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Stimulus package

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You know guys, I'm willing to take every dollar anyone is willing to give me, don't get me wrong on that. But honestly who are these nuts in Washington trying to impress. Do they really think that what they are sending out is really going to make a dent in what we are coping with these days with fuel prices, food prices, insurance prices and so on. Get real guys, if they really want to help the economy, work out a deal with OPEC and the tree huggers to get us some $2.50 a gallon or less gas and diesel so we can have the hope of a future.
Gas prices are going to bring this country to its knees and it seems no one cares.
When are the people in our country going to say enough is enough and maybe we could see some relief.
I would like to see made in the USA mean something again and if we don't start soon we won't have anyone left in this country that knows how to do anything but wear the jeans down around their ankles and have a face full of piercings and tattoo's from head to toe and lets don't forget having those cap bills all whopped out of shape over to the side.
Yes I do have some pet pieves in case you didn't notice.
 
one tank of gas, one tank of diesel and one week of groceries and it's gone. now if the gubberment really wants to 'stimulate' the economy, then send me a check for $5000 or more. then i would have something to spend and save.
 
Hurry, run as fast as you can. The sky is falling.

I heard this same kind of "the world is ending" crapola when gas reached one dollar per gallon.
Those that chose to sit and cry about it now are the same ones that did it back then.

Where were all you doom and gloomers a few years ago when the nnalert were in charge and the stock market was reaching new records?

Now that the nnalert are in charge gas has gone crazy and all they talk about is a recession that they are sure is heading our way. I sure haven't seen it as I'm very busy and am having a great year.
 
Uh sorry Hay, only the biggies get the big checks. ie General Motors, General electric, Wal-mart, CBS, and the crowd on Wall street, Us little guys don't count for nothin'. But I'm gonna use mine to buy that old Jack Danials by the case. <- not a tractor, a container.
Don
 
I earn too much to qualify for these stimulus checks but what do you mean when you say GE GM and others get the big ones?
 
I like knowing people that make alot of money. We don't hang out together much 'cause while I'm fishing, working on my tractors or doing a little drinking or going to tractor shows........ they're making alot of money. Lots of money but have no fun. Enjoy life and just think the United States is 222 years old, and the world is several million years old and you are----. So does it really make a d--m in the scheme of things?

Don
 
Its all a big circle. Gas price go up then trucking then milk etc. Till we can not afford any thing and then the farmer has to stop planting his crop then food goes up more and then we go around again and again. We we get on that tax rebate will not do much more then fill your gas tank once if your lucky and you still will not have fuel for your tractor so who knows maybe when the CEOs of the gas companys find they are getting hungry they will drop fuel price but then it will be to late and some one will have to throw more money out there just so we can get going again. Depression here we come unless some one some place gets a clue as to what is happening
 
Then when you get your check have a beer for me. Afterall, I'm the one paying taxes so everyone else can get something for nothing.
 
The lack of understanding of the over all picture and looking at it as what this little amount of money does on an individual basis does confuse the issue. If as you say you buy a coupla tanks of gas and it is gone, but what are you going to spend the money on that you would have spent on those coupla tanks of gas. We are a country of over 300 million. If every one put even ten bucks in there sock and did not spend it in any way for a year the country would show an economic turn down. After that year every one went out and spent it the country would have an economic up turn. Putting money in savings still keeps the money in the economy. It does not take deep thought but it does take some thought beyond our own pocket book.
 
I guess most of you are Kids I went though this stuff twice in the 70s and 80s believe me the next thing you know gas will be dirt cheap again and you will be almost unhappy about that too.
Walt
 
What happened in the 70s and 80s does not come close to what is happening now. Ya prices of fuel went up but not like it has this time and money was not near as tight back then as it is now. In 1974 I bought my one and only brand new car and filled the tank the first time with a $5 bill and got change back. By June it cost $10 to fill it. 23 Gal. tank But now to fill a 20 gal tank it costs you $60, or it did 2 days ago.
 
Man now I know you are Kid we a were paying about the same per gallon adjusted to inflation as gas is right now. An it went to over twice that amount that would be like paying $8 to $10 dollars a gallon right now.
Walt
 
Walt, you are a man of wisdom and experience.

I survived the Carter era where EVERY construction worker I knew was out of a job. What is going on right now is nothing in comparison.

Some of these kids could sure use some growin' up.
 
I've been around long enough to know of Carter, Ford, Regan, and both Bushes plus a few others. The big problem is food and fuel is not figured into to inflation if it was things would be different
 
Old, I am guilty of marrying anything I buy, I just never seem to get rid of it, I bought a new Ford pick up in 78, but I quit driving it a year ago when it cost more to fill the tank than the payment was on a two year note!
 
(quoted from post at 11:36:59 04/25/08) I guess most of you are Kids I went though this stuff twice in the 70s and 80s believe me the next thing you know gas will be dirt cheap again and you will be almost unhappy about that too.
Walt
Click to expand...
In the winter of 1985 gas was over a dollar a gallon. My unit went to Korea for training and when we came back, it had drorred to about 68 cents (2 months later). We are (Americans in Germany) are getting ready to pay just over a dollar per liter starting Monday. Keep your head up and don't forget who you are, things'll get better.

Dave
 
I really think this is impacting different groups of people different ways. People that have a lot of money, gas and food are incidental expenses. For the middle class on down, fuel and food are big hitters. For somebody making 50,000 per year, a $5,000 fuel bill that morphs into a $10,000 fuel bill is a disaster. My boss has a company car, company credit card, company gas. To him, $5 gas would be a non event. To me it would be a PIA !!
 
I agree with you. I only speak for me, but I am sure I represent many. I am not buying anything extra. We have a beef, a pig, a deer, and 80#'s of chicken in the freezer, but everything else we need to feed ourselves and 3 kids has really increased, which if it was the farmer that was reaping the net profits I wouldnt care, most food is still cheap. Gas is really hurting. The money we would have been spending into the economy is being eating up in fuel, medical premiems and deductables, and food. I am not gonna go out and spend that check they are sending me. It is going into the highest interest cd I can find, or I am gonna buy more land, if and when it becomes available, but that is me. The wife on the other hand has it in her head that she has to buy that darned orange Dodge Avenger in town. Seems she has wore the minivan out. I tried telling her $18,000 towards that 20 acres will be worth a heck of alot more in 10 years than that darned ol car will be worth. You men all know how that is gonna turn out, but then she works too. I cant see fuel going down untill Ethanol goes away, the war ends, or Rosie Odonnel goes straight. Harder times are coming, tighten the budget now and make sure you have reserves for the mortgage!
 
Any of these folks who don't think it was bad under J C should ought to have been trying to make a crop paying 18 per cent interest for operating money.
 
Well let me remind you all that the reasons for the fuel cost rise this time is totaly different . Never again will there be a fuel surplus. With out a surplus, supply and demand ( capitalisum) takes over.

Why no surplus? Lets go down the list:
(1) Too much consuming going on out there. China, Russia, Indonesia, ect are buying every bit of petrol.
(2)Overall world wide crude oil production is down by volume. Example is Alaska pipeline has cut production from 1 million barrel per day to 1/2 million because they are running out of oil. Many of Americas oil wells are now using steam process to extract the last of were in their desposits. Your government will not allow new drilling to start. Opec sees the end of their oil supplies and why should they produce more oil for less money?

(3) Even if you had all of the crude you needed , American refineries are at maximum capacity now. EPA and local goverments will not allow new refineries to be built . But then why should refinery operators want any more refineries since they make more money when demand out does supply?

(4) Americans have 23 different recipes or formulas for liquid fuels. The refineries have to guess what the demand will be for each formula. If the winter is colder than expected then a shortage in diesel will occur driving the diesel fuel price up. Price for diesel at my local truck stop is $4.40. Las Vegas Flying J (next to the drag strip) was $5.00 today.
If your areas refinery ( like the SF Bay area) has a shut down or explosion ( very common over the last 30 years) the refomuladed gas supply runs low and prices sky rocket. And California CAN NOT import gas from any where else because only California CARB gas can be used in California!!

(5) Biodiesel or ethanyol is a joke! You can not grow enough corn to make a difference. Why? There is not enough water. Farmers barely have enough water now to grow food. Water is in short supply to farmers.

(6) Your government makes a lot of money in revenue from oil companies ( just like tabacco companies). No one on the Hill will kill the golden cow. If they wanted the oil dependence to stop , your government would promote solar, wind, hydrogen cells with tax breaks and large funding grants ( like they did when JFK wanted to go to the moon).

(7) France gets 80% of their electrical needs from nucular power plants. America has not built a nuke plant in 25 years. How stupid is that?

My fingers are tried. I will not go into the feel good movment of the liberals and global warming that will crush our already burdened industries and power generators by another 20%. While China is the worst polluter will no have to make any sacrfices.

Remember one thing, if nothing else, Rome collapsed from the inside.
 
I agree that is sucks big time but I will say this: On my 20 mile ride home I was in the right lane on the freeway and full size Chevy trucks (several of them) were driving over 70mph passing me, Yep--I guess these fellas have money to burn by speeding, and it makes the price go up more. I speed only when I have to, like if I have to go to the bathroom real bad. Most people speed because they are impatient. My boss has 3 speeds in his Ford--Go, Stop and reverse. With him it is the pedal to the floor or screetch to a halt up to a light. And he wonders why his Ford Focus only gets 24mpg.
I will likely puke when I see what Propane costs this winter. Bend over America.
 
And just think, we(you and I) get to pay China the interest on this free money that Bush has borrowed to GIVE us.
 
If the goverment can give me money back then why am I paying them money to begin with?Whole thing doesnt make sense to me.Raid the treasury keep the peons quiet.Good thing our leaders are smart.Arent they? But hey "the war will pay for itself and the price of gas will go down if we invade Iraq"Bush,and the neo-con plan.
 
gun guru, I think the only way that gas will shut a lot of these drivers down is rationing. And that is not the right way. People say that that won't work. They didn't live during WWII either.
 
I agree with you that this time is different, in the past we were the market for oil. Now we are sharing that market with China, India, and a lot of other countries. Their demand for oil is growing much faster than ours.
 
Nuclear power plants- are they part of the solution? With all respect, that idea of building more nukes is disturbing. Does anybody remember the above-ground testing in the 50's, the fallout patterns they would put in the newspapers, etc.? Does anybody remember Three Mile Island, not to mention Chernobyl? Can anybody look me in the eye and say yes, the U.S. now knows how to safely store nuclear waste?
How bout we all get together here in exactly say 5 years and see how the economy, fuel problem, and such turned out? Hope I haven't said anything that will get this whole discussion "disappeared", because I didn't mean to.
 
Actually the world is billions of years old but who cares if your math is a few billion off. Your reasoning skills are just as good as your math skills it seems.

Hugh
 
They tax gasoline to subsidize ethanol because it's worthless and can't stand on it's own two feet, pretty simple math actually. I'm sure being from Iowa you've been educated with political rhetoric though so just go with that if it gives you the warm and fuzzies.

Hugh
 
Ya and people that get min. wage or those that live on S.S. it really hurts. I have a friend who owns a pawn shop and he has people pawning things all the time just to have money to get gas to go to work and of course in the long run doing that hurts them worse because of the interest they pay to get the stuff back. Plus this high gas prices is probably not helping crime go down but helping it go up even more because people don't have money so they then steal to get money and end up in jail which then cost us the tax payer even more
Hobby farm
 
Hugh. I thought it was very interesting yesterday, on the national news, some of the 'Leaders' of the OPEC countries were telling there people "it is criminal that the U.S. would use corn to make fuel, instead of feeding people with it".
I think maybe we are on the right path, if we are causing dissension in these countries.
I do not claim to think that Ethonal is the answer, but for today, it seems to be working.
Just my opinion,
JohnG
 
Just another ignorant, uninformed post blasting ethanol. PROVE what you said, that gas is taxed to subsidize ethanol! Seems like your screen name does your thinking- likely a fallacy as well.
 
"I do not claim to think that Ethonal is the answer, but for today, it seems to be working."

$3.50 gas and ethanol is still not able to replace it. How exactly is it working again? Are you aware that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the ethanol makes (and in the process creates even more demand for oil)? Do you like facts or do you just run on feelings like 90 percent of the goof balls here?

Peter Long
 
Bend over - you"re going to pay it all back in the end in higher taxes! You can bank on that! Probably with a surcharge as well!
 
The refineries always operate at roughly the low 80's percent of full capacity do to break down, maintenance, switching over of different equipment etc. etc. It looks like you misunderstood what they said which doesn't surprise me one bit. Maybe you were distracted by the middle aged man wearing make up and reading the teleprompter? At least when you read your news like most educated people do you can go back and re-read it.

Hugh
 
Why should I? Prove I'm wrong. I have time to educate the masses but I don't have time to hold your hand on an individual peer to peer basis.

Hugh
 
That is totally false about more energy to produce than what is produced.

I debated that professor who started that idea and he could not prove me wrong.

I proved a 55% increase of energy and all he did was state his figures from a study done 8 years ago.

My figures have been on here 3 times. No one has proven me wrong on here either.

Gas prices are reflected from supply and demand.

Without ethanol prices would be higher than what they are now.

I could go on but I have to go now.

Gary
 
''And just think, we(you and I) get to pay China the interest on this free money that Bush has borrowed to GIVE us''

What do you care? You don't pay any Federal Income tax so it doesn't matter what happens. Take another freebee and buy another condo in Mexico with it. I'll keep paying gobs of money in taxes to make up for all those that don't.
 
You're right Gary, I'm guilty of over exaggerating. It actually takes ONLY about 90 percent of the energy it produces. Good thing it's government subsidized or it would never even be on the market place. Ethanol is a political policy, not an energy policy. Just a way of duping ignorant farmers into voting for politicians, at least it works in that regard.

Hugh
 
Yes, nukes. Chernobyl was a bad design, would never be used today. And the damage from Three Mile Island was???

Compare the impact of a nuclear power plant to the alternatives, and nuclear comes out on top in every category. The waste storage problem is way overblown; most can be recycled into more fuel, the remainder can be stored for a couple of hundred years until space launches are safe enough to trust launching it into the Sun.
 
Will the nnalert let us drill for our own oil? No

Will the nnalert let us build nuke plants like their good friends in France do? No

Can we plug up a river and get pollution free hydroelctric power? No, might hurt a fish.

Can we put up wind farms anywhere we want? No, might kill a duck or screw up their yachting areas.

Can we put up more coal plants since we have a 200 year supply of coal? No.

So their solution is...............
 
WOW how about Roosevelt, That little guy from MO. Eisenhower, Kennedy That other turkey from Texas, Nixon (how could one forget him), Ford, Damn I voted for Carter. And don't ever forget the Clinton's
Walt
 
The stimulus package is a joke...I'm not sure how giving a pitance to a pile of folks that are gonna blow it on rims or a TV is going to turn the economy around. It's not going to lead to investment, it's not going to lead to jobs, hell, it won't even make a house payment. It's going to be BLOWN because it's pretty much an inconsequential amount at the individual level.

What ever happened to Reaganomics and "trickle down"?
STep 1: make sure everyone employable is employed.
Step 2: demand that everyone GET employed, no laying about, no section 8 housing for "baby's moma" with "baby's daddy" doing nada to pay the way.
A POX ON THE ENTITLED POOR! Clinton loves 'em, but they are killing this country!
 
Sorry for getting political.My only excuse is I had to gas up on the way home from work today and there was no financing available at the station.
 
Yes it's still there, but didn't it almost meltdown & leaked out some radiation? Would anyone here have wanted to live right next door to that plant then, or not too far away downwind?
 
Chicken, Isn't this just a pull ahead from next year anyway? It's you're money, you're actually ahead of the game if you DON'T get the Rebate. Just that much more you have to pay in taxes the following year.
 
You know, clown, you even sound like a clown. I was professional truck driver for twenty some years. I would bet I paid more in income tax than you probably will. I also farmed on the side(small) and I never got a handout from the gov'ment because the programs would have cost me more than I would have made.
 
And guess what. The nnalert will have to raise taxes to pay for Bush's big give away and they will get blamed for raised taxes. Works every time in Washington, one party gets real generous when they are getting out of office. Who cares, they wont have to pay for it.
 
I just read today that gas is .97 a gallon in Saudi. Why do you suppose theirs is so cheap. $3.50 that they are screwing out of good ol USA. I would much rather pay 3.50 for a gallon of gas or ethanol that came from our country than pay those people. But I suppose us 90% don't count, huh?
 
But you seem to forget at that same time you could get 18% interst on your money in a cash fund savings account. Have you ever drawn that kind of inyerast under Bush? You were lucky if you got half that on the best days.
 
So basically you were a monkey that was given a cool wallet and trained to run air brakes? What's the difference between a professional truck driver and a truck driver?

Hugh
 
Nope, wrong again but at least you're good at being wrong. People that get government handouts in exchange for votes overwhelmingly vote nnalert. It's a nnalert mess. VOTE nnalert! BTW. Who exactly controls both the house and the senate? Why did they allow the legislation to go through then? May I recommend that you learn how our government works before you talk politics.

Hugh
 
Not much. I delivered freight (door to door) to small towns and private addresses, and farms. They called us professional because we would peddle a 45 foot travel full and probably drive 300 miles while doing it. And everything was unloaded by the driver unless a forklift could be used. This was done in ten hours total under ICC rules. But it sure did pay good.
 
Nuclear power plants are the only real solution for the long term.
There just is nothing else avalible that can produce the amounts of power that we are going to need.
With enough Nuclear power plants we dont need any more oil. Use nuclear power to convert water to hydrogen. run your cars ect on that and every thing else on electricity.

The next big thing after that will be nuclear power from heleium 234 atoms?( not sure about the name). That stuff gives you many times the power of uranium with non of the bad radiation.
Stuff they need is real rare on earth as it gets burned up in our atmosphear. But the moon is covered with the stuff and they are going to mine it.
They said a truck load full of the stuff would power the entire earth for a year.
 
I was wrong its helium-3

Couple articles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3

http://www.americanscientist.org/template/BookReviewTypeDetail/assetid/50749;jsessionid=baa8v8_BH6RplS

http://www.asi.org/adb/02/09/he3-intro.html

http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2006/12/72276
 
WHOSE money is it when we get some of it back? Who got taxed to send it there? HOW deep in debt are we putting our children and grandchildren when SSI and Medicare are going broke? We need a LOT less gov't involvement, including let a true free market sort things out. No NAFTA, no subsidy's for anything, even for us as farmers. Where does any of the money our gov't come from? YOU and ME. Quit re electing everyone, the nice new stadium or road to grandpa's house is nice, but time to stop the pork. We NEED wind farms, NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS, solar energy, hydrogen fuel research done. We will NEVER be able to compete against China for fuel and jobs. They and the middle east are getting all our money, it is only going to get worse if we don't quit buying Chinese goods and foreign oil. We have more than enough COAL to turn in to fuel if we can tell the tree huggers where to put their trees. GLOBAL WARMING is a crock, and we all know it. Granted, we aren't living on the same old planet we used to, but if we tried to restore it back to 200 years ago, we would all have to GO AWAY to restore all the grasslands. Enough for now, but could keep going for a long time on my ideas, I can pull up web sites to support most, some are my opinions. I would have no problem at all with a wind farm on my 5 acres here or even a nuclear plant on on of my 80's in Nebraska. I would let them build a plant next door, not the least bit afraid. DOUG
 
Wellll first of all ya gotta plant corn,beans,grass, beets, then ya gotta feed and nurture it till it gets big enough to harvest.Thennnn ya gotta---Awww heck to make a long story short.fuel prices up, cost more to grow,truck,prossess. By the time government gets done this will probably an addative like $2.99 a gal to add to a fillup.
 
Who is buying votes with ethanol?

They are running under the same policies that were set back in the early 80's.

Every penny you and I spent in taxes to support ethanol is saved at the gas pump in cheaper gas.

Now here are my figures to produce one hector of corn as fuel related. I sent these figures to Dr Pimental at Cornell and he had no disbute with these figures. I had to put my figures per hector not acres cause that is the unit of measure he was using. And he is from the US where we use acres.

I have no way to break out the fuel costs for electricity,seed,
fertilizer,and pesticides, so I will include the total cost as all fuel
related.

Fert. $250

Seed $180

Pest. $134

Fuel used to tend to the corn $45

Drying costs and electricity. $52

Fuel to deliver corn to the plant 50 miles away. $18

Total to get the corn to the ethanol plant. $679 per hector.

Now if you take that figure and divide it by $3.00 ( cost of fuel for me in December when I put these figures together)
you get 227 gallons of fuel to produce one hector.

My corn average yield for the last 3 years is 437 bushels per hector.

The national average is 375 per hector. So we will use the national figure.

That 375 bushel will make 1012 gallons of ethanol. And 10 gallons of corn
oil that can be refined into biodiesel.

I used 227 gallons to produce 1022 gallons. Leaving 735 for heating and
refining.

The cost to cook and refine those 735 gallons is $320. At $3.00 a gallon that leaves
with about 625 gallons to sell.

Trucking 500 miles to the gas station, from ethanol plant about 8 gallon per
hector. So we have a net return of 617 gallons per hector.


So it took 405 gallons of energy to produce 1022.

So I was wrong when I said 55% increase earlier.

It is closer to 155%.

Lets see your facts.

Gary
 
The product is bought and sold on the board of trade everyday THEY SET THE PRICE. We get less than 20% of oil from OPEC so how can you blame them. So what kind of info do they tell you in TEXAS as you dont seem to know the facts?
 
I guess I keep forgetting that ALMOST NO ONE on this board is a farmer; if I'd had money to put into a cash fund savings account, I would not have been borrowing money to put into a crop.
 
three mile island did exactly as it was suppose to and shut down as the saftey features are designed to do. Chernobyl on the other hand those morons over rode every safety on it and kept going because they were ordered not to shut down thats what got them in trouble had they let the safetys do their thing and close inspected what was going on it would have never happened. Thats what happens when you get in a hurry and override safetys.
 
A lot of people in section 8 and on welfare are illegal immigrants from the south.Thats killing us,plus all the jobs are leaving.How are you going to employ everybody with more jobs leaving every day?
 
You are wrong about it taking more energy to produce ethanol than it produces.However the thing that produces the most is sugar cane.Cant grow sugar cane in the midwest but we can grow corn.If you are so proud of oil then why not you just dont buy ethanol.Its not hard to find out what corn produces for energy,and only a dumb@ss would say it produces less energy than it takes to make it.Plus you have feed when its made into ethanol left over.17% or more for feed.I dont know what else you would use in the midwest untill they figure out the switchgrass/cornstalk/cob/tree whatever else,but when they do,you will be burning ethanol more than oil I bet.
Also I wonder if sugar cane has to be mature to produce ethanol?If it can be grown here for a partial season and still make ethanol out of it or mix it with switchgrass could have ethanol sooner,and lots more of it.
 
There is a surplus,all big oil did was shut down more refinery capacity to say there was no surplus.We will use ethanol,until we can use hydrogen.I dont know,but I stood on the shore of the Pacific Ocean and I could say that it looked to me like there was more water than there is land.You people start these lies,then you act like you are mad when people get mad at you?Nobody wants to set here and do nothing while big oil robs us,but you want to say theres nothing that can be done.Are you working for big oil,or just one of the ones stealing from the rest of us?Somebody needs to build some desalinization plants to get more water if its that scarce.Some say they can make the weather do what they want so they need to make it rain over the areas that need water.
 
From the way I understand it the nnalert don't have enough for a majority to over ride a veto and withou the help of some of the Reps they can't get that. And guess who has threatened almost every bill that is worth voting on. You guessed it our little dictator. Anything that will benefit the average person will never get past his office. He needs any extra money to pay for his Iraqi invasion.
 
Ok,the world is supposedly 4.6 billion years old.If the life of our sun was translated to a day starting at 6AM and ending at 6PM,it would be 10:30 AM today.In a couple of Billion years the sun will expand and fry the surface of the Earth.Now if the amount of time Man has been on earth which is I think about 300 million years amounts to a second of the time the sun has been shining in its 4 and a half hours of operation.
 
My fil put his next years crop money into a cash fund in the fall at .19% and made enough off interest to pay his fuel bill the next season. Now I know a lot of farmers don't always have that kind of money laying around but if they did it would have offset that high interest. That high inerest works both ways but you have to know how and when to use it. How do you think these big money people make their profit. It's not from working with their hands.
 
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