Solution to high fuel costs

[Animal]

I am having a bad night, legs are killing me and I can not sleep, this allows too much time for thinking which in my case could be dangerous. Everyone in my area is talking about $4 fuel prices and how they are going to effect us and our making out next year as farmers. The first thought that entered my head was, why don't we try to get everyone in a 50 mile radius together to buy our fuel from one fuel supplier which would amount to collectively in my area about three to four million dollars, and buy it on a low bid system. At first I thought that was a good idea, but more pain=more thinking! What if we all as farmers got tight and went straight to the FSA office and told them, unless fuel and inputs were rolled back to a reasonable price, no farmer in the good old U.S.A. would not plant a seed this spring, or pay a bill or sell an ounce of meat of any kind what do you think would happen? Probable, I seriously doubt it, crazy, not on your life,,,,just take a moment and think about the input we have in this country being THEE food supplier to the United States, and a major portion of this world.

 

[RobMD]

Or You can always do what my great grandfather did when he had 600 acres here in MD, He plowed all of it with a team of mules, and him and my grandfather worked the corn with hoes.

At the time, my great grandfather was probably one of the richest farmers in MD, and that is no doubt due to all that work, done by hand.

This way, you don't use a drop of gas.

Something tells me you won't pick up a hoe though.

 

[Drill]

Good idea, BUT, you could never get even 3 farmers to agree on anything.

 

[Kansas Cockshutt]

Yup, you have something there. Kinda like a similar solution to the SUV 4x4 soccer moms. If they want a 4x4 and are not disabled it is a stick shift. They will start buying automatic cars instead of big trucks before they give up holding their cell phone in one hand and makeup in the other while trying to row gears. You get an excemption if 1. you live in the country. 2. you actually have to travel on unpaved roads.

 

[kyplowboy]

Good idea. This is kinda along the line of what I have been thinking. I know that sticks don't get a whole lot more MPG, but most of the time they do get more from what I have seen. What are the odds of $4 gas helping bring the stick back into style? Finding a good newer used truck round here is hard, and most of the time there will not be a new one on the lot, if you want one you have to order it, if you can even get one then.

Around here the sock'r moms are backing off on the big suv's, it's their husbands that are not. I work about a mile from a big power plant and Aluminum joint that pay realy well. I see people going and coming from these all night long here. Many if not most of these guys have tags from 3 countys over so they drive 30, 40, or more miles one way to work. Seems most of them have Z71's with big tires or four door power strokes, most don't even have a reese hitch on them, so they don't use them to pull a thing. I drive 20 miles to my little water factory here, if I had to drive one of my two farm trucks here I would be hurt'n. I drive a 2000 cavalier with a 4 banger. (It is auto but was not my choice, long story) It gets about 30 mpg and the high cost of gas has not put too big a hurt on my comute to work. I don't drive my trucks around unless there is a reason. The only time I will drive one to work is if I need something between work and home that won't fit in the car. They make fun of me at the co-op because I will stop on the way home and pack the trunk with grass seed or tobacco chemicals. As a group alot of us farmers could do alot more to save gas. I know that alot of farmers are try'n but alot are not. I was at the NH dealer here a while back. A guy was in there getting a fuel line and some other stuff. Got to talking to him, he wished there was a dealer closer to him, he had to drive 60 miles just to get some odds and ends parts. Fit them all under his arm and went out, got in his 4X4 one ton and took off. My car that trip would have been 4 gallons, he used at least 8. At $3 a gallon how long would it take for 4 banger s-10 or ranger to pay for it's self for parts runs like this.
Sorry I kina got on a rant there but $4 gas scares me and I don't like $3. If every one would cut back where they can, we would be alot better off.

Dave

 

[TomR Ont]

Why did they cut way back on rail shipping, and put 1000s and 1000s more trucks on the roads

As far as I can see there is NO solution to high fuel costs - Why?
- 1 Greed the fix is in at the top, price goes up.
- 2 If you use too much, price up goes up.
- 3 Cut usage nationally way back, price goes down a little then, price goes way up.
- 4 Boycott certain brands distribution costs more, price goes up.
- 5 Crude futures, (wonder who buys the most) price goes up.
- 1 Exxon only made 40 billion that’s after all the political payouts and huge salaries.
When big business gets too big they don't have to listen to their customers anymore.

 

[hayray]

That might allow some deals because of buying power. But most of you might think I am crazy but our energy is the cheapest in the world. The free market is the best thing. An easier alternative is to just raise prices to offset increase in energy costs, they are not predicted to go down much anytime in the future based on world wide demand in China and India, we now have a lot more competition for energy then we did years ago so now the days of cheap fuel are gone and fuel now will be more in line with other increases that have been way ahead of fuel. Don't be statistically and economically illiterate by blaming big business and wanting more goverment control. Look at the facts, until very recently, adjusted for inflation gas is still cheaper today then it was in 1980.

 

[IaGary]

I'm gonna follow hayray's lead here.

With soybeans at $12.00 and corn 4.50 fuel has to go up or our bio diesel and ethanol will not sell cause it is to high compared to $3.00 gas.

So if we want high dollar grain we got to have $4.00 diesel for our product to sell.

Last week bio diesel was $3.90 a gallon and diesel was under $3.60.

So as FARMERS we need higher fuel cost to maintain our higher grain income.


Gary

 

[Anonymous-0]

Why do you blame EXXON they dont set the price board of trade does. Didnt you hear about the trader a few weeks ago who bid 100 cause he wanted to be the first to be on record to pay that much then sold it same day and lost money. Now yesterday gov wants to regulate the freight on the railroads some clown says they are making too much money. We do a good job of shooting ourselves in the foot. Waterloo,Ia shot down a 93mill plant MONSANTO wanted to build for seed corn. Now JOHN DEERE is going to spend 90mil to enlarge their plant in WATERLOO does that make sense anyone dont seem to be any objections to their idea just gots to know the rite people and our problems go on and on.

 

[Anonymous-0]

The best way to get your fuel price lower is too cut your engine RPM's by driving slower. These people who complain a lot about the high cost of gas or diesel are still driving 65,70 or 75 MPH on the roads. On my 05 Duramax if I cut my speed (empty) to 55 and RPM's to 1500 I can get about 22 to 24 MPG. If I run 70 I'm doing good to 15. At these fuel prices I can pay myself pretty good saving a 1/3 on fuel cost. It's all about "time management" and control. So when I hear the local's complain about fuel cost I just them they have some control. There question "how can I control my gas price" and I say just slow down. They look at you with their eyes rolling. It's probably good if fuel goes to $4.50 plus. At least it'll get the population to think conservation.

 

[Anonymous-0]

" Everyone in my area is talking about $4 fuel prices and how they are going to effect us and our making out next year as farmers"

Maybe these guys should quit acting like the sky is falling. Remember a month or so ago the idiots on the news said gas would be over 6 bucks a gallon by now. Well it isn't.

I've heard CNN say in the past few years that gas would be as high as 8 dollars a gallon by now.
Yet is about 2.85 where I live.

Come out from under the bed and get on with life. If you run around scared because of what these morons say it will kill you.

 

[Anonymous-0]

GOOD FOR YOU RON --- you have what's called Common Sense --- but the other's don't have it or know anything about Common Sense when Driving ... or much else .....
Thanks for your input --- a job well done ... Joe

 

[ericlb]

animal, that would probably work for awhile but the reason it hasnt been done is farmers , like truckers, are spread all over the country and it would be virtualy impossible to organize enough of them at the same time to make a difference, the truckers tried that back in the '70's, they just shut down, but there wern't enough of them at the same time doing it and some were in such desparate financial shape that they had to keep running, farmers are even worse, if you didnt plant to get the feds attention, how do you go back and raise a crop after you missed the season to plant? if you dont plant how do you survive untill next year? the feds know this and thats why the rip us so bad

 

[sd pete]

Some farmers are leveraged and have bills to pay such as land payments notes at the bank etc. Kind of hard to make those payments without a crop to sell.

 

[Howard H.]

I agree with you 100% Dave.

Until the guys like you are talking about that will take a 60 mile trip in a big truck for a plastic bag of parts feel enough pain to conserve, I don't see much hope for oil to not keep rising.

Poking along at 63 on my way to work, I get blown off the road by tons of people in duallies, Excusrsions, Tahoes, etc. I see the neighbor in her hopped up, high rise pickup commuting 50 mile daily, some chick that commutes over to the college 60 miles by herself at 75 mph in her Tahoe daily, etc...

Over half the high school kids in the parking lots are driving pickups, a high percentage of the college kids have pickups here, and quite a few of them are extended cab duallies...

It's funny to me to hear all the conspiracy theories about gov and big oil when the cause of such VORACIOUS oil demand is seen on every road, every parking lot, and every driveway in America...

When I try envision that many gallons of crude flowing continuously from holes in the ground, I'm shocked that it is this cheap... It's just hard to imagine that many billions of barrels of crude available for the mining...


Howard

 

[T-Rev]

How do you guys feel about 6 cylinder full size trucks? I used to have a 95 F-150 straight 6 and it got good gas mileage and ran well. It had enough power to do most anything you"d need to do. My thought on pickups is that they are overpowered. The v8"s from the 70"s had about half the hp and they got the job done. Especially for fleet contractor trucks and guys that farm small or part time, most of the time those pickups are just driving with some tools in the back. For the 10% of the time you need power they still easily do the work.

 

[Anonymous-0]

but unfortunately too many of these "men" here seem to think they need a 2000 hp diesel engine in their pickup to go to the hardware store.

I actually have to use my pickup for a living and I don't have self esteem issues so I get by just fine with a medium sized engine.

 

[Texasmark]

Agree on cutting the speed. Back when 55 was the law, they did tests to determine which was the fastest, economical and that was the number.

I have a new Dodge Hemi with the 4 cylinder cut out. It cuts off 4 cylinders at idle and at speed any time you are straight and level and don"t need all the whoopie of 8 ponies.

I have a mpg monitor in the overhead (OEM standard equip) and I can drive 55-60 and get over 17 mpg. But if I kick it up to 70, all 8 stay online (headwind I guess) and my mileage drops to 14.

 

[rrlund]

That's all fine and dandy,but I can't just let these steers stand here getting bigger abd bigger and not sell them. I can't head in to next winter with no feed either.

 

[cahess]

wife an son have that leg trouble(restless leg sindrome) Doctor can give a little pill called Requip an it will allow you to sleep.

 

[Kelly C]

You are right on this. Part of the problem is that as soon as a price goes up a bit. Every one jumps on board and increas production. Thus over producing and lowering the price.

If there were a system run by farmers that would monitor needed crop acerage aganst planted acrerage.
If say 50% of acrerage needed to be corn to support the price. 20% wheat, 20% Soybeans then the remainder hay,ect.
Obviously drought and high yealds would effect this some what but major over production would not happen.

Price would be more stable. The system now is set up to keep farmers competing with each other.
Plus how many farmers you know would only plant certain amount of acres if the price was high?

Could you just see ADM"S face if farmers all cooped thier acrerage?

 

[cahess]

There is a interesting Google site to read just found. (solix technologies ) 8000 gal of biodiesel per acre from bad stuff in water called algie.

 

[mj]

(quoted from post at 06:43:23 02/29/08) The best way to get your fuel price lower is too cut your engine RPM's by driving slower. These people who complain a lot about the high cost of gas or diesel are still driving 65,70 or 75 MPH on the roads. On my 05 Duramax if I cut my speed (empty) to 55 and RPM's to 1500 I can get about 22 to 24 MPG. If I run 70 I'm doing good to 15. At these fuel prices I can pay myself pretty good saving a 1/3 on fuel cost. It's all about "time management" and control. So when I hear the local's complain about fuel cost I just them they have some control. There question "how can I control my gas price" and I say just slow down. They look at you with their eyes rolling. It's probably good if fuel goes to $4.50 plus. At least it'll get the population to think conservation.

I'll go along with all of that. It makes wonder WHY the Feds are allowing speeds on the interstates to be so high. Out one side of their mouths they are urging America to conserve and the other side is letting states set speed limits of 75 & 80. Back when the limit was 55 I was driving truck at night and I could not stay awake at 55 so I'd drive 60 and all was well. If the country is really interested in cutting our consumption of [i:2e22c5280b]fossil fuels [/i:2e22c5280b](had to use that one) and leaving something for[i:2e22c5280b] future generations[/i:2e22c5280b] (another good one) they'd just set a national speed limit again; but, please God, they'd make it 60 this time!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Please, please, please go ahead with the boycott, but please keep it on your side of the border, and do it this year, and do it well! Us Canadian farmers would love it.

 

[greygoat]

Good idea but-- the NFO, and others have been
trying for years to get the farmer to stick
togather. It doesn't seem as if it can be done.
Americans are too stubbern and independent minded.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Small engines are not neccessarily more efficient at 1500 rpm. Sometimes that's too slow to make power.

I have a '98 F-150 with the small V-8, where the horsepower peak is at 4700 rpm. At 1500 rpm it was lugging. No guts. And with an overdrive manual transmission and 3.08 rear axle, it was putting along at 1500 rpm at 60. Wouldn't pull but half the truck weight as a trailer, rated at 2200 pounds trailer towing for a 4339 pound truck. Got 16 mpg.

I changed the rear axle gear ratio to 4.10, now I figure the trailer tow rating at 4700 pounds and I've had 6000 behind it. Gets 16 mpg unloaded at 60 mph. Gets 15 mpg at 52 with a 3000 pound camper on the hitch.

Now it has much better throttle response in all gears. It wouldn't have needed the axle gear change with the wide ratio transmissions of yesterday, but in a half ton in '98 the only manual transmission had only a 3.92:1 first gear. 6:1 would have been much better for towing.

Gerald J.

 

[Anonymous-0]

What appears to be a good solution doesn't pay out.

I have need for a pickup for hauling farm supplies and a camper. It gets 16 mpg. On the average the pickup alone did 8000 miles a year, so it used 500 gallons of gas that would cost $1500 at the current prices.

I picked up a used VW golf in 2006 that hauls me, groceries, and my double bass nicer than the truck and does it at 30-33 mpg. But it cost me $10K, may last 5 years, license cost about $100, insurance about $400, and fuel for 800 miles (267 gallons) costs $800. Oil changes cost nearly $40 for the factory specified synthetic oil and a good filter that will run 10K miles with the oil. So if it displaced all the truck miles it costs $3340 to save $1500. The added low fuel consumption vehicle doesn't pay for me. It costs. But the fiddle case stays cleaner and the fiddle is warmer when I get to the concert hall.

A friend has a Prius. Bought it new. After a year of running he found out that 60 mpg still won't save enough $2 gas to pay for it. So he traded in his truck and camper for a diesel powered motor to tow the Prius cross country. He can't get enough out of his Buick to cover depreciation, and it probably gets 25 mpg.

The economics are not there without lots of miles per year and without need for hauling stuff over 5' long or weighing more than 800 pounds total (counting the driver).

The high mileage vehicle does make the point of it looks like its saving, and it is saving fuel for the world but its costing a lot to make that point.

And lots of places license, insurance, and vehicle cost would be twice what I pay without getting to something exotic like Volvo or BMW or Mercedes.

Gerald J.

 

[Mark-Mi]

1 foot plow cut=43560 linial feet/acre
5280 ft/mile x 2mph (mules)=10560 ft.
10560 divided by 43560=.25 acre plowed/hr.
.25x10hr.day=2.5 acres.Mules probably rested 1/3 of the time.1.6 acres plowed a day.
Anymore stories Rob.I'll jump in the tractor you pick up the hoe.Mark

 

[J.C.in AZ.]

Echo's of the "NFO" on an different approach to the plight of the farmer. Did it NFO approach work then? Will it work now?

 

[Anonymous-0]

Gas is 3.50 here and store owner says the next tanker will have to sell for 3.90

 

[730 virgil]

one of the reasons nfo thing didn't work was nfo guys didn't stick with their own ideas.
one local county nfo president was getting truckers from out of area to haul hogs and cattle.
well trucker not knowing area got lost and had to ask for directions.

 

[farmer boy]

Your first idea might work. If 50 farmers were to get together and all put meters on their tanks and buy it on a low bid system. It would work on propane, gas, diesel, anything really. The other thing you could do is cut production. Like said multiple times the market sets the price. Supply and demand. Less work, lower imput cost, same money back. If everybody would get together it would work. You can store the grains and meat but at what cost? You would have to boycott for a few months before it started becoming effective. Instead organize it over a few years. Every body downsize accordingly. Supply goes down and demand stays the same or goes up.

 

[Anonymous-0]

i agree with previous post you can't get three farmers to agree on anything. back in the 70's the parade on washington by farmers was a great idea but the tv showed the farmers that drove their big new 4 wheel drives, which put a bad light on all. isn't the co-ops supposed to be farmer owned, how are they helping. not at all

 

[kyplowboy]

I understand that have'n extra cars is not always a good idea. That said, my ton truck at todays prices would cost me $2600 a year to drive to work, my car cost $1040, a save'ns of $1560. My car has been paid off for 3 years. If I am going to put 25,000 a year (work is not this much but that is about what I put on my car) on a ride, and own it for say 5 years. I think it would be cheaper to buy a $10,000 used car and sell it for $3,000 after 5 years than to buy a $25,000 used truck and sell it for $8,000 in 5 years. I have 3 vehicals insured and licensed, the car cost $84 to license. The cost for insurance is about the same for the three as it would be for two. If I droped the car the price on my two trucks would go up. For me, the price of gas, no more than the maintance and daily cost of my car, it works out for me. For what most farmers around here do I think a $5,000 small pickup would pay off. Many people put 10,000 plus miles a year on a 3/4 or 1 ton just going to get fuel filters, lunch, and to the bank. After five years the nice truck would have 50,000 fewer miles on it and be worth 5,000+ more. Why do people think they have to drive to the post office in a $30,000 ride that gets 15 mpg?

Dave

 

[Anonymous-0]

Caution, definition of boycott such as trucking industry,or agriculture related=ACT OF TERRORISM!

 

[trucker40]

Thats right.No need in trying to make any sense out of it,the people doing it dont have any sense.All they want is more money,and I suppose they will keep it up until we stop them from getting any more.
That slowing down is going to cause more wrecks.Most people that push papers around and rip working people off are running 80 or more down the interstate,so if you are driving 50 you need to put a roll cage in when they blow your poor carcass off the road.
Finally get crops to where you can get ahead a little then they jack the price of fuel up.Next the people that raise livestock will cry until they lower the price of grain but the fuel will stay high.
Just my speculation.

 

[Anonymous-0]

There are 4000 passenger airplanes in the air at any give time burning 3500 gallons each per hour .My calculator says this is 14 million gallons per hour.My tractor uses 1 gallon per hour.My truck gets 19 mpg.Who is responsible for our hugh fuel consumption.my truck travels about 3000 miles in a year,158 gallons per year.I use 600 gallons of fuel oil to heat the house each year.Diesel trucks idling at truck stops use 1.5 billion gallons of fuel per year.I dont see how my truck is a villain because it is 4wd.

 

[Bruce Hopf]

Up here in Canada, we are also feeling this big pintch as well. I said 15, 20 years ago, Factory workers can go on strike, Why can't the farmers. I was told, that sombody had to feed the live stock. I didn't want to cause an argument then, But I will now. All the farmers, both sides of the border, have to unite. After all the farmers feed the Cities. Corect me if I'm wrong. All we have to do is pull our big equipment into the Cities, Slow down traffic to a crawl. Park somthing infront of the unloading ramps of the suppermarkets, like a combine, The trucks won't be able to unload the produce. As an ex truckdriver, the trucking industry will be on our side as well. With in one, possibly 2, the governments on both sides of the boarders, will do somthing about it.
Up here, the done that for a day here, and a day there. That just made the public mad. If we do it every day, the public would then get a real eyeopener, expecialy when the food shelves go completely empty, with no food, The Governments will have to change their tune. My opinion anyway.

 

[Bruce Hopf]

I sated back some 20 odd years ago, that the farmer, should be alowed to strike. Up here in Canada, farming is getting tuffer, and tuffer to make it ,and to get a head, with the high rising fuel costs, fertilizer,and seed, and getting less and less for our product. Up here we martched up on parlament hill, but for 1 day. Other times for one day as well. As far as I'm concerned, all that did was make the public mad at the farmer. When a factory workers goes on strike, It is for weeks on end. I feel that all us farmers, on both sides of the border, need to be paid for what they are worth. Not This is what we are paying, take or leave it. Live stock farmers are on call 24 hours, 7 dayes a week. Averages out to be $2.00 per hour, maby more Pay that to a factory worker, he will tell you to pound rubber. For a farmers to go on strike, all we have to do is park a combine infront of a loading dock, so trucks can't unlo0ad produce, at suppermarkets. Drive our heavey equipment through the Cities, slowing down the traffic, but do this every day for 1 to 2 weeks. Only then would we be able to get the attention of our governments. When the shelves in the Supper Markets run empty. The city people will realize, Hey The Supper Markets Don't Make Or Grow The Food, like they think. Being an ex truckdriver, I know the trucking industry will be on our side, because they are also feeling the pinch of high costs of fuel as well. We have a thanklees job, and not getting paid much for our efforts. And so does the truck driver. Thanks. This is my opinion anyway. What is your opinion?