Subsoiler

[john in la]

I have an old field that is mowed only often enough to keep the trees from taking over.
It is hard you can’t get a shovel past an inch deep clay. If you drill down a foot or so to install a fence post you have to beat the clay off the shovel because it gets so wet.
I’m looking to try and reclaim this land.

I recently spread lime
I have tillage radish and annual rye grass seed (not grain rye) ready to plant but first I want to do some tillage. Thinking about getting some red clover to add to the mix for the nitrogen.
My plan is to pull a box scraper with the teeth down. The weight of the box scraper will help the teeth go deeper.
Then I will pull a single shank subsoiler.

My question is.
How deep should I try to get. Is a foot deep far enough. Don’t think I have enough HP to go any deeper.
What spacing should I use between the subsoil rows. I’m thinking about 2 feet apart.

 

[scootergmc]

I think you're going to have tough time if it is not dry. Have you verified the depth and moisture of the hardpan in various locations? In my experience here, our hardpan ran from 12-18" and topsoil varied from 6-8". I never ripped it, and I had more than a few battles digging holes. But we don't deal with the moisture that sounds like you're going to run into.

 

[wh]

As for how deep. Here we would go as deep as shank will go. Have used a single shank years ago and ran with frame just off the ground. It would easily been 24 inches and maybe closer to 30. You could see ground move all the way to tractor tires on each side. It takes power. If I could not go all the way then I would go over it twice. We ran standard chisel plow around 15 inches deep in potato ground. And yes we verified depth by digging by hand to bottom of trench and measuring. Had to replace teeth sooner to be able to stay that deep.

 

[Richard G.]

I have an old field that is mowed only often enough to keep the trees from taking over.
It is hard you can’t get a shovel past an inch deep clay. If you drill down a foot or so to install a fence post you have to beat the clay off the shovel because it gets so wet.
I’m looking to try and reclaim this land.

I recently spread lime
I have tillage radish and annual rye grass seed (not grain rye) ready to plant but first I want to do some tillage. Thinking about getting some red clover to add to the mix for the nitrogen.
My plan is to pull a box scraper with the teeth down. The weight of the box scraper will help the teeth go deeper.
Then I will pull a single shank subsoiler.

My question is.
How deep should I try to get. Is a foot deep far enough. Don’t think I have enough HP to go any deeper.
What spacing should I use between the subsoil rows. I’m thinking about 2 feet apart.

We have sandy loam over heavy clay here in NW SC.
I run subsoiler as deep as tractor will pull it.
I like to run every 18 inches.
Lets the winter rains soak in.

 

[wh]

Speed also helps to shatter pan.

 

[Texasmark]

ln my area clay is Alkaline and doesn't want to be made more Alkaline with with Lime.....the Sandy Loam of East Tx. is ripe for that!!!!!! My Houston Black Clay in N. Tx. has a narrow window where it's workable...not too wet and not too dry. It's a PIA but like just now in the heat of summer I just baled a superb hay crop of Sorghum-Sudan, Haygrazer! Made the preparations tolerable.

 

[urbancase]

I pulling a 5 shank down to close to 24 to 26 inches, shanks at 24 inches apart.

 

[scootergmc]

I will say it is impressive and cathartic to stop and watch a D11 ripping 6 ft. deep before an orchard or vineyard goes in.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

No idea what your dirt is like they say 14 inches here to break the hard pan it pulls harder than you think

 

[Ray,IN]

The only purpose of using a sub-soiler is to break the hardpan so water can drain from topsoil. The first objective is to use a tractor and sub-soiler capable of accomplishing that task. If your present tractor cannot pull a sub-soiler deep enough you just wasted your time and money. A yard box will not do the job.

 

[buickanddeere]

I have an old field that is mowed only often enough to keep the trees from taking over. It is hard you can’t get a shovel past an inch deep clay. If you drill down a foot or so to install a fence post you have to beat the clay off the shovel because it gets so wet. I’m looking to try and reclaim this land. I recently spread lime I have tillage radish and annual rye grass seed (not grain rye) ready to plant but first I want to do some tillage. Thinking about getting some red clover to add to the mix for the nitrogen. My plan is to pull a box scraper with the teeth down. The weight of the box scraper will help the teeth go deeper. Then I will pull a single shank subsoiler. My question is. How deep should I try to get. Is a foot deep far enough. Don’t think I have enough HP to go any deeper. What spacing should I use between the subsoil rows. I’m thinking about 2 feet apart.

I have an old field that is mowed only often enough to keep the trees from taking over.
It is hard you can’t get a shovel past an inch deep clay. If you drill down a foot or so to install a fence post you have to beat the clay off the shovel because it gets so wet.
I’m looking to try and reclaim this land.

I recently spread lime
I have tillage radish and annual rye grass seed (not grain rye) ready to plant but first I want to do some tillage. Thinking about getting some red clover to add to the mix for the nitrogen.
My plan is to pull a box scraper with the teeth down. The weight of the box scraper will help the teeth go deeper.
Then I will pull a single shank subsoiler.

My question is.
How deep should I try to get. Is a foot deep far enough. Don’t think I have enough HP to go any deeper.
What spacing should I use between the subsoil rows. I’m thinking about 2 feet apart.

there are some subsoiler tips that are up to 10" wide . Makes a difference . pulled it 30" deep withthe upper link set short . Made the subsoiler lift the soil .

 

[gmccool]

The reason to sub soil is to shatter the soil. If you are not pulling it deep enough to penetrate the hard pan and fast enough to shatter the soil you are wasting your time.

 

[da.bees]

Several mentions of hard pan, do you know if you have any and if so at what depth and how thick? From your description it's more than 18" because you dug that deep. The black clay Texasmark talked about doesn't have hardpan anywhere I've seen. However there are areas where white shell rock lies 1-3 feet from surface. That rock is 6-20 feet thick so there's no way of breaking through it. Not as productive as where there is no rock but farmers have been growing crops on it for decades.
The question is how far soil stays as wet as you're seeing at 12". You might find out by drilling a deep post hole. If you don't break through saturated soil into dry soil, subsoiling isn't going to accomplish much. I'm thinking your efforts should be in getting organic matter mixed into topsoil so it holds moisture. Turning under what's on it now plus thatch from mowing would prep for Winter crops you mentioned.

 

[john in la]

Hardpan????
What is a Hardpan.
If you scrape away the leaves and thatch you will find a couple of inches where the grass roots grow.
That is where the hardpan starts and it goes as deep as you care to dig.
The only reason the top few inches stays dry is from evaporation.
Like I said you can not take a shovel and drive it in the ground no matter how many time you jump on it.

I really don't want to plow and bring up dead sterile soil to the surface.
I guess my main objective is to create narrow channels so the water can drain laterally and to give the cover crop roots a place to grow to add organic matter into the soil there by rejuvenating the hard clay soil into something usable and more plant friendly.

And yes I know messing with clay while it is wet from a rain will do more harm than good.

 

[Texasmark]

Several mentions of hard pan, do you know if you have any and if so at what depth and how thick? From your description it's more than 18" because you dug that deep. The black clay Texasmark talked about doesn't have hardpan anywhere I've seen. However there are areas where white shell rock lies 1-3 feet from surface. That rock is 6-20 feet thick so there's no way of breaking through it. Not as productive as where there is no rock but farmers have been growing crops on it for decades.
The question is how far soil stays as wet as you're seeing at 12". You might find out by drilling a deep post hole. If you don't break through saturated soil into dry soil, subsoiling isn't going to accomplish much. I'm thinking your efforts should be in getting organic matter mixed into topsoil so it holds moisture. Turning under what's on it now plus thatch from mowing would prep for Winter crops you mentioned.

Well thank you sir for the support.....In the summer I have measured cracks over 6' deep...the length of my measuring rod at the time, but that was on non (frequently) exercised grass land like my hay patches that get massaged annually. On my hay patches, I really don't need a subsoiler as the surface moisture decreases as the dry spell continues and takes its downward momentum. Sometimes I just do things to have something to do.....as long as I have the equipment and can afford to do it.......thank goodness my farming "expertise" isn't my main means of livelihood.

 

[wh]

Hardpan????
What is a Hardpan.
If you scrape away the leaves and thatch you will find a couple of inches where the grass roots grow.
That is where the hardpan starts and it goes as deep as you care to dig.
The only reason the top few inches stays dry is from evaporation.
Like I said you can not take a shovel and drive it in the ground no matter how many time you jump on it.

I really don't want to plow and bring up dead sterile soil to the surface.
I guess my main objective is to create narrow channels so the water can drain laterally and to give the cover crop roots a place to grow to add organic matter into the soil there by rejuvenating the hard clay soil into something usable and more plant friendly.

And yes I know messing with clay while it is wet from a rain will do more harm than good.

Sub soil as deep as possible. Even go 2 or 3 times to get deep. Then go cross way if possible. The slots will allow water to drain. Sub soiling will not disturb top soil. Again, it takes power to pull deep.

 

[buickanddeere]

Sub soil as deep as possible. Even go 2 or 3 times to get deep. Then go cross way if possible. The slots will allow water to drain. Sub soiling will not disturb top soil. Again, it takes power to pull deep.

single shank on my Deere 1640 , 30" deep with a 10B ripper and 10" wide laser tip. Makes it work in 4th gear but does not lug down on hills or through tough spots .

 

[Paul swpa]

You're going to plant tillage radish right? just get enough loose dirt on top for the seed to get in (1/4" or so) and let the radishes do their thing. As far south as you are I doubt if they will freeze out so just let them grow. Between their tap root and the accumulating biomass on top I think they would do what you want. If you let them go they will bloom, set seed, and reseed another generation. I have a spot I planted them on here in PA probably four years ago and they're still going only now I don't see the radish (root part) sticking up out of the ground. I think they did their job of loosening up the soil in that spot.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Gypsum will help to loosen up clay. Sounds like you'll need a lot.

 

[Princeton Bill]

I'm with Paul. Let the crops loosen up the clay. Taproots such as radishes, alfalfa, cereal rye, etc. will break it up. The ground just has to be worked enough to get the plants to germinate and grow.