Starting problems

[Anonymous-0]

My 8n has been hard starting for years now, It's time to convert to 12 volt, I have a old Datsun Alt that I've had for years from a old Datsun 310 I use to own, Can someone tell me how to wire this alt to my 8n thanks.

C.F.

 

[Anonymous-0]

First of all..... what is mak'N the 8N hard to start?

Why convert to 12 Volt system?

If'N you have corroded wires, that could be the problem.

HTH...John,PA

 

[Bruce (VA)]

If it won't start on 6 volts, what makes you think it will start on 12v? You might want to fix the hard starting problem on your N before you spend $200 to find out it had a bad cable or connection. From my experience, I've only found two reasons to convert an N to 12v: If you need to run 12v equipment (sprayers, pumps, lights, etc) or you N has poor compression (like less than 90 lbs) and you do not want to rebuild it, then a 12v conversion makes sense. Otherwise, you will likely be trading one set of problems for another. If your N is hard to start in cold weather (or any weather) find out why & fix it! These tractors have low compression, low HP engines and will start just fine on 6v. There is nothing inherently 'wrong' w/ a 12v conversion. The problem is that there are about 6 different ways to convert the tractor to 12v, all of them work, and an infinite number of ways to do it wrong. It's like this......if you have a basic understanding of tractor mechanics, you can buy a quality kit & do it correctly. Or, if you are really good, you can put one together from parts for $50 or so. But, if you are that good of a mechanic, you can fix the hard to start problem & keep it 6v!

All three of my N's are 6v & they all three start the first time, every time, no matter what the weather. You will find that to be the case with folks who live in a lot of places much colder than VA.
50 Tips

 

[Tom N MS]

Fix the problem that is causing the hard starting and keep the 6 volts..My Dad has a 2N with 6 volts and it has always and still starts before it turns over a complete turn..Mine is 12 volts only because it had nothing when I got it...

 

[jim(SE-Mich)]

Why are people against upgrading to 12 volt?
Because they do not realize the tremendous benefit from changing to 12 volt.
Between 12 volts and electronic ignition this is the smartest improvement you can ever make to a 9N,2N,8N, or Jubilee.
Why don't any automobile manufacturers in the world still use 6 volt system? Because it will fire when damp and when plugs are not quite perfectly clean, almost impossible to flood out, and recharges battery within seconds and numerous other benefits.
I say go for it. 72 years and owned a 9N,2N,8N, and now a Jubilee with 12 volt and electronic ignition.
Jim

 

[Anonymous-0]

Are YOU back from "supper" yet???????????

 

[Bruce (VA)]

What about fuel injection? That's a great improvement over these old carbs.

The reason the automotive industry went to 12 volt was because of the higher horsepower, higher compression engines & the transistors in the car radios. Pretty soon, the automotive industry will go to 24v; does that mean all of these 12v N's will need to go to 24v as well?

As I said above, there are 2 legitimate reasons to convert to 12v. I've not had a problem w/ my three N's on 6v w/ points.

 

[jim(SE-Mich)]

His question was how to wire his alternator.
He did not ask if he should make the change.
He was not asking for advise on wheather he should make the change.
He did still has not got the answer he asked for.
He simply wants to know if anyone can help him with the wiring of an alternator.
Jim

 

[Anonymous-0]

I am just too young to know this stuff.

John,PA

I like keep'N everything as ORIGINAL as I can, for some reason.

 

[Peter, Covington, LA]

Someone further down this thread noted that your question was not whether, but how.

After you've figured out a mount for the alternator, which is going to be the hard part, then you need only to know how the alternator was wired in the car it came in.

If the alternator had an external regulator, you will need that. If it has an internal regulator, you won't need anything else but wires, and either an LED indicator lamp or a diode.

Here's the deal - alternators need voltage to "excite" them. The way you regulate their output is to intermittently or completely stop the excitation voltage. That's what the regulator does, by measuring the voltage of the battery and deciding how much juice is needed from the alternator to charge the battery to full voltage.

The alternator that comes with 12 volt conversion packages for N's is a late 1980's Chevrolet pickup truck (no air conditioning) alternator. It has an internal regulator, and only one wire leading from it. That wire goes to the ammeter, on the side opposite the battery, so the ammeter can tell you what's going on. But, since the exciting juice comes down the same wire as the outgoing juice, there needs to be something to keep the alternator from being excited when the engine's not running. You can use a diode, or an LED lamp which does what the 'idiot light' in your modern car does - glows when the alternator isn't charging.

Without the diode, what happens is that you turn off the ignition and the alternator keeps putting out juice which goes directly to the coil, and the tractor keeps right on running, just like the ignition was still on! You panic and stall the engine, then the whole rig just keeps on cooking until something burns out - usually the most expensive part.

It gets more complicated as the different kinds of alternators and wiring plans pile up. If you are using an alternator from an old car, my best advice would be to go on-line and see if you can find the wiring diagram for that particular model. Then try to isolate the charging circuit from all the other junk, and follow it. Just be sure to fix it so the alternator is disconnected from the battery when the ignition is turned off.

Best of luck!

 

[Dell (WA)]

Jim........pay attention, there is NOTHING WRONG with a well done 12-volt conversion. CONVERT for the RIGHT REASON. Most 12-volt conversions are "band-aides" for sick and tired engines ...or... because Billy-Jim-Bob down at the corner spit'n'whistle sez "yep, thats the thing to do" as he takes 'nutter' draw on his barley-pop with self-satisfied smile of superiority as he advises the electrically challenged tractor nuebie.

None of these advisor's said NOT to convert, they all said "fix the reason" for hard starting, FIRST. Then they ask Craig to consider whether he still wants to convert to 12-volts with a non-common alternator from Datsun. (its really probably Nippon-Denso) then go ahead. ........respectfully, Dell a 12-volt advocate for the right reasons. That said, I haven't found the right reason for my eazy starting 6-volt 52-8N. I know 8-ways to convert to 12-volts and they all work.

But I don't know 'nuttin' about Datsun alternators. And obviously, Jim doesn't either.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thank you very much for your DIRECT answer to my question !
You were by far the most helpful !

I will get back to you on my results of my conversion.

Thanks again G.F.

 

[Anonymous-0]

You are so right, After reading through a dozen replies that didn't answer my question AT ALL and one guy bragging that he knows "8 Ways to do it right" but won't even share 1 of his methods with me, Peter was the only one that came through with flying colors.

C.G.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

I apologize for wasting your time & not being helpful. Perhaps I, along w/ about 3 other folks, should just learn to answer the question & not offer to actually help solve the problem. Sort of like when you go to the doctor w/ shortness of breath and a pain in your chest and ask him to prescribe a pain killer. Yep, maybe that's what we all need to learn.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Did you ask for help on converting to 12v? No, you did not. You asked how to wire a Datsun alternator. And Dell told you he did not know how. And, neither do I.

Make sure you specify in future posts that you are not seeking help or advice, just a direct answer to your questions. That will save you a lot of time reading through the unhelpful replies. I'm sure you will get plenty of assistance from folks around here that appreciate being told they are not helpful.

 

[Anonymous-0]

That's all I ask !
Thank you

 

[teddy52food]

If there is a shop in your area that fixes generators and alternators, they should know how to wire it. Also they will know if the regulator is internal or external.

 

[Anonymous-0]

check for 5 sources of identification.

 

[Ross Pugh(NC)]

All the 6 volt lovers need to rake the chips off their shoulders every time someone mentions a 12 volt conversion or just not reply. Everyone is not originality advocate to the letter, some like to have the convenienc of 12 volts. It is their tractor, don't get your feathers ruffled because you don't like their choice. Let's live and let live, and help our fellow N'ers out, if'N we can, OK.

 

[Dunk]

Ross, as long as mine does what it is supposed to, right then, when I want it to do it, I could care less if it is 24v.

But you know what, mine does that, at 6v... just like it came.. with my 6v posi ground, Chevy alternator, that I had special built for the old girl..

If I had lights, I would probably do something dumb, like ride all over the woods at night, drunk.

I already do that on the 4 wheeler...

 

[Ross Pugh(NC)]

Dunk, if I had a 6 volt I would try to maintain it and leave it 6 volt, but both of mine were 12 volt when I got 'em and working fine so I am gonna leave 'em alone. You be careful riding in them woods while drinking, you remember the song that said " I saw 2 trees and I went between 'em", don't you. Don't want to miss you on here. You behave and don't over do it. You are old enuf to know yer limit.

 

[Anonymous-0]

When I am feeling down I read all the 12 volt conversions and get a good laugh.I parked my 640 on Dec 3.Backed a trailer load of fire wood into the shed.On Dec 3 we got 18 inches of snow.After that we got more snow every 3 days or so.I checked the battery with a hydrometer once a month.It said full charge on March 1.I went out today, turned on the gas and sat on the seat.Turned on the ignition and saw 5 amp drain on the ammeter.Set the throttle at 1/3 ,pulled the choke out and pressed the starter button.The old Ford started right up.Still 6 volt ,no battery maintainers or chargers.No fuel stabilizers.Tractor wheels are locked in ice,spring is going to be late this year.Every time I see transistor ignition,Alternators,high voltage coils,12 v batteries, battery maintainers I wonder why.I put new points,condenser and new plugs in the tractor 15 years ago when I bought it.Once the ice melts Ill change the oil and filter.The starter drive and brushes will be checked and thepoint gap checked.The gas shut off valve opens and closes with my fingers now.A few oz of marvel mystrey oil last year jambed the valve so bad it took a big screwdriver to open it.The MMO must have swelled the O ring.The tractor teaches me something new every day..

 

[Anonymous-0]

You cant charge a battery in seconds.It takes 10 miles of driving to replace energy used to start an engine.My 6v tractor hasnt been used in 4 months.It started right up to day.I checked the battery monthly with a hydrometer.Why should I spend money on an unneeded 12 volt conversion.

 

[Anonymous-0]

a datsun alternator will cost 120.00 to replace.Delco 30.00.My 6v tractor started fine today after being idle for 4 months.I think 12 v conversions are like bottled water and hula hoops.Kid sees one and he wants it.No battery maintainers or chargers.just monthly hydrometer checks.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Dont like wasting money just because some one else does.A 12 volt battery doubles your chances of having a dead cell.I use a sprayer that has a 12 volt battery of its own.The 12v conversions are good for laughs.My tractor, 6 volt started fine after 4 months idle time.No battery maintainers from china,no fires after lightning strikes on the power line.