Temperature gauge Thermostat

[Fuddy Duddy]

Got my 2N going today with both a temperature gauge and a 160 thermostat. I drove it around around 45 minutes. Each time it would hit 160 degrees the gauge would drop down. After about 45 minutes it started staying closer to the 160 degrees. Temperature out side was 65. It was having a hard time staying at the 160 degree mark. This 2N does have a 6 blade fan. I was not pulling a load or bush hogging or any thing. Seems to be a fact that the best operating temperature is 180 degrees. So my conclusion is not to use the 160 degree thermostat. I was thinking that since I had a inline temperature gauge inline with the thermostat being farther away from the block a 160 might be better. But each time the gauge showed it reaching 160 it would then start to drop down. Take this information for what it's worth. A colder running engine is known to wear faster. No engines sold today have the 160 thermostat. O'course any thermostat is better than no thermostats. Most 'N's you find today have no thermostat at all. But my conclusion is when you do buy a thermostat for your 'N' get the 180 degree.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I don't see your point... Go work the chit out of it and report back...

 

[Bob]

I ASSUME it's installed correctly, with the heat "motor" on the cylinder head side?

Also, the "lower" in the hose (nearer the head) the better, so it is as close as possible to the heat being produced by the engine.

Air in the system at startup MAY have aggravated the problem, and it MAY get better.

Or the thermostat my be sticking, and over reacting.

Some guys drill a small bypass hole in the thermostat to allow SOME water flow at all times, to better keep the temp of the heat sensitive element in the thermostat the same as the temp of the water in the cylinder head, but this at least partially defeats the purpose (engine warmup as quick as possible) of a good thermostat.

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

I thought the point is pretty clear. Temp hits 160,
thermostat opens up then closes as the temp drops back around
140. Opens again when 160 is reached again and drops. It would be
better if the temp reached 180 before opening. Less wear on
engine the more the temp stays around 180.

 

[notjustair]

In my way of thinking it is going to be harder for a setup like the N series to have consistent engine temps. Especially in cooler weather. With the thermostat so removed from the cooling system the engine is completely flooded with cold coolant before the thermostat closes to start the cycle over. With a thermostat in a housing on the engine the response is quicker. As it is closing it is sensing the blend of the last of the hot and start of the cold. The N series has that happen in the upper hose not at the engine. I'm betting my 8N temp is see sawing the whole time I am plowing snow.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Maybe that's why Henry didn't put a temp gauge on the Ns. People just got worried about fluxuating readings
I doubt there will be much more wear at 160° than there would at 180°.

 

[NOXJohn]

I have 160 degree thermostats with temperature gauges in two of my 8Ns. They do run about 180 degrees in the summer after mowing for a while. In the winter I put a piece of canvas over the bottom of the grill when it is really cold or pushing a lot of snow. This causes the temperature to rise more quickly and to stay up around 160 degree. I do it more to limit the amount of time cold air is being blown back on me. I suspect it also helps the engine.

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

More likely Henry didn't put them on there because he was trying to hold cost down. Remember, he wanted every one to be able to afford his products. And you are probably right, not going to make a great big deal of difference in wear. Just a small amount. In the Summer time it should be much of an issue at all. Does anyone dispute that it is better to run an engine at 180 than 160? I'm just reporting my findings as I see them. I did say any thermostat is better than no thermostats. Others can base there decision on what to buy base on this info and info of others. I know I'm not the only one to add a temperature gauge with a thermostat. If anyone has done so and got a different result I would like to hear so?
I have the 'Attachment' below closest to the head with the thermostat then just on the other side. One note if buying this Attachment, I did drill and tap it to a 3/8 NPT so I can buy any off the shelf gauge. Other wise you have to pay more and buy theirs. Theirs just look to fancy for and 'N'.
1 1/2 Inch Water Sender Attachment

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 06:30:21 02/23/14) I thought the point is pretty clear. Temp hits 160,
thermostat opens up then closes as the temp drops back around
140. Opens again when 160 is reached again and drops. It would be
better if the temp reached 180 before opening. Less wear on
engine the more the temp stays around 180.

If you want the heater to out put more heat put a 195 in it. Get a IR temp gun and shoot the head in different places you will find its hotter than you think... Shoot the exhaust side of the head just right of the spark plug you will get 3 to 400 is that hot enuff for ya...

I think you will find what you are looking for when the outside temps rise and you work it into a good sweat..

 

[ASEguy]

Yes it would be better if the temperature reached 180 before opening, but actually it would be better if the minimum temperature was even hotter. The hotter thermostats allow for an even leaner mixture and better heat transfer from the radiator. Leaner mixtures allow for lower emissions and longer service intervals on oil changes due to less contamination of engine oils. Thermostats typically have a 20 degree window of operation so a 195 degree thermostat begins to open at 195 is half way open at 205 and fully open at 215 degrees. They normally don't just open. The gradual change is to minimize thermal shock. Thermostats establish minimum operating temperatures not operating temperatures as some believe. Cooling system design determines normal operating temperatures. Some may find it interesting to know some vehicles now use two thermostats: one for the head and one for the block. There are even thermostats in the transmission cooler lines to heat the fluid faster and therefore be able to go into TCC lock-up sooner for fuel savings. Sorry for the long post. Gerard

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

No need to go to the extreme Hobo. We are talking coolant
temperature here. I don't get your point. Are you saying
thermostats are not needed? Maybe that we should remove the
fan shroud and that will take care of every thing? I've been on
this site for many years and over and over I've seen people
recommending the 180 over the 160. I put the 160 in since I had
one on hand and thought it might be better since I installed the
temperature gauge attachment moving the thermostat father
from the head. I found that was not the case. I do now have a
couple of the 180s that I plan to put in my 8Ns along with
sending units in the heads. I'm not adding temperature gauges
to make sure my engine gets hot enough. That would be crazy. I
want them so I can make sure my engines don't over heat. We've
all seen how when bush hogging the front grill can get clogged
with bugs and things. I do want my engine running around 180.
O'cousre in the summer time not much we can do when it runs a
little hotter. Except maybe adding something like a "Fan Shroud"
maybe. But if it starts to get too hot I want to know about it.
These are just my findings and my recommendation is just based
on what I have learned from others on this site. I'll probably
latter remove the 160 from the 2N and add a 180 to it too. But
that's just me.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 18:37:05 02/23/14) No need to go to the extreme Hobo. We are talking coolant
temperature here. I don't get your point. Are you saying
thermostats are not needed? Maybe that we should remove the
fan shroud and that will take care of every thing? I've been on
this site for many years and over and over I've seen people
recommending the 180 over the 160. I put the 160 in since I had
one on hand and thought it might be better since I installed the
temperature gauge attachment moving the thermostat father
from the head. I found that was not the case. I do now have a
couple of the 180s that I plan to put in my 8Ns along with
sending units in the heads. I'm not adding temperature gauges
to make sure my engine gets hot enough. That would be crazy. I
want them so I can make sure my engines don't over heat. We've
all seen how when bush hogging the front grill can get clogged
with bugs and things. I do want my engine running around 180.
O'cousre in the summer time not much we can do when it runs a
little hotter. Except maybe adding something like a "Fan Shroud"
maybe. But if it starts to get too hot I want to know about it.
These are just my findings and my recommendation is just based
on what I have learned from others on this site. I'll probably
latter remove the 160 from the 2N and add a 180 to it too. But
that's just me.

What I am saying is you have not worked it yet so you don't know what the temps will run until you do... All I can see at this time is you have a properly function cooling system for putt'n around on... Go break a sweat with it...

 

[TL (Va)]

If you want 180 why did you put in a 160?

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 16:36:45 02/23/14) If you want 180 why did you put in a 160?

will tell you why Henry did not put a temp gauge on it.
He said to himself, "any farmer is smart enough to know that when sitting three feet behind the radiator, getting a face full of scalding coolant and steam, that the engine is over heating".

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 12:26:51 02/23/14)

(quoted from post at 16:36:45 02/23/14) If you want 180 why did you put in a 160?

will tell you why Henry did not put a temp gauge on it.
He said to himself, "any farmer is smart enough to know that when sitting three feet behind the radiator, getting a face full of scalding coolant and steam, that the engine is over heating".

And farmers that are even smarter will see a temp gauge that is pushing 210 (unpressurized) or 220 (pressuriized) and shut the tractor off before they get scalded and/or do damage to the engine. Temperature gauges are EARLY WARNING devices that make it easier to PREVENT overheating an engine.

TOH

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

I thing my point has been clarified below by The Old Hokie and
ASEguy. From what I understand of you is that you are a
Mechanic and a good one from what I hear. So I don't see how
you are missing my point. Guess I don't do a very good job at
explaining myself. For give me for my short comings. Seems you
are telling me to hook up a Bush Hog or plow or something then
I'll see the the temperature will get on up there to a higher point
with or with out a thermostat. And I'm sure it will. Be not
everything tractor is called to do involves working the "Chit" out
of it.
What if I want to dig post holes or use the carry all to go pick up
a load of fire wood? Maybe I have a PTO driven wood splitter,
Generator. Pond aerator, or God forbid Buzz Saw? As shown
below and as you a Mechanic would know, you want that engine
running at a higher temperature, Right? What if I'm plowing snow
at the low 20s or in the teens? With a 160 and the cooling system
built into these tractors 160 is the hottest you are most likely to
get. I hate to think what the temperature is going to be running
if you don't have any thermostat. Might not be getting any higher
than 120? I've done that and I'm just trying to get my tractors
right and maybe help other realize it at the same time so they
don't make the mistakes I made. "No one should be running
without a Thermostat. 160 is good 180 is better, 195 might be
Best" Do you in anyway disagree with that statement? I also
would say adding a temperature gauge is a good idea. I don't
think anyone that has done so will say doing so was a waste of
time.

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

I had already lightly touched on that reason. Full Reason: A while back I had posted on here I was having a hard time finding the 180 thermostat. This site and no other on line tractor site sells them. Using some part numbers I got from this site I went to auto and tractor parts houses and had no luck. One member here , Wild Child, said he had some but he was out of town and would get back with me latter. He never did. In the mean time I had a list of parts I needed to order so I included a 160 thermostat in that order. Dumb me, I hadn't thought of looking on Ebay. Nor did anyone here suggest I look there.There I found them. Guy I got mine from said they are USA made. So I ordered two.
I had also asked on here about the fact I was adding the sending unit and wondered if that would have effect the thermostat since I would be moving it father away from the head. Didn't get any replies on that. I was concerned about that issue. So, this weekend when I put it all together I decided to try the 160 first. I've got two 8N that I plan on putting sending units in the heads on them. So I could alway use the 180s on them. Now seeing the results I think once I need the change the coolant on the 2N I will go back with a 180 on it too
180 Degree Thremostat

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 07:30:29 02/24/14) I thing my point has been clarified below by The Old Hokie and
ASEguy. From what I understand of you is that you are a
Mechanic and a good one from what I hear. So I don't see how
you are missing my point. Guess I don't do a very good job at
explaining myself. For give me for my short comings. Seems you
are telling me to hook up a Bush Hog or plow or something then
I'll see the the temperature will get on up there to a higher point
with or with out a thermostat. And I'm sure it will. Be not
everything tractor is called to do involves working the "Chit" out
of it.
What if I want to dig post holes or use the carry all to go pick up
a load of fire wood? Maybe I have a PTO driven wood splitter,
Generator. Pond aerator, or God forbid Buzz Saw? As shown
below and as you a Mechanic would know, you want that engine
running at a higher temperature, Right? What if I'm plowing snow
at the low 20s or in the teens? With a 160 and the cooling system
built into these tractors 160 is the hottest you are most likely to
get. I hate to think what the temperature is going to be running
if you don't have any thermostat. Might not be getting any higher
than 120? I've done that and I'm just trying to get my tractors
right and maybe help other realize it at the same time so they
don't make the mistakes I made. "No one should be running
without a Thermostat. 160 is good 180 is better, 195 might be
Best" Do you in anyway disagree with that statement? I also
would say adding a temperature gauge is a good idea. I don't
think anyone that has done so will say doing so was a waste of
time.

What you and others are missing is this is a flathead that tends to run hotter under a load its the nature of the beast.... Because there is no oil flow thu the cylinder head I doubt a 180 will make much difference in oil temps I personal believe a 160 is sufficient...

If I were to run a 180 I would make sure I have a real tight belt and a 6 blade fan and all the airflow I could get you will need it....
If Y'all are looking for a improvement to remove condensation from the oil dream up a better crankcase ventilation system :?: That is one of the benefits of emission controls.

I don't like those short 180 stats they did not work well in the original vehicle they were designed for and could become a issue in a N... If you gotta have one tie it down good so it does not turn and block coolant flow... Use steel zip ties below and above it :?:

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

I had looked at that. But they don't tell you if you are getting a 160
or 180 or what?

 

[Hobo,NC]

The B/A from the rock are 180... I would chance a B/A over whatever A&I sources...

 

[Fuddy Duddy]

That makes your post a little more clear. You should had said from
the get go you weren't a fan of the 180 and preferred the 160. Your
beating around the bush made your post hard to follow. I'll
probably run the 2N for a while with the 160 and the 8N with a 180.
Then latter I can get back with you on which one I like the best if I
remember to do so.

 

[TL (Va)]

When you install one, let us know what happens.
Thanks for the link.
TL