Starter/Electrical Problem - Please Help

[RTR]

I recently acquired a MF 50 tractor and it has a 12 volt system with push button start and a toggle to turn power on and off to the points. Didn't run when i bought it and when i put a fresh battery on it, the motor and starter turned over perfectly with the push of the starter button. I walked away to get some gas and emory paper, and when I returned the push button acted as if I removed the battery from the tractor.....it did NOTHING. This tractor has a Ford style solenoid wired on it so all I did was take a screwdriver and jump the top post going to battery with the small "start" post on solenoid and that turned the motor over perfectly just as if I had used the starter push button. NOW......I HAVE 2 problems.

Problem #1: The push button will work when it wants to. Some times it will and sometimes it acts as if there is not even a batter in there. What causes that???

Problem #2: Upon trying to move the tractor in my shop after I have started it and driven it 6-7 times; it now only "clicks". I used the starter button and it did a "click" "click" "click", etc. I then used a screwdriver on the solenoid as before and I got the same "click" "click" "click" "click". No go. Now what gives. I don't want to drive 1 hour to the starter shop only to find out it is something else. Please help me in learning how to diagnose these problems and know what is wrong.

 

[RTR]

And just to clarify becuase the picture might look misleading..............That positive red cable is going to the battery. The previous owner used another red cable to run the ground to the starter. So yes, those are hooked up correctly.

 

[old]

A clicking solenoid means either a battery that needs to be charged or poor battery cable connections some place

 

[RTR]

(quoted from post at 23:10:34 12/08/20) A clicking solenoid means either a battery that needs to be charged or poor battery cable connections some place

Went with this advice and purchased a new battery at $110.00. Shouldn't have been in a hurry to figure this out to get it in the shop because the new battery didn't fix it. All connections are good too from test light. I ended up using a jumper cable with the old battery connected and jumped positive battery to starter lug. Fired right up. After I got it in the shop, the push button worked 1 time and it turned over and started up. After that the push button was "dead" and had to use the jumper cable to start again. Not sure why its doing this, but I think I'm getting rid of the toggle switch and the push button and replacing that with a key start switch since the solenoid is already there. I will replace wires when doing the switches. Just wish I could figure out the problem that is causing all of this........

 

[rvirgil_KS]

" All connections are good too from test light." Don't trust a test light to tell you the condition of connections as it will not load the circuit.

Do you have a neutral safety switch in the gear shift mechanism to prevent starting when in gear. They can be the cause of your symptoms.

When it just clicks or does nothing, make sure it is out of gear and jumper from nut or connector on small solenoid post to battery cable connection at solenoid and see if that engages solenoid. Stay away from the threads on solenoid post so you don't arc and damage them.

Make sure both ends of both battery connections are clean bright and tight and that cables and ends are in good condition

 

[RTR]

(quoted from post at 02:05:37 12/09/20) " All connections are good too from test light." Don't trust a test light to tell you the condition of connections as it will not load the circuit.

Do you have a neutral safety switch in the gear shift mechanism to prevent starting when in gear. They can be the cause of your symptoms.

When it just clicks or does nothing, make sure it is out of gear and jumper from nut or connector on small solenoid post to battery cable connection at solenoid and see if that engages solenoid. Stay away from the threads on solenoid post so you don't arc and damage them.

Make sure both ends of both battery connections are clean bright and tight and that cables and ends are in good condition

All connections are clean, bright , and tight. tractor is started in neutral, but the neutral safety switch is not even hooked up. It clicks when I jump the solenoid like you stated.

 

[old]

Clean tight and bright makes no difference if the cable them self are bad and that you cannot see of measure. Or the solenoid could be bad

 

[Oli-V]

Get a cheap voltmeter VOM (depends how much you want to spend), set it on a DC scale to read 12v.

1. Connect the VOM (-) black to the starter ground (metal of the starter to start with). Connect VOM (+) red to the actual battery post. 'Screwdriver' the solenoid and if 11v-plus is there.

2. If 'click' (all these tests depend on the 'click' response), move the red VOM lead to the cable connector on the (+) battery post, and 'screwdriver'. Again should be 11v. If not, your (+) cable is not connecting.

3. Mover the VOM red to the battery side of the solenoid, and 'screwdriver'. If 11v, battery connection is good to the solenoid.

4. Mover the VOM red to the starter side of the solenoid, and 'screwdriver'. If 11v, solenoid is good. You can continue this same routine if you have a connector on the starter, to test that short cable.

Now the caveat...If all is good, lets make the VOM red the common connection now on to positive battery post, and move the VOM (-) black - in the same sequence of step testing. First move the black lead to the Neg post - then the Neg connector - then the Neg cable where it attaches to the starter, each time with the 'screwdriver' test. Your meter should again read 11v-plus on all tests, and if you get anything much lower than 11v, you have a bad connection at that point. If all seems to check out, it could be the starter. Or multiple problems, like multiple bad connections/cables. And make sure the battery has a full charge. And sometime with tarnish and corrosion, your VOM test leads are not making properly. Make sure they are, or your testing is messed up.

 

[Oli-V]

And a quick test that should point to a bad starter right away would be connecting the red of the VOM to the Pos terminal on the starter, and VOM black to the starter housing, and 'screwdriver'. If 11v, then pretty dang sure it would be a bad starter.

Keep in mind its generally somewhat around 11v, and I am not saying 11v exactly for any of these tests.

 

[504]

It's either the button switch or a bad solenoid,maybe both.

 

[SVcummins]

A good set of jumper cables can help diagnose what you are
trying to fix . If it works when you hook the jumper cables
between battery and starter and it works every time try it five
or ten times if it works every time then you have a bad
connection or bad cable on the tractor . As far as the switch
being intermittent run push the switch and run an ohm text
and see what it reads . Looking at the wiring on that tractor I’d
guess you have some bad connections plaguing you an ohm
meter and the good ol wiggle test will show the problem . Any
place you see these types of connections used that I’ve
circled in red check too see there is power on both sides they
get corroded and start making a poor connection they look
good but wiggle and check with your meter and see now I
know the ones I circled are on the ignition circuit not the
starter but if they are on one part of the tractor they are
probably on other parts to

 

[Jim.ME]

First. Be sure the tractor is in neutral.

Next, how good is the ground of the solenoid base, it looks like that solenoid is one that needs a good mounting base ground to work. Check and repair first, if needed, as if that ground is bad you are wasting time. You could run a wire from one of the base mounting bolts to a nearby bolt that goes into the engine, or other cast part of the tractor, to be sure the ground is good.

Then, you can use a wire to jump from the battery cable connection at the solenoid to the S terminal on the solenoid to test the solenoid operation. If it didn't work, you can use a jumper cable to jump between the battery cable and starter terminals on the solenoid to confirm the starter works. If the starter works with the booster cable jumper, that would say bad solenoid to me. If it worked when you used the jumper wire between the battery terminal and the S terminal of the solenoid it would indicate a bad switch(es) and/or wiring between the solenoid and ignition switch. You have to have constant 12 volt power to the start switch when the ignition is on. You can use a piece of wire to jump the terminals of the starter button switch to check that. If it works every time with the wire = bad starter button.

 

[SVcummins]

 

[showcrop]

Click only means a bad cable connection. Even when they are all clean bright and tight. It has happened to me.

 

[RTR]

(quoted from post at 17:52:19 12/11/20)
Click only means a bad cable connection. Even when they are all clean bright and tight. It has happened to me.

Ok, thank you. Im gonna go through the starting circuit and replace the wires and switches with a key switch. I should find and fix the problem.

 

[SVcummins]

How ya coming with it

 

[RTR]

(quoted from post at 12:45:50 12/19/20) How ya coming with it

Thanks for asking. I havent gotten to it yet. Probably next week. I can only have OEM in it in evenings after work and travel 150 miles to see family each weekend. This week will only give me 2 nights I can work since its Christmas. Im hoping to get a Farmall 140 painted either of those days too.