starter engages intermittently---your thoughts?

[Smiley]

My Massey ferguson 399 4wd has a problem engaging the starter. It's a new starter that came on the tractor when I bought it this summer. The starter spins OK but doesn't engage each time. It happened occassionaly when the weather was warm, but with cold weather now, I have to hit it 6-8 times to make it engage. Trying to use the preheater while waiting for it to engage doesn't fly. I figured the bendix just needed lubrication and yanked it today. Lubed bendix, shaft, solenoid pivot pin and any other moving parts. Put it back on and same problem. I believe it's a Lucas starter on the Perkins diesel. One thing I noticed was the solenoid return spring seemed pretty stiff. Didn't really want to try cutting it down without having another one standing by. If anyone else has had and solved this problem, I'd sure like to hear about it, or your thoughts on it.
Thanks,
Smiley

 

[Anonymous-0]

If it happens more on cold engine then warm that leads me to believe it is sticking. Did you clean off old film before lubeing it? also did you lube with penitrating oil or diesel? I would not be afraid to shorten that spring or put lighter one on.

 

[Ken Macfarlane]

I've had the same problem only it was in a starter with a roller overdrive clutch and throwout yoke. No bendix. The roller clutch was pooched. 15$ saved me a 600$ starter.

 

[Walt Davies]

Never Never put any lube on the Bendix it is made to run dry an clean. Get some brake cleaner and spray it clean and dry then try it.
Walt

 

[Walt Davies]

Forgot also check the ring gear and the starter for damage. And make sure that it lines up correctly when installed.
Walt

 

[Anonymous-0]

Inside the starter drive (roller clutch ) gear, where it slides on the starter shaft is a bronze bushing that needs lubrication. When I worked for a rebuilder we coated the inside of it with a medium Lithium grease for longest life and best function. the splined area of the shaft. towards the armature windings benefits from grease as well.

 

[Howard H.]

Like Walt alluded to - you may have a worn spot on the ring gear.

I've got a GB Moline like that - about 1/2 the width of the teeth are worn off for a couple of inches where the motor naturally comes to rest and leaves the ring gear in the same place...

I can turn the motor over a couple of inches by turning the fan or pry bar on the flywheel or whatever - and then it will pop right off.

Howard

 

[Smiley]

There are no worn spots on the ring gear, so that's not a problem.
I misstated When I said Bendix. It is the type where the solenoid pulls the yoke to throw the drive into the ring gear.
What is happening is the starter starts spinning and doesn't engage the ring gear at all (no grinding just spinning) as if the solenoid is sticking. That was my conclusion and why I thoroughly cleaned and lubed the entire drive assembly with lithium grease.
Apparently the solenoid is not pulling the drive far enough to engage the ring gear. That's why I thought less spring tension might help, but it's such a specialized spring, I doubt that I could buy another without purchasing the whole solenoid ($76). I'll try to find a spring though to play with.
If worse come to worse, I had another thought last night of adding a separate regular solenoid and starter button, so I could throw the drive in with the solenoid on the starter, then hit the second one to spin the starter.
Thanks,
Smiley

 

[Anonymous-0]

If it is a Lucas starter the pin that the fork pivots on is an ecentric. You can adjust the travel of the drive. With the starter off on the bench hook it to a battery & run it. The drive should just lightly touch the stop collar on the armature shaft when it is engaged. Loosen the jam nut on the pivot bolt and adjust it. Make sure the pins on the fork are not worn off to much. Should work fine.

 

[Smiley]

Ted in NE
Thanks. That's the one. I saw that adjustment and did try it but couldn't see that it did anything, but didn't know what to look for. Thought it just held the pivot pin in place. The ITT book says nothing about it.
There is also a 3/8 spacer between the starter and housing that I thought about removing to try, but was afraid it might jam the starter into the flywheel and end up buying a new starter or worse.
As soon as I can, I'll yank it back off. As you know, not an easy job because of removing the hyd pump, and that one back bolt that I had to cut off a 9/16 end wrench to get in there. Flex socket won't go on.
Also am looking for an operator manual for the 399 if anyone has one for sale, so I can properly check fluid levels, understand all the levers and gizmo's etc.
Thanks again,
Smiley