TED-20 Non-starter

[Vaaljapie]

Good afternoon good folks

After my intro In This Thread, I promised feeddback as and when I got the opportunity to try your suggestions.

I checked the fuel valve on the tank and cleaned it out, ensured that there is a good flow of fuel through the in-line filter, and also opened the float-bowl drain to ensure that there is fuel right down to the carb (there is...). I also reset both adjuster screws to about 1 1/2 turns out.

I managed to locate the dowel hole in the flange, (it was plugged with old oil and muck and looked like part of the flange), and stuck a 6mm (1/4") bolt in there to locate the flywheel, with the rotor pointing to No. 1. I loosened the distributor and turned it until I had the points open, set the gap to .015", tightened the screws and then with the ignition switched on I turned the dizzie until there was a spark across the points. My understanding of the manual is that this is how it is done.

After tightening the dizzie, I replaced the cap and made sure that the firing order is correct 1-3-4-2.

Now this thing just refuses to start at all. I put a spare plug in one of the leads and held on to the business end while cranking the engine, and all I got was a mild jolt, with very little spark at all.

My knowledge of electrics is somewhat dangerous, but I did measure the voltage to the + side of the coil as 12.3v. At the - side (to the dizzie), I also get 12v with the ingition on. In other words, both poles on the low-voltage side are giving 12v simultaneously.

The tractor is running a 12v negative earth alternator

Is this correct, or do I have a bum coil? Maybe I should mention that while trying to start the tractor, the coil was rather warm, getting towards hot.

Thanks again for your input

All the best

Derek

 

[Jerry/MT]

You have to make sure the #1 cylinder is on the compression stroke whe you time it! Remember, this is a 4 stroke engine and it fires on EVERY OTHER REVOLUTION OF THE CRANKSHAFT. So you may have timed it to the exhaust stroke, or since you said the rotor was pointed at the #1 terminal, if the timing was not correct to begin with, you will be off. Go into the archives;I have described a simple timing procedure numerous times. If you can"t find get back here and I"ll describe it again.

If the points are open when you measure the coil voltage, your primary ignition is an "open circuit" and you"ll measure battery voltage on bpoth sides of the coil. If the points are closed, you"ll measure battery voltage on the battery side of the coil and near zero volts on the distributor side.
To check the spark strength, the end of the ground wire on the plug needs to be grounded to the chasis with a good ground.

It"s possible that though you think you set the points correctly, you were off somewhat. There should be a slight drag on the feeler gauge when you pull it between the points. Are you points clean and oil or corrosion free?

 

[John (UK)]

It will depend on what type of main jet adjuster as to how it is set, some require very little movement. Have you got the plug leads on correctly 1/3/4/2/ they should be in that order but anti-clockwise like the Distributor turns. Using the timing pin in the Flywheel, you should remember that the engine needs to turn over until the piston on number one cylinder is rising on compression (Put your thumb over the plug hole to feel it), it will go in with the flywheel 180deg out if you are not aware.You can see if there is a spark by just flicking the points open with a screwdriver, no need to turn the Engine. Coils can get hot, some hotter than others, depends on manufacturer, this isn't the original coil. Have you changed the low tension leads over on the coil, they need to be changed when you change to Negative earth, from what you say you do have them right, but try them the opposite way to see which way gives best spark. Check the ends of the HT leads that they don't have that green corrosion, especially the one from the Distributor to the Coil. Check the bolt through the side of the Distributor that holds the points in place, there is an insulator that can sometimes wear through and go to earth. Be careful when you take it apart as it is very small and if you drop it you wont easily find it. Have you checked if the plugs are getting damp or wet, they should be if there is no spark and there is fuel...if they are not damp or wet, then you should assume that you are not getting fuel through the Carburetor, you could have a blocked main jet. Just because there is fuel in the Carb bowl does not mean that there is fuel getting through to the engine. Have you changed the Condenser, this is a usual source of problems, they break down often, if it doesn't charge up it will not spark. Have you moved the Earth Lead from the back of the Dash Panel to one of the bolts close to the starter on the chassis, the Dash can be partly insulated from the tractor after all this time. Try turning the engine over and feel the pipe on the oil pressure gauge, if it gets warm then the Dash is insulated for sure. What plugs have you got in this engine and what fuel are you trying to run it on? Have you changed the Rotor Arm as they too can leak the HT Check the top of the HT Coil that it isn't cracked or tracking between the HT lead and one of the Low tension [email protected] ...email me direct if you need the tuning info for that engine.

 

[Bob (Aust)]

Weak spark? And if John's suggestions don't work, try replacing the condenser and coil.

As you have an alternator I assume the tractor is negative earth? Make sure the negative (-) side of the coil is connected to the distributor points; positive side of the coil connected to the ignition switch.

 

[jon corbett]

i did everything u did and they suggested. $140 in tuneup still wouldnt run.wire thru distributor was shorting out,now runs fine

 

[Vaaljapie]

Right....!!!

After many hours of scratching my head, pulling out what hair is left, and consulting my little black book of even blacker words, my tractor is running again.

Bottom line is that at some stage before I got the thing, the distributor must have been rebuilt by the previous owner or a back-yard hack. The drive on the bottom of the shaft was installed 180 deg out, which meant that when the rotor was pointing to No 1 in the 10 o'clock position, the piston had just completed its exhaust stroke.

I only figured this out after removing the rocker cover and turning the engine until No 4 rocked its tappets. I also removed the starter to check on the flywheel if I could find TDC, but there are no markings on it at all. I have now scribed a line on it opposite the notch in the crank-case, whick should make further forays into the timing setup easier

Considering that there is only one way for the distributor to fit, it never occurred to me that it would be out. I didn't check when I pulled the cap off and replaced the leads that this may be the case, and I fitted the new leads in accordance with the firing order, starting from what I (incorrectly) assumed was No 1 at TDC.

To sort the problem out, at least on a temporary basis, I refitted the dizzy in its 180 deg out state, and just re-arranged the HT leads accordingly.

Sometime later, when I redo the engine, I'll knock out the roll-pin and correct the mis-alignment of the drive.

As far as spark goes, I still don't have an extremely strong spark, even after fitting a new condensor and coil. I am able to hold the plug in my hand while the engine is running, and get very little "feedback" from the plug. The engine however, runs well enough, and revs with almost no hesitation when the throttle is opened up quickly.

One of the questions asked is what fuel I use.

In South Africa we have unleaded 93 & 95 octane, and what is called LRP (lead replacement petrol) at 93 octane, I use the LRP, as I can't think that these engines were built with hardened valve seats to allow running on unleaded.

Thanks once again to all of you who gave input and ideas on where to look.

All the best

Derek

 

[Toora Stephen]

(quoted from post at 17:05:16 02/10/11) Right....!!!
In South Africa we have unleaded 93 & 95 octane, and what is called LRP (lead replacement petrol) at 93 octane, I use the LRP, as I can't think that these engines were built with hardened valve seats to allow running on unleaded.

Derek

I use unleaded, and the consensus seems to be that it is OK with these engines.

- TS