starting a Model D

[Lyal]

I have a 1936 Model D that I need to know the secret to starting. Once it is running it seems to run fine but it only starts after lots of sweat and blisters or if I pull it. I have not started it enough to know its "personality" but it seems to go from not getting enough gas to flooding real qick. Yesturday I tried to start it. It would pop once in a while but not start. After about an hour and it being thouroughly flooded, I tow started it. After towing for a bit it gave a backfire and started. Ran fine then.

How do I get this thing tuned to where it will start after two or three cranks?

Thanks.

 

[wisbaker]

I'm going to start on a tangent, so many older tractors with electric start get converted from 6 volt to 12 volt because of starting problems blamed on 6 volts. They started okay when new, when the engines were within manufacturer's specifications, carburetors were clean and within specification and the ignition was top notch with clean well adjust points, strong magnetos and all connections bright and shiny. I think you might be dealing with the same thing the electric start guys have only you don't have the option of doubling the starter voltage to compensate for the wear and age of your unit. You can watch u-tube videos and see if they give you any hints, maybe someone on the site will tell you what they do (that's what you're asking for anyway) and you'll learn a bit about your tractor the longer you tinker with it trying to find what works. So make sure ignition and carburetion is top notch and that the engine compression is in specification then learn. Are you trying to start it on the first spin? Some folks choke it and spin it once with the ignition off, then un-choke open throttle and turn the key on and spin it again. The first spin "primes" it the second actually starts it. IIRC on the old John Deeres you roll them to a specific point to attempt to start like bottom of the compression stroke #1 and spin from there.

 

[Cooney Minnie]

The previous post is on the right path. Make sure your carb is strong, and you've got a spark that'll light off a wet dog.

If I were you, I'd make sure the impulse drive is a 100% in the mag. That needs to wind up and release to make the spark when you are spinnning it over by hand. If that is weak, it can make for really poor hand starting, but fire right off when cranked faster- such as when you pulled it and it came to life.

You'll get there. But make sure your mag and carb are good.

PS- My 36 A needs a abundant amount of throttle (at least 1/2) and choke on the first pull or two. Then at the first fire, I quickly back off the choke. Seems to work whenever the engine's cold, no matter the weather.

 

[Emmo213]

I had a similar problem with my '41 A. My problem was I was using full choke, which was to much. As soon as I'd go about 80% everything was good. Sounds simple, but sometimes it is.

 

[mike.l]

HI i have learnt how to start my old D its not as hard as you think. but mag must be top notch and carb clean and set right first open the fuel jet a half turn more. when i start my 1930 this is how it works for me open prime cups close choke turn over compression just taking it real easy no hurry or sweat once she has rolled over compression i open the choke and bring it nearly up to fire on #1 then rol it back a little gets fuel and air well mixed then bring it up to fire and it will fire if not i go back choke it and start again. it usualy wont take more than two tries and it will fire. my 1929 gp is about the same only thing i have ever changed is i put wico x mags on both i think they give a fatter spark and cause less trouble

 

[Anonymous-0]

I have a 1937 D and it starts on first or second time over.I always run mine dry when I shut it off. When I start it I set throttle at about 1/3 open then open compression releases and set choke at full choke and turn on gas. I then give each compression release one shot of starting fliud and then spin her over. When she fires I close compression release on flywheel side and open choke 3/4 of the way and then shut the compression release on the other side. This how I've started it for 40 years.

 

[woodvue]

You should take the mag off and check it over. It sounds like you might have a weak or broken impulse spring or the impulse mechanism isn"t working properly. Maybe even send it away to be rebuilt.

 

[BushogPapa]

There should be NO need to pull "Hard" on the flywheel..(Unless it is 10 Degrees or less outside).
In which case..FORGET it, or pull it..!!
Those Babies can be STIFF in Winter..!!
Just pull it over slow until it is nearly at TDC then nudge it until you hear the Mag impulse trip..
If the Spark is GOOD and proper fuel mixture..she will roll herself right over..
Ron..

 

[Lyal]

Thanks much for your suggestions. I have had both the carb and the mag professionally rebuilt. It has been a while but hardly any running hours have been logged on either. Must still have a poor fuel mixture or weak spark. Is there a way to tell when the fuel mix is right? I will re-check the mag impulse. Is there anything specific I should look for? Thanks again.

 

[WeirdDeere]

You say you've had the mag and carb rebuilt...

I have a '38DI, and my "trick" for cold starts is as follows.

Gas on, open petcocks, tractor in neutral, clutch back

Throttle open about 1/4 to 1/3

Full choke.

Slowly spin it over until on a compression stroke, keep slowly turning til near the end of compression and then roll it over top dead center in a constant motion (no need to be too fast)

Continue this until it fires. When it fires, open the choke immediately, it might keep going (usually not). Then just keep turning over with the choke open until it fires up and runs, usually on the next compression stroke or two.

You can check your spark by removing a spark plug (or both) and laying it on the block (wire attached). Make sure the gas is OFF and roll her over, see if you see a bright blue spark as you turn it over, at the end of compression on that cylinder.

It might help to just run the tractor for a bit, and get the carburetor adjusted. If it's not quite right, it would be hard to start, but adjusted properly would make things much easier.

Brandon

 

[woodvue]

Put a pair of pliers on the impulse lug and turn it over by hand. It should have a strong spring and give a good snap when it trips, not a clunk. Also nobody has touched on your timing. Is the impulse tripping at TDC, compression stroke, #1 (flywheel side) cylinder?

 

[FrankDDavis]

When I was a young lad,I worked some for a BIL who used a '38 D. Gawd I hated that thing. BIL enjoyed watching me fight to get it started. Never showed me how it's done. When I obtained a B ten years ago I learned not to wrestle them. Little bit of throttle, choke once, and just roll the flywheel. When all is right they start so easily.

Frank

 

[Lyal]

I believe the timing is right. I will double check that first. All the feedback has me suspecting weak spark so I'll then verify the impulse is working properly, points are good and clean, maybe new spark plugs and wires. We will see where it goes from there. I at least have confidence that someday it may start easy if I can find and fix the thing(s) that aren't quite right.

 

[Lyal]

On the carburator....I believe I have it adjusted to were it should run. I don't claim alot of real knowledge here so I may not have it really right. Is there a different setting that I should use for starting versus when its running an warm?

 

[jgc]

Here is how an experienced "D" owner showed me how to start my 1938 "D".

-Fuel on
-Choke on
-Mag Off (grounding switch added by me)
-Petcocks open
-Throttle 1/3 to 1/2
-Roll over slowly until a bit of liquid gas & vapour spits out of the petcocks
-Choke OFF (very important on my "D" or it floods Immediately)
-Mag On
-Roll slowly thru TDC
-Usually fires on first or second try
-Shut Petcock immediately in flywheel side.

My only concern about this procedure is that the liquid fuel may be diluting the residual oil on the cylinder walls.


Interesting article from Stihl on Ethanol Fuels. http://everythingengines.wordpress.com/
Everythingengines

 

[WeirdDeere]

IF you have it running good, the carb settings should be good to start as is.

 

[WeirdDeere]

Uh, sorry, didn't mean to capitalize the "If", I wasn't meaning that in a sarcastic way. If you've got it set to run good, it should start good there too.

Brandon