Starting Issue

[wore out]

Timing is pretty easy, IF you pay attention to which way your rotor rotates. You barely loosen up the distributor so it will barely turn, and then slightly turn the distributor either against, or in the same direction as the rotation. Now this part confuses me often, so others may chime in to correct me. Moving the distributor in the same direction as the rotor rotation, you are advancing the spark (making it fire sooner in the rotation). Turning the distributor against the rotation will retard the spark, making it fire later in the rotation. If you watch your timing marks as the timing light lights them up, the flashes basically make it look like the pointer and the moving marks are standing still. As you turn the distributor one way or the other, the moving mark will move slightly away from the pointer and stay there if you quit rotating the distributor. There are specifications for how far away from the moving mark the pointer is supposed to be. Sometimes the correct spot on the flywheel/ damper/pulley is already marked. Sometimes there are multiple marks that you need to figure out. Most engines are set to spark slightly (a few degrees) advanced of TDC. Top Dead Center is the position of the #1 piston when it is exactly at the top of its stroke, and is usually marked as a reference point on the flywheel/damper/pulley. steve

''Moving the distributor in the same direction as the rotor rotation, you are advancing the spark (making it fire sooner in the rotation). Turning the distributor against the rotation will retard the spark, making it fire later in the rotation.''

That is exactly BACKWARDS!

 

[used red MN]

''Moving the distributor in the same direction as the rotor rotation, you are advancing the spark (making it fire sooner in the rotation). Turning the distributor against the rotation will retard the spark, making it fire later in the rotation.''

That is exactly BACKWARDS!

wo Had me going there until I got to the last sentence!

 

[Jim L WA]

Steve M. Says it's a '47 8N. That would make it a front mount distributor. No turning it to change timing.
Like Eman85 asked, did the starter kicking out repair itself?

 

[lha]

I just bought 1947 Ford 8n. It was converted to 12v but it was not done correctly. Had to jump solenoid to start it. It ran okay. I striped out old wiring and rewired and it turns over great and fires right away but bendix kicks out on starter before it will start now. I messed with carb adjustment. Now it won't even fire.i messed up setting. Anyway, what changed? Why would it briefly fire and kick out of cranking. Do I need another starter, tune up, or a change in weather? I will figure out carburetor, I think, if I can just get it started again.

When my 6v battery was weak about 8 years ago,I started it easily with the crank handle. I turned it one revolution with the key off,then set it at about 1/4 choke and the throttle on the second position,and it started 1/2 way through the first revolution. The distributor isn't a bad job as long as You set the points correctly,then check the timing. also put it in carefully,aligning the cam end slot with the tab on the distributor shaft.

 

[wore out]

wo Had me going there until I got to the last sentence!

You did notice I was quoting "stevieb49829", right? (Reply 17.)

 

[steveM*#@]

Did you repair the starter problem or did it somehow fix itself? Timing doesn't magically change by itself so don't move the distributor for no reason. Mark anything before moving it.

Reporting some progress. I reported yesterday that everything looked good in the distributor. I could not have been more mistaken. I checked the gap on the points and was surprised that they wuld barely open. They were way off. To make it worse, they could not open any wider. Someone had used the wrong screw to lock it down and decided to just go with it. The points looked good, so I used a proper screw and set them to specs. Then I started the process of setting the timing and ran into another crazy issue. The lock down bolt for the timing plate was stripped and the plate was as free as a bird. I found a new one in my shop and replaced the stripped one. I set the timing per the instructions. I have not put it back together yet. I am waiting on new fuel line. It was leaking like the glen canyon dam. Did not want a fire. When they delivered it, they fired it up and backed off trailer and drove it to my shop a few hundred yards. I started it a few times after that and it ran but now I am not sure how. I am not sure I fixed it but at least the points are set and timing plate is locked. I may not have set it right but I will soon find out when parts arrive.

 

[steveM*#@]

So you say you check the point gap is it 0.015??? That is what it should be

Is it .015 or .025??. I set the points at .025.

 

[steveM*#@]

Is it .015 or .025??. I set the points at .025.

It is .015. I will reset them. Thank you.

 

[deanostoybox]

Is it .015 or .025??. I set the points at .025.

front mount is 0.015, side mount is 0.025

 

[stevieb49829]

''Moving the distributor in the same direction as the rotor rotation, you are advancing the spark (making it fire sooner in the rotation). Turning the distributor against the rotation will retard the spark, making it fire later in the rotation.''

That is exactly BACKWARDS!

I did say it confused me most of the time. I even tried to draw it out. It didn't FEEL right but that's what my brain told me. Thanks for fixing that. steve

 

[steveM*#@]

Steve M. Says it's a '47 8N. That would make it a front mount distributor. No turning it to change timing.
Like Eman85 asked, did the starter kicking out repair itself?

I don't know. When I get the distributor back in with clean spark plugs and new fuel line. I will see. I am waiting on fuel line. It was leaking very bad. I was worried about a fire.

 

[steveM*#@]

Well I had one of those days. I fixed the gas leak and decided to try and start the 1947 8n. I managed to get the distributor and coil back in (with some difficulty). I cleaned the plugs and charged the battery. I drained the old gas and put in fresh 100 percent gas. I turned on the gas. I turned on the key. Hot the thumb button and nothing. It cranked like a new one spinning the motor l but nothing. I pulled the plugs and checked for spark. Nothing, there was absolutely no spark. I made it worse.

Not only that I had bought an after market altemeter. It didn't quite fit. I tried pushing it in and cracked the lens. It was a piece of crap. I threw it out in the pasture. Anybody know where I can get one that will fit?

I was very confident that I had fixed the problem but no I made it worse. I guess I need to pay the $85.00 to the guy that makes measuring device to set the timing. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks.

 

[steveM*#@]

Well I had one of those days. I fixed the gas leak and decided to try and start the 1947 8n. I managed to get the distributor and coil back in (with some difficulty). I cleaned the plugs and charged the battery. I drained the old gas and put in fresh 100 percent gas. I turned on the gas. I turned on the key. Hit the thumb button and nothing. It cranked like a new one spinning the motor... but nothing. I pulled the plugs and checked for spark. Nothing, there was absolutely no spark. I made it worse.

Not only that I had bought an after market ammeter. It didn't quite fit. I tried pushing it in and cracked the lens. It was a piece of crap. I threw it out in the pasture. Anybody know where I can get one that will fit?

I was very confident that I had fixed the problem but no I made it worse. I guess I need to pay the $85.00 to the guy that makes measuring jig to set the timing. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks

 

[deanostoybox]

Well I had one of those days. I fixed the gas leak and decided to try and start the 1947 8n. I managed to get the distributor and coil back in (with some difficulty). I cleaned the plugs and charged the battery. I drained the old gas and put in fresh 100 percent gas. I turned on the gas. I turned on the key. Hit the thumb button and nothing. It cranked like a new one spinning the motor... but nothing. I pulled the plugs and checked for spark. Nothing, there was absolutely no spark. I made it worse.

Not only that I had bought an after market altemeter. It didn't quite fit. I tried pushing it in and cracked the lens. It was a piece of crap. I threw it out in the pasture. Anybody know where I can get one that will fit?

I was very confident that I had fixed the problem but no I made it worse. I guess I need to pay the $85.00 to the guy that makes measuring device to set the timing. Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks

First, you will not find a new ammeter that fits. They may say 2", but they are all 52mm. The hole needs to be enlarged by 1.2mm for a new gauge to fit. Unless you can find a "new old stock" made in the USA back in the day.

As for the timing jig, https://windyridgefarm.us/TimingJig.php or https://www.ebay.com/itm/155647812491 will get you one for less money. And the timing is not that critical on a front mount distributor. If advanced a bit it may cause the Bendix to kick out, but will not prevent it from making spark.

You said "I managed to get the distributor and coil back in (with some difficulty)." The front mount distributor can be a pain to deal with. It is best to put it on assembled as a complete unit, and tested with a meter to insure the primary circuit is complete and not shorted before you put it on. And mark the plug wires before you take it off so you know you are getting them back in the correct order when you put it back on.

 

[steveM*#@]

First, you will not find a new ammeter that fits. They may say 2", but they are all 52mm. The hole needs to be enlarged by 1.2mm for a new gauge to fit. Unless you can find a "new old stock" made in the USA back in the day.

As for the timing jig, https://windyridgefarm.us/TimingJig.php or https://www.ebay.com/itm/155647812491 will get you one for less money. And the timing is not that critical on a front mount distributor. If advanced a bit it may cause the Bendix to kick out, but will not prevent it from making spark.

You said "I managed to get the distributor and coil back in (with some difficulty)." The front mount distributor can be a pain to deal with. It is best to put it on assembled as a complete unit, and tested with a meter to insure the primary circuit is complete and not shorted before you put it on. And mark the plug wires before you take it off so you know you are getting them back in the correct order when you put it back on.

I was wrong. It is making spark. I just didn't see it. I am back to fire and starter kicking out again. Thanks on gauges. I will have to drill the holes a bit and buy another gauge. Thanks

 

[old]

I was wrong. It is making spark. I just didn't see it. I am back to fire and starter kicking out again. Thanks on gauges. I will have to drill the holes a bit and buy another gauge. Thanks

Are the points set to 0.015 and did you time it as per the manual

 

[steveM*#@]

Are the points set to 0.015 and did you time it as per the manual

Yes, I did.

 

[steveM*#@]

I am not convinced it is timing. I will double check wiring. Could solenoid be weak or coil. Do they have to hold a constant voltage to starter during starting process? What about starter again? This shouldn't be this complex? Anybody have any thoughts?

 

[deanostoybox]

I am not convinced it is timing. I will double check wiring. Could solenoid be weak or coil. Do they have to hold a constant voltage to starter during starting process? What about starter again? This shouldn't be this complex? Anybody have any thoughts?

Where are you setting the throttle when trying to start? I have a 52 8N with the old style bendix. If I try to start it with throttle lever in idle position it will kick out the bendix every time. If the throttle lever is about half all it takes is a tap on the starter button and it fires up and runs. I have a 51 8N with the new style bendix. If for any reason it fails to start, the bendix will not disengage the flywheel until the engine does start.

Nothing to do with solenoid, it is only a switch. As soon as the engine first fires the load on the starter is reduced so voltage goes back up at that point so unlikely that spark is getting week or going away at that point.

 

[Lynn Patrick]

I had an 8N that would fire quickly, but if it didn't keep running it would NOT start w/out a small shot of ether. I thought I had everything set where it should be, but after I (finally) re-checked (again) the point setting & timing (& found them not EXACTLY where they should be!) & was VERY persnickety in getting them EXACTLY right it never failed to start. I'll grant you it was a side mount where setting the timing is different, but my point is that sometimes what I thought good enough was simply not good enough, & that point setting changes the timing!