Starting Issue

[steveM*#@]

I just bought 1947 Ford 8n. It was converted to 12v but it was not done correctly. Had to jump solenoid to start it. It ran okay. I striped out old wiring and rewired and it turns over great and fires right away but bendix kicks out on starter before it will start now. I messed with carb adjustment. Now it won't even fire.i messed up setting. Anyway, what changed? Why would it briefly fire and kick out of cranking. Do I need another starter, tune up, or a change in weather? I will figure out carburetor, I think, if I can just get it started again.

 

[stevieb49829]

Sounds like a timing issue to me. steve

 

[old]

I just bought 1947 Ford 8n. It was converted to 12v but it was not done correctly. Had to jump solenoid to start it. It ran okay. I striped out old wiring and rewired and it turns over great and fires right away but bendix kicks out on starter before it will start now. I messed with carb adjustment. Now it won't even fire.i messed up setting. Anyway, what changed? Why would it briefly fire and kick out of cranking. Do I need another starter, tune up, or a change in weather? I will figure out carburetor, I think, if I can just get it started again.

I'd trouble shoot it
#1 check that you have a good blue/white spark at each plug that jumps a 1/4 inch gap or more
#2 pull the carb drain plug and make sure you have a good steady flow of gas that will fill a pint jar in less then 2 minutes.
#3 pull the air cleaner tube off the carb and make sure you don't have a lot of gas as in it is flooded
#4 if you have spark and gas as you should hold your hand over the air intake and see if it tries to fire/run
Do these things in order to lower the risk of fire

 

[steveM*#@]

I'd trouble shoot it
#1 check that you have a good blue/white spark at each plug that jumps a 1/4 inch gap or more
#2 pull the carb drain plug and make sure you have a good steady flow of gas that will fill a pint jar in less then 2 minutes.
#3 pull the air cleaner tube off the carb and make sure you don't have a lot of gas as in it is flooded
#4 if you have spark and gas as you should hold your hand over the air intake and see if it tries to fire/run
Do these things in order to lower the risk of fire

Okay, will do those things. Thank you so much for your advice!

 

[Bruce(VA)]

I just bought 1947 Ford 8n. It was converted to 12v but it was not done correctly. Had to jump solenoid to start it. It ran okay. I striped out old wiring and rewired and it turns over great and fires right away but bendix kicks out on starter before it will start now. I messed with carb adjustment. Now it won't even fire.i messed up setting. Anyway, what changed? Why would it briefly fire and kick out of cranking. Do I need another starter, tune up, or a change in weather? I will figure out carburetor, I think, if I can just get it started again.

You can get the newer style bendix or you can do a tune up on the tractor.



It works like this......the bendix engages the ring gear on the flywheel & turns the engine over. When the engine speed exceeds the design speed of the bendix (because the engine is running) it disengages. (and I can never remember what RPM that is) All the new style bendix does is allow a higher engine speed before it disengages.



What is happening in your engine is that 1 or 2 plugs fire, the engine momentarily exceeds the bendix disengage RPM.....and it disengages before you have all 4 firing.



If you want to tune it up, just ask; plenty of folks can walk you through that (but see tip # 39 first). The correct point gap and timing are critical to a quick start.



And, if you want to pull the starter & replace the bendix, just ask about that as well.

You can get the newer style bendix or you can do a tune up on the tractor.

75 Tips for Ford N Owners

forums.yesterdaystractors.com

 

[Lynn Patrick]

I agree w/all that has been said & just want to add that point setting & timing are connected & VERY important. Close may not count!

 

[Eman85]

Did you wire it correctly using the neutral safety switch and the correct solenoid? You could have a bad bendix on the starter. They can be a pain to change but much better to replace just the bendix. I would repair the original starter and stay away from a replacement.

 

[steveM*#@]

Did you wire it correctly using the neutral safety switch and the correct solenoid? You could have a bad bendix on the starter. They can be a pain to change but much better to replace just the bendix. I would repair the original starter and stay away from a replacement.

Yes, it is wired correctly. I used the thumb switch. The solenoid I believe is correct. It turns offer and fires then starter spins. I did 3 of the four things. Checked for steady stream of gas, checked for spark on all four cylinders, and pulled the breather off . No change. How hard is it to change out the starter. I have spark, fuel, and air. Why does it not start. I found it strange that this starting Issue started right after I did a proper wiring job on 12v conversion.

 

[Eman85]

Six million dollar questions, how did you check spark? How did you check fuel stream? Why does it not start?, good question. Compression good spark and quality fuel at the right time and an engine starts.
Starter requires holding your tongue in just the right position, it can be tedious and it's awkward and heavy. The bolts that hold the starter on also hold the starter together.

 

[steveM*#@]

Six million dollar questions, how did you check spark? How did you check fuel stream? Why does it not start?, good question. Compression good spark and quality fuel at the right time and an engine starts.
Starter requires holding your tongue in just the right position, it can be tedious and it's awkward and heavy. The bolts that hold the starter on also hold the starter together.

I used an old spark plug. I gapped it at about a quarter inch. Turned the key on and pressed the thumb button. I did each cylinder right down the line. Had good blue spark right down the line. Fuel stream: I pulled drain plug on bottom of carburator and used a pint canning jar. Filled jar about half full or more in 2 minutes. The timing I didn't check because it was running great a few days ago. It started this after I corrected the wiring on the less than perfect 12V conversion. Just seems weird that timing magically changes.

 

[old]

I used an old spark plug. I gapped it at about a quarter inch. Turned the key on and pressed the thumb button. I did each cylinder right down the line. Had good blue spark right down the line. Fuel stream: I pulled drain plug on bottom of carburator and used a pint canning jar. Filled jar about half full or more in 2 minutes. The timing I didn't check because it was running great a few days ago. It started this after I corrected the wiring on the less than perfect 12V conversion. Just seems weird that timing magically changes.

Sounds like the timing maybe off a little bit so it fires and kicks the starter out instead of running due to being timed a bit to far advanced

 

[used red MN]

Hello Steve, welcome to YT! All I would like to add is when you thought your tractor has been running right but then things seem to take a turn for the worse her is a good thing to keep in mind. If you’re going to mess with the carb settings first find out where they are set at. To do this you place a start mark on the side of the screw and count the turns of the needles as you screw it in until it lightly seated. Now you can turn it back to that spot if you think the changes you are making might be more of a hindrance than a help. I would also suggest you check the mechanical spark advance to see if it may be sticking. I am not sure what the exact process for doing that is on a front mount distributor.

 

[steveM*#@]

Thank you. I have now done that. I placed a mark on it early this morning. I agree on distributor stuff. I was hoping to avoid doing all that but yes. The is my second n8. I had a 51 for 9 years and used it to plant a small vineyard. They are wonderful tractors.

 

[stevieb49829]

I skimmed through this, so don't know if this has been answered: Are your plug wires in the right firing order? Someone on here very recently found they had made a mistake on putting the wires back in the distributor, and when they fixed the order it fired right up and purred. steve

 

[steveM*#@]

I skimmed through this, so don't know if this has been answered: Are your plug wires in the right firing order? Someone on here very recently found they had made a mistake on putting the wires back in the distributor, and when they fixed the order it fired right up and purred. steve

Yes, they are correct. I going to reset timing next. I pulled distributor and coil today. Everything looks good. I just need to figure out how to slightly advance the timing. I have never had to time one before. Seems complicated.

 

[used red MN]

Better pull your plugs out and check that they are not covered with black soot. This means they are rich fouled. If you’re putt..putt..putting it when it fires and only runs a short time and you are full choking it that is the type of fouling that this can cause. If they are black get some carb cleaner, hand wire brush and a compressed air hose. Clamp them in the vise porcelain down. Spray carb cleaner on the business end and scrub it with the wire brush at all angles. Hold a rag over it and blast it with compressed air, REPEAT. Do each one. Then see if they all fire at a plug wire then put them back in.

 

[stevieb49829]

Yes, they are correct. I going to reset timing next. I pulled distributor and coil today. Everything looks good. I just need to figure out how to slightly advance the timing. I have never had to time one before. Seems complicated.

Timing is pretty easy, IF you pay attention to which way your rotor rotates. You barely loosen up the distributor so it will barely turn, and then slightly turn the distributor either against, or in the same direction as the rotation. Now this part confuses me often, so others may chime in to correct me. Moving the distributor in the same direction as the rotor rotation, you are advancing the spark (making it fire sooner in the rotation). Turning the distributor against the rotation will retard the spark, making it fire later in the rotation. If you watch your timing marks as the timing light lights them up, the flashes basically make it look like the pointer and the moving marks are standing still. As you turn the distributor one way or the other, the moving mark will move slightly away from the pointer and stay there if you quit rotating the distributor. There are specifications for how far away from the moving mark the pointer is supposed to be. Sometimes the correct spot on the flywheel/ damper/pulley is already marked. Sometimes there are multiple marks that you need to figure out. Most engines are set to spark slightly (a few degrees) advanced of TDC. Top Dead Center is the position of the #1 piston when it is exactly at the top of its stroke, and is usually marked as a reference point on the flywheel/damper/pulley. steve

 

[steveM*#@]

Yes, they are correct. I going to reset timing next. I pulled distributor and coil today. Everything looks good. I just need to figure out how to slightly advance the timing. I have never had to time one before. Seems complicated.

Also, I will check gap on the points. I think that's it. If it doesn't start after this. It maybe an unsolved mystery.

I skimmed through this, so don't know if this has been answered: Are your plug wires in the right firing order? Someone on here very recently found they had made a mistake on putting the wires back in the distributor, and when they fixed the order it fired right up and purred. steve

8

Better pull your plugs out and check that they are not covered with black soot. This means they are rich fouled. If you’re putt..putt..putting it when it fires and only runs a short time and you are full choking it that is the type of fouling that this can cause. If they are black get some carb cleaner, hand wire brush and a compressed air hose. Clamp them in the vise porcelain down. Spray carb cleaner on the business end and scrub it with the wire brush at all angles. Hold a rag over it and blast it with compressed air, REPEAT. Do each one. Then see if they all fire at a plug wire then put them back in.

Thank you. I will do that today. Thank you.

 

[Eman85]

Did you repair the starter problem or did it somehow fix itself? Timing doesn't magically change by itself so don't move the distributor for no reason. Mark anything before moving it.

 

[old]

Also, I will check gap on the points. I think that's it. If it doesn't start after this. It maybe an unsolved mystery.

8

Thank you. I will do that today. Thank you.

So you say you check the point gap is it 0.015??? That is what it should be