super c generator issues..maybe normal, hot

[BarnyardEngineering]

Look up John T's Generator Troubleshooting Procedure.

 

[tfringo]

I would like to give everyone an update. Yesterday I went out to work on my tractors charging system. So, consider all the stuff I did in the earlier postings I made. Fixed a light switch (red herring), etc.

So, I approached it one thing at a time and watched the amp meter.
1) I reattached the leads going to the voltage regulator. I unscrewed them, checked them and cleaned them and then put them back. One wire was a little questionable but was hanging in there. I then started the tractor. The battery is new but tired from starting it lately. The amp meter showed about 1 amp negative draw. So, no big change with that intervention.
2) I wiggled the slightly questionable wire connection. My wife watched the amp meter and noted no changes.
3) I tapped on the voltage regulator and it started to charge about 2 amps. This is a result that I have had in the past and typically it will only stay there a short while and then go back the other way to about 1 amp negative.
4) I clipped onto the frame of the voltage regulator with a wire and grounded it to the generator frame and other places on the tractor. This had no effect on the generator output/amp meter deflection.
5) I turned off the tractor and restarted it. The amp meter went to about a negative 1 amp draw.
6) As per suggestions, I took the lid off the voltage regulator and in the clear light, I could see the on-switch coil fully engaged (thats what I call it because I believe it activates when you pull the on-switch out). The other set of points I noticed was vibrating???? I assumed this was a good sign that it was trying to do its job. I have heard of this vibrating points but never witnessed it. My wife was still watching the amp meter and I pulled on the points to close them. This cause the amp meter to nearly peg itself positive. I opened the points and the amp meter went negative charge. I don't remember how much.

I knew that these regulators are adjusted by people so I figured why not try to adjust it myself. I noted the contact for the closed position was designed to be bent. I had very few good tools with me to do this. I used a pair of medium sized channel locks and grabbed the whole tab and bent it to slightly closing the gap. This was very hard to judge using channel locks. My amp meter jumped to a solid 4 amp positive output and slowly drop to about a solid 3 amp. I knew my battery was tired so I thought 3 amp positive wasn't that bad. It stayed at about 3 amps and increased slightly when I revved the engine. I then stopped the engine and cranked on it just slightly before it started again. Now...... the amp meter jumped to about 9 amps and then gradually returned to about 2-3 solid amps and a steady needle. This is the first time I have ever seen it act normal.

I think I might have fixed it. Maybe it just needed that adjustment. My lights are brighter : ) I think it might be working. I will try to go back out there today and see if it acts normal.

Thank you for all the suggestions. I hope my comments help other people to manage their charging issues. I do believe the voltage regulators might have some quality control issues. I have replaced it about 3 times and it always acted the same. This is the first time I ever bent that little tab with contact point on it.

I do have a question...... What is a typical out that I should see on the amp meter if the battery is reasonably charged and the engine is running and no lights are on. My impression is that it should be about 1-2 amps on a healthy charged battery?

I greatly appreciate the advise given to me. Sincerely I thank you that commented. Terry

NOTE: I would like to clarify that the Farmall SC parts book does show the correct generator for the tractor as Delco 1100501 and illustrates it as a 3 brush generator with a fixed 3rd brush working with a voltage regulator (not a cut-out). I did read comments somewhere else that suggested that it should be a 2 brush generator.

 

[Brownie450]

Your "main" contact in the reg. is supposed to pull in & make
contact only when the gen. output rises above 6.75 to 7 Volts.
It is not actuated by the on- off [ignition] switch.
You should run a piece of 400 grit cloth or paper through the
contacts of the Voltage control relay in the reg. Those contacts
need to be clean.
Sounds like you just about have it working well.
Jim

 

[tfringo]

I forgot to mention that. I did clean the contacts with very fine grit paper and blew it out. No changes noted after that. I will meditate on what you say about the main contact. I think I understand that. In order to recharge the 6 volt battery, it needs 6.75 to 7 volts or it can't do the job. Thanks! Terry

 

[Janicholson]

I forgot to mention that. I did clean the contacts with very fine grit paper and blew it out. No changes noted after that. I will meditate on what you say about the main contact. I think I understand that. In order to recharge the 6 volt battery, it needs 6.75 to 7 volts or it can't do the job. Thanks! Terry

The "main" contact is called a Cutout relay. It is connected to the Bat terminal and L terminal if it has one. The cutout is also connected to the Armature terminal on the Generator. There are two windings on that cutout. one is called a pull in winding, and is rather fine wire, the other is a heavy gauge wire with few wraps around the center magnetic post. The nothing is connected to the Ignition circuit until it is actually charging and that is the output of the Bat (or Bat and L terminals). as generator voltage goes up when initially started rotating, the pull in winding "sees" that voltage when it gets to 6.75+ the big contacts close, charging th battery. When the engine is shut off, or idled really slow, the generator voltage is less than the battery voltage, and a reverse "pushing" force is applied to the cutout relay, opening the points so the battery does not discharge into the generator.
The bending of the field contact may have worked, but the usual method is to increase the spring tension holding the points together. Jim

 

[Brownie450]

Forgot to comment on typical operation with a fully charged
battery. After starting, the ammeter should register maybe 10
to 15 amps or higher & then start tapering back as the battery
comes up on Voltage. After running for a while, the ammeter
should register around 1 to 2 amps. This would indicate a
fully charged battery & just what the coil would be drawing.
Jim

 

[560Dennis]

I had poor ground from battery positive At control box to the three bolts that connecting control box to the differential . Rust develops here and gave my 6 volt system issues .I believe I see fresh paint on your tractor . Might do a check with volt meter for this type of problem . Just A tip can’t have enough ground.

 

[John T]

Look up John T's Generator Troubleshooting Procedure.

John T ? Where is your electrical troubleshooting guide

Want to make sure I have the "latest" verson. Thanks, jC

www.yesterdaystractors.com

Thanks

John T

 

[tfringo]

Ok........... I have another update. Please judge me gently. So, I went back out a few days later after claiming everything was fixed and happy, etc. Well, the tractor started and it went right back to acting weird again and running at 2 amp discharge. But, I bucked up and went back to the drawing board.
1) Found a good drawing of the wiring diagram from my tractor and also looked closer at the descriptions in my operators manual describing wire position. My wiring was all messed up where it attached to the right side of the voltage regulator. The first clue..... the wire that I mentioned before that was a little questionable (I looked at it closer). I thought it was good enough, I pulled on it and it came right out of the terminal. The solder had been boiled right out of the terminal. This is what prompted me to re-check the wiring diagram. I don't recall what wire was where right not but it was not right. I do recall it was the wire leading from the F terminal of the generator going to the voltage regulator. So, I took that little section of wire home, cleaned it up and managed to crimp and solder it. 2) So if things get that hot, I decided that I couldn't screw things up any worse. I took the lid off the regulator and looked closely at it. I carefully loosened the adjustment on the vibrating contact and bent it back to normal. I then noticed by loosening a nut I could adjust the gap. I started the tractor and played with the gap until it was vibrating nicely. Amp meter was showing about 8-10 amps out. So....... did I finally fix something???????????????????????????? Hell, I don't know. Ok..... I was out there yesterday, I started the tractor and it went to about 8 amps output, and slowly dropped to about 2 amp, after some time. I drove the tractor for about 5 hours moving dirt around a foundation. The amp meter showed 2-3 amps output the whole time. I was rather pleased. Turned it off and it turned it on a couple time. Oh.... one last detail. The wire coming off the vibrating contact post had boiled much of its solder off of it. I pinched it hard with some needle nose plyers and that seemed to fix that. Its a happy tractor and starts easy now. Heading out now. I hope no one has to repeat the process....... Terr

 

[Brownie450]

Very good of you to check back with progress report.
Sounds like you got the old girl fixed.
Jim

 

[tfringo]

Just in time to sell it. . Yesterday I had the privilege of moving dirt around a foundation. About 5 hours. The tractor ran great.

 

[tfringo]

You can coat terminal points with spray battery post sealer or slather it with dialectric grease.

Another thing. I thought my battery was weak all the time or my terminal connections were poor. Come to fine out, the switch on the started was making poor contact. I thought my starter or battery were poop. I played with the switch and it spins like a top. What the heck.

Neighbor says he wants to buy my tractor. I think is will have a new home : (