starter won't cut out

[drdave]

"48 8n 6 volt, I had a little trouble starting my n yesterday because it got wet and didn"t pop on the first try but on the third or fourth try the starter engaged and wouldn"t cut off even after turning of the ignition switch to cut the power. It kept cranking until the battery gave out. I disconnected the wire to the push button starter but it still did it. So I"m thinking the starter solenoid needs replacing but is the ignition switch and/or the push button to blame? It"s a long drive to the tractor supply store so should I just get all three?

 

[souNdguy]

Your ignition switch has nothing to do -whatsoever- with the starter, as long as it is the oem on/off switch.

If you disconnected the lil wire to the thumb-tranny switch and the starter kept going.. guess what.. it ain't the thumb switch either.

that leaves the lil wire and the solenoid.

technically.. the lil wire could be shorted to ground before it gets to the solenoid.. since that's what activates the solenoid.. t's the same as the thumb switch.

you can pull the lil wire from the solenoid.. if the contacts click open.. then that was it.. however.. with battery disconnected.. if the 2 big studs still have continuity.. then the contacts inside are welded or stuck together. while you may be able to knock them apart by tapping with a hamer.. I'd just replace it.

also.. good luck with the starter.. if you let her spin til the battery died.. well.. it wasn't too good for her health...

post back

IMHO.. you are looking at a solenoid.. or a lil wire...


( and down the road maybee a starter )

soudnguy

 

[osduck5]

And from what I have been told, a battery with low voltage will cause the solenoid contacts to weild together. I tried cranking mine with a battery that was almost drained and it did the same thing. Only way to get it to stop was to remove the battery cable.

 

[Leemo]

I've had solenoids do that when they go bad. I think that's probably your problem. Your switch and starter button are probably OK.

 

[Dell (WA)]

drdave.......you gott'chur engine started, but you need to jazz it a bitt so the Bendix unscrews, did you?

Yer OEM 2-terminal keyed ignition switch has 'nuttin' to do with yer starter solenoid.

Howsomevers; yer OEM 3-terminal starter solenoid is electrically HOT and is operated by GROUNDING the little middle terminal with the BIG thumb switch by yer tranny shifter. Since that little middle terminal wire goes thru the bottom of yer dash panel, there's a good chance that yer panel SHORTED out the HOT middle terminal wire to ground and the solenoid will obey the panel ground and ignore the spring loaded starter push button ground. Thus yer starter motor won't turn OFF.

Starter solenoid is fairly bulletproof, but HOT little middle wire INSULATION ain't bulletproof. LOOK fer SHORTS!!!

Iff'n yer starter motor continued to turn until yer batter gave out, you may have MELTED the SOLDER inside yer motor and will be looking a buying a new starter motor. And a NEW CLUTCH style starter Bendix that don't gitt hung-up. .......Dell, the shorter outter

 

[Anonymous-0]

your solenoid needs to have a good clean ground where it bolts to the starter. I have had them stick like that, then work fine after I cleand up the mounting tabs and starter case. good luck

 

[weaveman]

While everybody's guessing for ya- take an ohmeter and read across the solenoid and see if it's stuck in the closed position(start position). I'm talking about the 2 big lugs. Do that with the battery disconnected to make sure the control circuit isn't holding it closed. Or better yet just disconnect all the small wires and then check for continuity across the big lugs. Hope it helps.

 

[JMOR]

Sorry, but you can un-bolt the solenoid mechanical mounting from the starter, bend the connecting bar such that the solenoid touched nothing (still has 3 electrical terminals connected) and it will work perfectly well on a stock 8N.
No mount ground required.

 

[souNdguy]

The ground for that type of ford solenoid comes from the thumb switch / small 3rd terminal.. not the isolated / insulated mounting legs.

soundguy

 

[jack harmon]

check your solenoid,but I'd bet a dollar charging your battery will fix it!I don't know how or why, but a weak battery will cause this on these old style starters,next time it does that pull the battery cable as fast as you can,Burnt a old ford truck right to the ground when it did that!cables and starter get REAL hot REAL fast!I think,don't know,that because battery voltage is low,it causes contacts in solenoid to hang or arc together(or, a wild eyed idea,it needs the reverse voltage from the starter to help them open?)changing the voltage would cause the amperage to change theoretically which would cause them to arc more.when you disconnect battery they open,so their not welded.all old fords were bad to do this,Ive seen a hundred of them do it,but Ive never figured out how or why they did.Ive put on new solenoids and still had the same thing happen.It may have something to do with the positive ground systems,because i don't ever recall seeing one do it on a negative ground that it wasn't the solenoid.car fires were pretty common back when I was a kid,a lot of them were caused by just this thing.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:35:21 04/23/09) check your solenoid,but I'd bet a dollar charging your battery will fix it!I don't know how or why, but a weak battery will cause this on these old style starters,next time it does that pull the battery cable as fast as you can,Burnt a old ford truck right to the ground when it did that!cables and starter get REAL hot REAL fast!I think,don't know,that because battery voltage is low,it causes contacts in solenoid to hang or arc together(or, a wild eyed idea,it needs the reverse voltage from the starter to help them open?)changing the voltage would cause the amperage to change theoretically which would cause them to arc more.when you disconnect battery they open,so their not welded.all old fords were bad to do this,Ive seen a hundred of them do it,but Ive never figured out how or why they did.Ive put on new solenoids and still had the same thing happen.It may have something to do with the positive ground systems,because i don't ever recall seeing one do it on a negative ground that it wasn't the solenoid.car fires were pretty common back when I was a kid,a lot of them were caused by just this thing.

Jack, without measurements to verify, I can't be 110% sure on this, but...............a likely story would be:
Battery low, starter turns slower than normal, back-emf lower than normal, resulting in higher current draw than normal (more than solenoid contacts like). First impression is of course that since battery voltage is lower, then current will be less....and it would be if load were a resistor or light bulb, but a motor is a different animal.

 

[jack harmon]

yep,different load,if you convert to power in watts,with the starter drawing the same ampreage,you see the resistance change along with voltage.maybe at some point since solenoid is essentially floating it becomes like a potential relay?Like I say i dont have a clue as to why this happens,but it used to be a big problem!

 

[drdave]

I replaced the solenoid, $9, and all is well. I tested the solenoid when it was on the tractor and it showed continuity between the two large lugs. Before replacing the new one I bench tested it and there was no continuity between the large lugs and just for fun I tested the old one again... and guess what no continuity between the two large lugs! Apparently jostling it about while removing freed up the contacts.....anyway thanks all for the help