Standing my ground....

[Kestrel in CT]

This is what happens when you live in a state with the highest kilowatt rate in the continental US ($0.19/kwh).

Its gone up 60% in the last 3 years alone with no end in sight.

Because I'm too stubborn to move, my chickens now reside in a "Category I Power Generating Facility".

This month I crowded on 36x 210 watt panels (7560 total watts) with this grid-tied solar system and for fun now go outside with a beer and lawn chair to watch my meter spin backwards.

Sometimes I'll even go fire up my little Case and throw a little CO2 back into space just for laughs. Al Gore....eat your heart out !

If anyone is interested in costs, tech, info. for this project, drop me a line.

 

[phillip d]

Holy smokes!That's alot of pannels,very impressive,and so is the Case.pd

 

[onefarmer]

Please tell us more.
Cost of the panels?
Generates what percent of your power?
How much in Jan?
How much in July?
Do you just feed the excess back into the grid or do you also use battery storage?

 

[georgeky]

That is a nice set up. Seems like a fancy chicken house. Nice old Case too.

 

[AndrewFromNS]

Yeah, I'm interested in more information on those panels, too...being in Canada, I don't know how relivant the prices would be, but it would at least give me some idea how long it would take to break even.

AR

 

[rrlund]

Are those panels made by United Solar Ovonics by any chance? Those folks just opened up two new manufacturing plants 8 miles west of me.

 

[TomH in PA]

Anybody have solar panels for heat/hot water? A neighbor has a few and say they work really well in spring and fall when temperatures aren't too cold and the days are long enough.

 

[buickanddeere]

And I was moaning about 9.8cents/kwhr

 

[Walt Davies]

My nephew builds solar Electric system here are a couple he has put in.
Yes that is a Nuclear power plant in the background. With a $100 electric bill and $25,000 starting price I'm not so sure I could break even.
Walt

<a href="http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j50/WaltDavies/?action=view&current=Res-AgTracker.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>


<a href="http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j50/WaltDavies/?action=view&current=RSEcommrancho.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>

 

[Walt Davies]

Forgot to add his Web site.

<a href="http://s77.photobucket.com/albums/j50/WaltDavies/?action=view&current=RESComm-CalExpo.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>
Roseville Sollar electric.

 

[JDemaris]

What exactly do you mean by 19 cents per KWh?

Also, did you get them property-tax-exempt? I did, but I had to fight it.

Where I live in NY, the supposed rate is 13 cents per KWh - but once you figure the true cost it's much more. The last bill I got before going to solar was $81.34 total for 450 KWh. So, even though that bill shows 13 cents, it actually comes to 18 cents per KWh.

I've got a 5400 watt solar-array with Kyocera 190GTs, grid-tied but also with full battery backup via a 48 volt Rolls-Surette battery bank. Twin Outback inverters,hub, etc. Iota 48 VDC charger to keep batteries up via a diesel genset if ever needed (never happened yet).
Had to build a barn for it away from the house in order to catch what little sun we get. We make about 20% more electricity each year than we use.
If we lived out in the southwest, we'd be making twice as much.

About saving money though? I don't know about that. Peace of mind and independence, yes. My system has a price sticker of $50,000. I paid $18,000 out-of-pocket, and the rest I got back in Federal and State incentives. Even so - if my normal bill was $1000 per year, this thing has to last 18 years with no problems to even break even (at current grid rates).

I'm still glad we did it though, and I regard it as a lifetime investment. If we move, so will the panels.

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&current=100_1483.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&current=100_1488.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&current=100_1484.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>

<a href="http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m162/jdemaris/?action=view&current=100_1286em.jpg" target="_blank">

</a>

 

[Kestrel in CT]

Unless you live in a state with a hefty solar rebate program, these panels are still expensive for most people.
Here in CT, like a few other states, we get a 50% rebate, but the system has to be installed by a state approved solar contractor.

That was fine by me. I suppose if you're handy and don't mind climbing roofs, the numbers might work- absent a rebate program.

My out-of-pocket cost was $31,000 for a full turnkey installation including the 140' trench w/conduit from barn to house.
That reflects my 51% rebate. Actual total cost was $62,000.

I try not to get too worked up about return on investment. I suppose 8 years with current rates, less of course as they go up.

I also have a very high electric consumption due to the heat pump on my geothermal system. Because my barn roof faced due south and had an ideal slope, I just had to to it......or move.

I should at least slash my total energy bill in half with this system. Little hard to say. Its only been up for two weeks now. My biggest day was 29 kwh under mostly sun and I seem to get 5-8 even under overcast skies. These are very short days so I expect bigger numbers as the earth tilts back.

During the day my excess power is fed back into the grid, and returns as I need it. I'm charged the difference (called net metering) and can "bank" my surplus power month to month. I get a check if my yearly generation exceeds my usage.

Battery back up did not make sense. They drain power and need replacing, and we don't get too many power outages to justify it.
I use a kerosene heater if that happens.

A fixed roof mounting was the most cost effective for me. My latitude here in CT is 42 degrees with the average optimum tilt angle of 35 degrees for the array. My pitch is about 40. Better anyway for my higher winter energy needs.

Canada ? I'm no expert, but a steep angle and long unobstructed southern exposure for sure would be in order.
I had to clearcut half the state it seemed to eliminate shading.

Anyway, the panels are made by Sunpower Corp. I feel they are the most efficient on the market now.
The 7000W Inverter is made by Xandrex for Sunpower

I'm no fan of big government messing around with markets, but things are so screwed up now, I think they better. These industries need a jump start. Geeze..... I sound like a nnalert.
Time for a cold one !

I hope this answers your questions. Keep 'em coming if not

 

[Kestrel in CT]

Hi JD,
My current bill is a little hard to read right now with spilled beer on it but adding up all charges and fees, is it $$0.199999 kwh.

Now if the town tries to get cute and raise my property taxes for this improvement, I expect all yuz YT guys to come bail me out of jail.'cause I ain't paying. Period!!!

Seriously, I have yet to see where the town is on this, but will fight 'em.

I agree with your ROI philosophy. I feel dern good right now. I even waived to a passing CT Light & Power truck today.

 

[JDemaris]

Every state is different. In New York, the state passed a law that "allows" a town government to make solar electric systems exempt from property tax hikes. So - all that means is - here, you are at the mercy of the town government. The certainly can tax solar systems if they want.

I checked into it very carefully before installing. New York has one of the largest incentive programs in the country right now (and we're all taxed for it). If it hadn't been for the huge incentives, I would of installed off-grid with a much cheaper system. I can buy non-UL rated solar panels with full 25 year warranty at 1/2 the price of what I have now. Also, some mod-wave 5000 watt inverters would of been much cheaper than the full-wave Outbacks. But, to qualify for incentives - the panels must be UL listed and to have grid-tie, inverters must be full-wave and meet many strict requirements.
I was also very leary of the grid-tie arrangement. I was wondering for a long time - after "selling" power to the grid, if they would charge me a delivery charge to get it back when I needed it. I never got a straight answer - but we just found out. This is the darkest month I've seen in years and this is the first month we needed some power back from the grid. We got it, and no delivery charges. At the moment, the power company owes us over 4000 KWhs - so we've got plenty in reserve. It's kind of like lending them money and not getting any interest on it. But, it beats making the excess power and wasting it.

 

[Anonymous-0]

6.5 cents/kwh in Manitoba. That's why we sell electricity.

 

[Doug in Illinois]

They tell us our KWH rate is 5.1 cents, but by the time they get done adding in all the rest of the charges it is over 13 cents. Even giving them benefit of removing security light rental from the mix, it is still over 12 cents. They add in stuff like PPAC, whatever that is, that equals the 5.1 also, plus a facilty charge and state taxes. They say it has not increased in several years, they will be raising rates on it and the facility charge as if January 1. If it hasn't increased already, how come my bill is higher for this year than last yet I used less energy this year? DOUG

 

[john in la]

Very nice system.

I looked into this a while back but our state offers very little help.
La only gives you a tax credit on 50% of the money you spend. The property value increase is exempt but since my property tax bill is $0.00 right now I do not see any help there. Also the net metering rules say you only collect after you cancel your electric service.

Since our rate is 0.089 per KWH it would take 26 years to break even. 19 years if you figure the increase in property value.

 

[DitchWI]

Did you compare this system to wind power? And if so what was the deciding factor to go with solar? Seems rather spendy. We are being charched .12 cents per kwh and would like to install a windmill on top of the hill to help out since everything in the house is electric.

 

[Mark - IN.]

Is a fella down the road has had a wind generator since the 70's. Actually a couple in the same spot. I guess like everything else, stuff wears out, parts get hard to find as models age. A couple of years ago, I looked into such a wind generator for the home. Why pay someone else? But as I recall, they weren't real cheap and were more supplimental than primary power...as I recall. By the time one charged the batteries, and then bled off through an inverter, the KWH wasn't there for primary service for models available to individual users, and needed an average wind speed of "x" to make a go of it, as I recall. Maintenance too.

Nice idea though, and I too would love to do it. Could put those up out in the fields and plow around them.

As a side note, I remember reading where somewhere in southern or mid Indiana banned them. The municipality, county, or...? I nearly blew my stack when read that. Some politicians saying, "You must do the right thing for the environment, but we just won't let you, so we'll have to tax you more".

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks for the post... nice pics and very informative... me & my missus are thinking seriously about installing a combination of solar and wind generation. Course, out here, I won't need to worry about shading... (we're trying to get trees to grow!) we have 340 days of sunshine and lots of wind! As far as ROI is concerned, I was caught up in that XX number of years to break-even thing, when I had one of those "duhhh" moments... if the cost of utilities continues to increase as it has in the past couple of years, We'll be in the plus column before we know it! Please keep us posted!!! D

 

[buickanddeere]

9.8 cents is a composite and varies. There two prices for electricity depending on amounts. Then transmission charges, transmission losses, debt retirement, connection charge and a couple of other charges nobody really knows what they are.
Anybody can sell solar for 42cents/KW hr and 11 cents/KW hr for "renewable". Water, wind, biomass etc. It does require a "Philadelphia Lawyer" to sort through the red tape.
There are incentive programs etc for "renewable energy" however it's a task for the previously mentioned "Philadelphia Lawyer".