuse to have a brother, nephew, grand niece... or friend stop by to throw off a couple loads of hay and have a cold brew.

 

[paul]

We are in a period of time grain farming has very high input costs and below recent average incomes. So giving up a least profitable field might be a good move for the fella at this time.

Rents are over $200 an acre here, but you need a good rectangle nice dirt good drainage field. Odd little shapes and small fields are more hassle than they are worth. Tree lined is really bad the trees steal all the sun and fall moisture wrecking 12 rows next to the tree lines.

To find a new renter need someone close, it doesn’t pay to drive 3 miles to get to a 15 acre plot. Need someone already driving equipment past the field.

You won’t do well trying to farm grain on 15 acres. Takes too much equipment and knowlege to get the yields you need for 15 acres to pay out.

Hay can work if you have the time and a market in the area. Takes machinery but not too bad, mostly takes time, you need the flexibility to cut rake and bale at the right time.

Garden crops can be very profitable but you need time time time very labor intensive, and a market. You will not use 15 acres for garden crops by yourself, a half acre would be big the first year.

The rent a garden ends up being a mess of weeds and dreamers not willing to actually be out in their garden, lots of people skills to deal with the hassles. Can make some money but I wouldn’t want the headache and problems. People good at gardening manage to own a plot by their house, folk dreaming of raising their own soon tire of driving a mile or more to stand in the bugs and heat to look at a failed crop they weren’t familiar with growing and just stop showing up. I’d get depressed. Does your mom want the liability and that many people showing up.

 

[will-max dairy]

I wonder what the exact root cause is. Yields were only a fraction what they are a century later. and half of the farm had to make feed for the horses. Government, state, local, what is it?

Half of the farm made feed for the horses, and the horses replicated themselves in perpetuity. In the end, it maybe wasn't such a bad deal.

Nowadays, 99% of the farm (my off the cuff estimate) goes to pay various corporations a thousand miles away for equipment, parts for that equipment, interest on that equipment, fuel that comes out of some hole in the ground on the other side of the Earth and seed and chemicals that replaced the horses and the heirloom crops.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Start any type of operation. Take a bunch of pictures of it. Write stories about how gratifying and profitable it is, even if you have to lie about the profitability part. If you had a bunch of seed money to start with; make sure that you obscure that fact.

Then sell books about how someone else can do it too, with about as much initial investment as buying a Starbucks coffee every morning.

The books are your profit...

Bonus points if you have some kind of oddball breed of plant/animal that you're raising, and you make up some kind of backstory that the evil mainstream media and factory farms have suppressed this ancient breed...

Extra bonus points, pass go and get out of jail free, if you can call yourself the "<insert aspect of farming> whisperer"

OK... I'm having too much fun with this. I think I need to go muck out a pen with a pitchfork... or whatever.

Good luck, though... sincerely.

Your reply made me think... somebody better do SOMETHING with it... in my area if you fall off of CAUV then the owner is subject to recoupment.... presently it's go back and collect 3 years worth of residential tax rates.... plus the current year.

 

[ss55]

Your reply made me think... somebody better do SOMETHING with it... in my area if you fall off of CAUV then the owner is subject to recoupment.... presently it's go back and collect 3 years worth of residential tax rates.... plus the current year.

Is any proof of Ag revenue, not necessarily profit, required to qualify for Ag property tax reductions?

 

[SHALER]

Is any proof of Ag revenue, not necessarily profit, required to qualify for Ag property tax reductions?

I think to say each state has different regs is correct. In my state for example, (which is not Michigan), you do not need proof if your ag parcel is over 10 acres. If its under 10 acres, you do need to show proof each year you GROSSED at least $2500 annnually in order to keep the ag use valuation.