Starter fluid leak? Help!

[Jimps]

It was funny for a minute, it looked like my starter was leaking fluid. A waitress at a restaurant recently told me that she thought her alternator fluid was low. I was thinking that I was leaking Starter Fluid!

Anyway, I installed a new radiator and hoses, and was running my 52 8N with just water, to flush out the system. Once it got good and hot, I turned it off and let it sit for about 10 minutes. I went back out to drain it and noticed water dripping from the starter. I'm pretty sure that the starter is not supposed to have any fluid in it so on closer inspection I found that the leak was behind the starter, on the block directly behind the starter. I got a small mirror and looked behind it as best I could, and it looks like a bit of corrosion or cooties in a small area. It was a pretty consistent dripping, however it did stop after about 30 minutes.

What does that mean? I don't think the starter actually attaches to the block at that point. Do I have a cracked block? How can I fix it?

Thanks,

Jimps in GA.

 

[HCooke]

There is a Welsch plug behind the starter. Hopefully that is the problem and putting a new one in will seal it up. Probably have to pull the starter to inspect and take care of it.

 

[Ken-Pa]

Remove the starter & inspect that area for a crack . Not sure if theres a plug in that area or not . Don"t be afraid to clean the paint & goop off . If you find the leaking are , post back . There are ways to repair a cracked block but may get expensive .Post back with pics . God bless

 

[FLAcharlie]

My surmise is that the water jacket is very thin RIGHT behind the starter. On my 50 "N, it got cracked right there about 6 years ago when we were removing the starter (too much "heavy hammer").
Well, I cleaned off the area with brake cleaner and put a wad of JBweld on there, it"s been fine every since, though I"m sure that won"t last forever.

 

[GB in MT.]

[b:8e32625389][i:8e32625389]
Jimps;
You ask:..."What does that mean? I don't think the starter actually attaches to the block at that point. "

It means yer starter is pregnant, and it's water broke!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Gary :shock: [/i:8e32625389][/b:8e32625389]

 

[Jimps]

(quoted from post at 20:40:19 02/08/10) There is a Welsch plug behind the starter. Hopefully that is the problem and putting a new one in will seal it up. Probably have to pull the starter to inspect and take care of it.

It does appear to be some sort of round plug thingy there. I'll go pull the starter tonight and post a picture of the suspect area. How do you replace that plug?

Thanks!

Jimps in GA.

 

[Jimps]

(quoted from post at 21:07:47 02/08/10) [b:1d4902b04e][i:1d4902b04e]
Jimps;
You ask:..."What does that mean? I don't think the starter actually attaches to the block at that point. "

It means yer starter is pregnant, and it's water broke!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Gary :shock: [/i:1d4902b04e][/b:1d4902b04e]

Oh Lord! I have four kids now (so far :mrgreen: ). I don't need no little tractors running around. 1st Birthday for #4 tonight. Lighting candle now. Ice cream and cake for supper!

Jimps in GA.

 

[Blaine K]

Jimps, I am just in the middle of a rebuild on my 9n and I may have had the exact issue that your having. There are 4 Welch plugs on that side of the block, one of them being right behind the starter. The plugs are the disk type of welch plug, they are 1 3/16" in size. I got my replacements at NAPA. Just drain the coolant system, drill a hole in the centre of the faulty plug and pry out with a punch. Clean out the machined recess in the block that holds the plug, apply some marine grade permatex and install the new one with a ball peen hammer. The Welch plug (disks) are convex in shape you want to insert them with the outside of the bowl towards you. then just set the ball part of the hammer against it and give a couple good strikes with second hammer. It may be that this is not your issue at all, but if it is this will give you a direction to head in anyway.

 

[Den N Ms]

Jimps,Unless you live in the southern hemisphere or some place warmer than it is in Ms.You had better go out and drain the water out of your block and radiator.Or you will have a big leak in your block when it cracks.

 

[Ken(Ark)]

(quoted from post at 17:27:28 02/08/10) It was funny for a minute, it looked like my starter was leaking fluid. A waitress at a restaurant recently told me that she thought her alternator fluid was low. I was thinking that I was leaking Starter Fluid!

Jimps in GA.

I have a can of 6 volt starter fluid just for the old 8n's . Don't use any of that new multi volt fluid (6w18volt) as it may damage the muffler bearings or the flux capacitor .

Did you actually order anything from that waitress ?

 

[Dune Country]

if the soft plug does not go in easily "set" it in with a socket or pipe of the same size, then flatten it out,
I don't hit a hammer with a hammer any more, I was putting a new handle on a hammer years ago, pounding it on with another hammer and a chip flew off, went through my raincoat,shirt and tee shirt and inbedded in my shoulder, had to have the doc dig it out, hard on hard is not good.

 

[Jimps]

(quoted from post at 22:00:49 02/08/10)

(quoted from post at 17:27:28 02/08/10) It was funny for a minute, it looked like my starter was leaking fluid. A waitress at a restaurant recently told me that she thought her alternator fluid was low. I was thinking that I was leaking Starter Fluid!

Jimps in GA.

I have a can of 6 volt starter fluid just for the old 8n's . Don't use any of that new multi volt fluid (6w18volt) as it may damage the muffler bearings or the flux capacitor .

Did you actually order anything from that waitress ?

My Connuder rod limits the tractor speed to less than 88 MPH, so my Flux capacitor is useless. I'm thinking about selling it on eBay.

I repacked my muffler bearings last year. Do you have to service them more than once a year?

Waitress had very big things ahead of her, so I was buying whatever she was selling! LOL

Jimps in GA.

 

[Blaine K]

Brass Hammer.

 

[Jimps]

(quoted from post at 21:59:12 02/08/10) Jimps,Unless you live in the southern hemisphere or some place warmer than it is in Ms.You had better go out and drain the water out of your block and radiator.Or you will have a big leak in your block when it cracks.

It's been right at freezing down here in South GA recently. I'm going to drain it tonight, just in case. It's in a shed, but uninsulated.

Thanks,

Jimps in GA.

 

[Ultradog MN]

by her 12v high beams I probably would have waffled - or maybe ordered pancakes and eggs over easy.

 

[Jimps]

(quoted from post at 20:40:19 02/08/10) There is a Welsch plug behind the starter. Hopefully that is the problem and putting a new one in will seal it up. Probably have to pull the starter to inspect and take care of it.

Looks like there are four of those plugs. Do I need to go ahead and replace them all while I'm at it? Or just the one?

Jimps in GA.

 

[forddoc]

if it were me I'd replace them all they are more than likely the same age/vintage. they may do the same soon.

 

[Den N Ms]

Jimps,Yes replace all four ,if one is rusted through it won't be long and another will be leaking to.Call it preventive maintenance.

 

[Jimps]

(quoted from post at 21:19:16 02/08/10)

(quoted from post at 20:40:19 02/08/10) There is a Welsch plug behind the starter. Hopefully that is the problem and putting a new one in will seal it up. Probably have to pull the starter to inspect and take care of it.

It does appear to be some sort of round plug thingy there. I'll go pull the starter tonight and post a picture of the suspect area. How do you replace that plug?

Thanks!

Jimps in GA.

Quote from FO-4 manual regarding removing the starter: "Remove two cap screws from end of starter motor and remove the motor." HA!!! So simple a caveman can do it...NOT!

Bruce's 50 tips #36. Might have been a good to remember. Now where are those darn toothpicks!!!

 

[Jimps]

(quoted from post at 20:46:32 02/08/10) Remove the starter & inspect that area for a crack . Not sure if theres a plug in that area or not . Don"t be afraid to clean the paint & goop off . If you find the leaking are , post back . There are ways to repair a cracked block but may get expensive .Post back with pics . God bless

OK. Starter removed (grrr!) and here is a picture of what is behind the starter:

Looks like a bad plug. Maybe evidence of a previous repair. Can't tell if that is duct tape in there or not.

Jimps in GA.

 

[lha]

I have pulled many of those plugs with a drywall screw& a claw hammer---lha

 

[Anonymous-0]

Running plain water will rust those plugs out fast.I bought a Forida car that had just water in it, every plug had to be replaced.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Handles are put on by driving on the wood.Fitting new handle takes some skill.If you keep wood handled tools in a heated shop the handles will get loose.No need to tell you what happens if you hit a hammer with a hammer.Usually an eye is lost.Carpenters hammers are tempered very hard, should not be used for mechanics work.Avoid cheap import hammers.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Why not use a hammer to remove the plug ,,, theirs no reason to fight them with screws,, pullers are screwdrivers,,, they come out the same way they go in.... But if one is rusted out bad its a fight you are on yer own cuzz their are no tricks....

WARNING :shock: all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution

 

[Blaine K]

Jimps,there are 4 Welch plugs on that side of the block, one of them being right behind the starter. The plugs are the disk type of welch plug, they are 1 3/16" in size. I got my replacements at NAPA. Just drain the coolant system, drill a hole in the centre of the faulty plug and pry out with a punch. Clean out the machined recess in the block that holds the plug, apply some marine grade permatex and install the new one with a ball peen hammer. The Welch plug (disks) are convex in shape you want to insert them with the outside of the bowl towards you. Then just set the ball part of the hammer against it and give a couple good strikes with a second hammer(Brass to avoid chips flying as another member pointed out) Wear saftey glasses as well. And because your replacing one you might as well do the other three.

 

[Greybeard - PA]

Mebby you could (gulp) save that starter juice and give it to the waitress for her alternator . . .

Meaningful friendships have been started from lesser things . . .

 

[Greybeard - PA]

Mebby you could (gulp) save that starter juice and give it to the waitress for her alternator . . .

Meaningful friendships have been started from lesser things . . .

 

[Jimps]

(quoted from post at 10:47:34 02/09/10) Jimps,there are 4 Welch plugs on that side of the block, one of them being right behind the starter. The plugs are the disk type of welch plug, they are 1 3/16" in size. I got my replacements at NAPA. Just drain the coolant system, drill a hole in the centre of the faulty plug and pry out with a punch. Clean out the machined recess in the block that holds the plug, apply some marine grade permatex and install the new one with a ball peen hammer. The Welch plug (disks) are convex in shape you want to insert them with the outside of the bowl towards you. Then just set the ball part of the hammer against it and give a couple good strikes with a second hammer(Brass to avoid chips flying as another member pointed out) Wear saftey glasses as well. And because your replacing one you might as well do the other three.

I got four new Welch plugs today, so I thought I would go ahead and remove the bad one and the other three. Not much to grab onto on the bad one. Pliers were not much help, but the claw hammer worked great. Drilled the others, screwed in a screw and popped them out with the claw hammer (plywood between hammer and block!)

Here is a shot of the left side after I removed the plugs.

Notice the gunk/sludge is worse on #4, then #3 and not too bad on #2 and #1. I read somewhere that is to be expected. Looks like #4 is loaded with gunk.

#4 closeup shot:

I was going to flush the system anyway, now I can get water pressure directly into the cast where the gunk is. I'm going to flush it out tomorrow afternoon, clean the ridges and install new Welch plugs. Plan on using some sealer on them, just in case.

Didn't break anything (yet!) while getting these out. Recovered from my Tip #36 mistake (Never Again!) and looking forward to getting it all back together. Hopefully with no more Starter Fluid leaks!

Jimps in GA.

 

[GB in MT.]

[b:378d87b700][i:378d87b700]

Good job.
Sure am glad I ate supper BEFORE I saw that gunk. I'm definately NOT hungry now.!!! :lol:

Gary :shock: [/i:378d87b700][/b:378d87b700]

 

[GB in MT.]

[b:ea69b090f5][i:ea69b090f5]


Jimps; YOU GOT MAIL!!

Gary [/i:ea69b090f5][/b:ea69b090f5]