As a current school bus driver in NY state. I believe I can explain most of your rants about school buses, school bus drivers and frequent stops. First off different states, and school districts have different policies and rules. All are designed for one thing the students safety. Here in NY state we have some of the toughest rules and regs of any state. On busy roads more frequent stops are required so students don't have to walk down the road to a group stop. I personally don't speed unless I'm trying to get through Buffalo at rush hour. And I pull over to let cars by every couple of stops. I also run a bus with all sorts of lights(strobe on the top, super bright LED reds, yellows and stop arm.) This type of bus, although more expensive has received a great response from the tax paying public. I believe I and my situation are more the norm that what most of you have experienced. School buses are the safest mode of transportation in the world. We haul more passengers in a week than the entire airline industry hauls in a year. Yet we get very little recognition for the lives we save. Feel free to ask me any further questions you might have.
Thanks for hauling our rugrats around. The bus driver for our kids doesn't take any crap, and that the way it should be. I usually don't have any problem with buses as I am going to work in between the high schoolers and the elementary kids. The drivers around here have a good reputation.
About five years ago a bus driver was coming up to an intersection when a tanker driver with a load of gasoline who was driving way too fast on a foggy morning clipped a flat bed that had slowed for a dump truck that was turning. The worst happened and there was a big crash and fire. The school bus driver saw what was happening and drove the bus into a bean field for safety and so the kids wouldn't have to watch. (couple of fatalities) The school board was going to punish the driver for going off the road until the parents told them they'd be off the board if they did. Thanks again.
About five years ago a bus driver was coming up to an intersection when a tanker driver with a load of gasoline who was driving way too fast on a foggy morning clipped a flat bed that had slowed for a dump truck that was turning. The worst happened and there was a big crash and fire. The school bus driver saw what was happening and drove the bus into a bean field for safety and so the kids wouldn't have to watch. (couple of fatalities) The school board was going to punish the driver for going off the road until the parents told them they'd be off the board if they did. Thanks again.
Davis In SC
Well-known Member
Bus drivers have my respect.. It takes a lot of skill to drive a 50 foot long bus, with 60 screaming kids..
I am glad that adults now drive the buses. When I was a kid, the drivers were 16 or 17 year old students. The mechanics were kept busy replacing mufflers, since the drivers cut off the ignition on every hill, to make the bus backfire.. Back in the old days, it is amazing there were not a lot of bad accidents..
I am glad that adults now drive the buses. When I was a kid, the drivers were 16 or 17 year old students. The mechanics were kept busy replacing mufflers, since the drivers cut off the ignition on every hill, to make the bus backfire.. Back in the old days, it is amazing there were not a lot of bad accidents..
Haywood
Well-known Member
Washington State has some tough regulations too.
I worked for a IH Dealership that sold new buses and all had to go through a very comprehensive intitial inspection with the Washington State patrol to assure it met the state and federal standards.Before they were delivered to the school districts. (Each State differs on Regs)
I Moved a lot of seats and made many modifications to comply. Some times the buses would not show up with plywood under the flooring so all the seats had to be removed and plywood put down and new flooring put in.
Safe buses in this State. Except private schools are exsempt from inspections. Some are not so safe.
I worked for a IH Dealership that sold new buses and all had to go through a very comprehensive intitial inspection with the Washington State patrol to assure it met the state and federal standards.Before they were delivered to the school districts. (Each State differs on Regs)
I Moved a lot of seats and made many modifications to comply. Some times the buses would not show up with plywood under the flooring so all the seats had to be removed and plywood put down and new flooring put in.
Safe buses in this State. Except private schools are exsempt from inspections. Some are not so safe.
We had a bus driver here last year that drove the bus my daughter rode. My daughter would come home with so pretty amazing 'experiences' of riding that bus. At least 2 dozen complaints had been filed with the school about the driver to which the school ignored. Last fall this bus driver elected to pull the bus out of the rt 199 junction on to rt 220 immediately in front of a line of traffic. A Honda Accord with 3 high school kids slammed broadside into the bus at approx 35 MPH. By the grace of God these kids landed in the hospital for a week instead of the morgue, and a few of the kids on the bus were taken to the ER for bumps and bruises.
The bus driver was making all sorts of excuses and claiming the kids in the Honda were speeding to the police on the scene. But several people in the stopped line of traffic made statements to the police that the Honda was actually holding up traffic by driving 35 MPH in a 45 MPH speed zone and none saw any good reason that the bus should hvae pulled out when it did. The police cited the bus driver but it still took public outrage to demand that the driver be removed from service.
The bus driver was making all sorts of excuses and claiming the kids in the Honda were speeding to the police on the scene. But several people in the stopped line of traffic made statements to the police that the Honda was actually holding up traffic by driving 35 MPH in a 45 MPH speed zone and none saw any good reason that the bus should hvae pulled out when it did. The police cited the bus driver but it still took public outrage to demand that the driver be removed from service.
One probem I have is buses here are dis couteous they will pull right out in front of you. Hog the road and won't let traffic by. Fail to make complete stops at signs. The second is our tax money: and 2/3 of the kids take there new car. Plus the bus schedual looks like NYC metro!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Last word on school busses? I don't think so.
I don't believe - in general - school bus drivers do their jobs completely out of altruism - although you seem to paint that picture. In regard to there not being much "recognition" - yes there is - it's called pay and benefits. I know there are some drivers that do it out of concern - but there are also many others that do it because of the good pay and benefits for a part-time job.
I've lived in several areas of rural New York for over 50 years. At all times and in all areas, there have been waiting lists of people trying to get the driving jobs - i.e. no shortage. That because most government jobs pay more than the private sector for many types of non-technical work. The New York teacher's union constantly whines and complains - telling us how they make life better for us all and keep our children safe - and of course - wants to dig deeper into our wallets.
Last I heard - the union wants to put teachers, administrators, bus drivers, janitors, and school cooks all on that high lever of importance - including pay and benefits. They are all now to be called "SRP"s, i.e. "School Related Professionals." We've got school busses running seven days (and nights) a week, we've got pre-K school for welfare recipients, and our area now is pushing "free" breakfasts and lunches for all - up to 12th grade - because "kids think better when they are well fed." Hmmm, they also get fatter - and - didn't parents used to feed their own kids?
You mention a "great response" from taxpayers - and I'm kind of wondering what exactly you mean by that. I know many angry and disgusted tax payers. New York State basically extorts money from taxpayers and wastes much of it. With our school budgets - if a new proposal gets shot down by voters - it gets resubmitted until it finally gets in by attrition. And, like most things in life - the level-headed people tend to mind their own business and don't get involved in public matters. Whereas, the few that think they know best for everyone else constantly get involved like a bunch of mosquitoes you can't swat.
In regard to busses specifically . . . we've got highly paid bus "mechanics" that don't fix anything anymore. We've got huge, elaborate, and very expensive bus garages for those busses we don't fix - just replace. Our small school in a farming community has a superintendent who gets paid $110,000 a year. Also a principal who gets paid $98,000 a year. A head janitor getting paid $60,000 a year, etc. etc.
I will also mention that . . . I can take a ride any day or night of the week - and get behind a school bus somewhere since tax dollars are thrown away on bussing kids to extra-curricular activities. This has little to do with a real education - and parents should be paying for such things on their own - and NOT the general public.
And, considering kids that attend public school get generally dumber as time goes on - as more money gets spent - seems there's something wrong with the equation.
I've raised four kids in New York, and now have a fifth child along with four grandchildren the same age - so I am not a person simply complaining about other's kids and expenses. None of my kids ever rode a school bus and they survived - but we are only a mile from the school and a full-size school bus will not drive on our road. The school did offer to make a special run to our farm with a Chevy 4WD Suburban "minibus" - but we did not want it. I've always felt that my kids are my responsibility, and not someone else's. nnalert tells us it "takes a village" to raise our kids. I think it takes caring and involved parents. My grown kids did well in spite of the school system - not because of it. They learned much working around farms and machinery, and later in the military. The New York school and bus systems are just a sample of modern and never ending socialism in this country.
We have joined a group of home-schoolers and subsequently will be homeschooling our youngest kid who will be four-years-old in a few weeks. We've had it with the waste of the public school system. My wife conducts several educational programs at a water-powered grist and saw mill museum and has been greatly impressed, over and over, by home schooled kids (including Amish) and their level and quality of learning - over that of public schoolers. So, we get to pay high taxes so many other parents can shirk their personal responsibilities - and pay again for our own family - and get some scorn for doing it as a side-benefit.
I don't believe - in general - school bus drivers do their jobs completely out of altruism - although you seem to paint that picture. In regard to there not being much "recognition" - yes there is - it's called pay and benefits. I know there are some drivers that do it out of concern - but there are also many others that do it because of the good pay and benefits for a part-time job.
I've lived in several areas of rural New York for over 50 years. At all times and in all areas, there have been waiting lists of people trying to get the driving jobs - i.e. no shortage. That because most government jobs pay more than the private sector for many types of non-technical work. The New York teacher's union constantly whines and complains - telling us how they make life better for us all and keep our children safe - and of course - wants to dig deeper into our wallets.
Last I heard - the union wants to put teachers, administrators, bus drivers, janitors, and school cooks all on that high lever of importance - including pay and benefits. They are all now to be called "SRP"s, i.e. "School Related Professionals." We've got school busses running seven days (and nights) a week, we've got pre-K school for welfare recipients, and our area now is pushing "free" breakfasts and lunches for all - up to 12th grade - because "kids think better when they are well fed." Hmmm, they also get fatter - and - didn't parents used to feed their own kids?
You mention a "great response" from taxpayers - and I'm kind of wondering what exactly you mean by that. I know many angry and disgusted tax payers. New York State basically extorts money from taxpayers and wastes much of it. With our school budgets - if a new proposal gets shot down by voters - it gets resubmitted until it finally gets in by attrition. And, like most things in life - the level-headed people tend to mind their own business and don't get involved in public matters. Whereas, the few that think they know best for everyone else constantly get involved like a bunch of mosquitoes you can't swat.
In regard to busses specifically . . . we've got highly paid bus "mechanics" that don't fix anything anymore. We've got huge, elaborate, and very expensive bus garages for those busses we don't fix - just replace. Our small school in a farming community has a superintendent who gets paid $110,000 a year. Also a principal who gets paid $98,000 a year. A head janitor getting paid $60,000 a year, etc. etc.
I will also mention that . . . I can take a ride any day or night of the week - and get behind a school bus somewhere since tax dollars are thrown away on bussing kids to extra-curricular activities. This has little to do with a real education - and parents should be paying for such things on their own - and NOT the general public.
And, considering kids that attend public school get generally dumber as time goes on - as more money gets spent - seems there's something wrong with the equation.
I've raised four kids in New York, and now have a fifth child along with four grandchildren the same age - so I am not a person simply complaining about other's kids and expenses. None of my kids ever rode a school bus and they survived - but we are only a mile from the school and a full-size school bus will not drive on our road. The school did offer to make a special run to our farm with a Chevy 4WD Suburban "minibus" - but we did not want it. I've always felt that my kids are my responsibility, and not someone else's. nnalert tells us it "takes a village" to raise our kids. I think it takes caring and involved parents. My grown kids did well in spite of the school system - not because of it. They learned much working around farms and machinery, and later in the military. The New York school and bus systems are just a sample of modern and never ending socialism in this country.
We have joined a group of home-schoolers and subsequently will be homeschooling our youngest kid who will be four-years-old in a few weeks. We've had it with the waste of the public school system. My wife conducts several educational programs at a water-powered grist and saw mill museum and has been greatly impressed, over and over, by home schooled kids (including Amish) and their level and quality of learning - over that of public schoolers. So, we get to pay high taxes so many other parents can shirk their personal responsibilities - and pay again for our own family - and get some scorn for doing it as a side-benefit.
You seem a bit bitter. Sounds like your mind is made up, I won't try to change it. I will just say that we just about as far from Albany as you can get in NY so that helps. Your complaints may be valid where you are, but it's completely the opposite out here. We've never had trouble passing a budget and the tax payers get results with high test scores, high post secondary attendance, and state recognition in dealing with special needs children.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Excellent writing. Very well said.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I AM a bit bitter, but remain open minded and cognizant at the same time.
I realize that things are not the same all over New York - at least not yet. I live in Otsego county, but also have a places up north near the Canadian border (St. Lawrence and Jefferson Co's) and also in the Adirondacks in Hamilton Co. The northern area handles the school budget a lot better then here - at least when it comes to being more careful with money, repairing equipment, etc. I suspect though, that it's changing.
In regard to passing budgets - I guess it depends on what's been in them. If your schools are proposing $3,000,000 bus garages, and $7,000,000 improvements to sports fields and pre-K facilities - and your local people pass them without question - then they deserve what they get. On the other hand, perhaps money being forcibly taken from taxpayers in your area is used more dilligently. Again, I know of several areas that do just that.
In regard to high test scores - it means little to nothing. The state and/or Fed. government makes tests - based on their own mandated curriculum. Take one of your 12th graders and hand him or her a 6th grade level school book from the turn of the century - and they'd be clueless to half of it - unless they did some learning on their own outside of the scope of the system. Why do you suspect so many people these days are intellectually myopic?
Same goes for abundant arts college education - including postgraduate and doctoral. I recently read a book Albert Einstein wrote about his theory of Special Relativity. Funny thing is - is the intro he wrote at the beginning of the book. He said he custom tailored it for highschool level readers - and yet I suspect many of today's college grads. could not read it. Boy, school must of have been a bit different when old Albert wrote the book.
You also mention "state recognition" for dealing with special needs children. What exactly does that mean? My dad had a country western band when I was a kid. He personally conducted benefits for special needs children from the late 1950s onto the early 1970s and raised a lot of money for needy kids - without forcibly takning anyone's money. Jerry Lewis - has dedicated a lot of time and energy - at a much larger level doing the same. My hat goes off to anyone stepping up and doing something on their own. But . . . the State of New York is doing what? Forcibly taking money from property owners - some who get to vote - and many who do NOT. And then wasting much of it, and spending some of it - on kids that need help - many of those having parents that should be repsonsible. I don't see that as a great thing - it is pure socialism.
I realize that things are not the same all over New York - at least not yet. I live in Otsego county, but also have a places up north near the Canadian border (St. Lawrence and Jefferson Co's) and also in the Adirondacks in Hamilton Co. The northern area handles the school budget a lot better then here - at least when it comes to being more careful with money, repairing equipment, etc. I suspect though, that it's changing.
In regard to passing budgets - I guess it depends on what's been in them. If your schools are proposing $3,000,000 bus garages, and $7,000,000 improvements to sports fields and pre-K facilities - and your local people pass them without question - then they deserve what they get. On the other hand, perhaps money being forcibly taken from taxpayers in your area is used more dilligently. Again, I know of several areas that do just that.
In regard to high test scores - it means little to nothing. The state and/or Fed. government makes tests - based on their own mandated curriculum. Take one of your 12th graders and hand him or her a 6th grade level school book from the turn of the century - and they'd be clueless to half of it - unless they did some learning on their own outside of the scope of the system. Why do you suspect so many people these days are intellectually myopic?
Same goes for abundant arts college education - including postgraduate and doctoral. I recently read a book Albert Einstein wrote about his theory of Special Relativity. Funny thing is - is the intro he wrote at the beginning of the book. He said he custom tailored it for highschool level readers - and yet I suspect many of today's college grads. could not read it. Boy, school must of have been a bit different when old Albert wrote the book.
You also mention "state recognition" for dealing with special needs children. What exactly does that mean? My dad had a country western band when I was a kid. He personally conducted benefits for special needs children from the late 1950s onto the early 1970s and raised a lot of money for needy kids - without forcibly takning anyone's money. Jerry Lewis - has dedicated a lot of time and energy - at a much larger level doing the same. My hat goes off to anyone stepping up and doing something on their own. But . . . the State of New York is doing what? Forcibly taking money from property owners - some who get to vote - and many who do NOT. And then wasting much of it, and spending some of it - on kids that need help - many of those having parents that should be repsonsible. I don't see that as a great thing - it is pure socialism.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
JD is absolutely right Tho he didn't include all the overpaid assistants who weren't there when
I went to school.
I went to school.
Tradititonal Farmer
Member
Yea it grips me too when some gov't employee spouts off on what a favor they are doing all us taxpayers by living off our money.You'll never see a carpenter or auto mechanic going on about what a favor they are doing use all somehow getting that gov't check gives them all a Whine Permit.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
After reading all these posts, I have to say a lot of things have changed since I was a kid.
My older brother misbehaved on the bus once on the way to school and got kicked off. Not the next day but right then and there. He was hoofin it the last two miles down the highway to school when one of his teachers pulled up and told him to get in and he'd give him a ride. He refused because he knew he if our Dad found out about the incident, my old man wouldn't say a word, but if he caught that ride and the old man found out he cheated his punishment, there would be heck to pay at home. So you see, in my day, a bus driver would punish your kid if he deserved it and the parents stood behind him (the driver that is). If a driver did that nowdays, the kid would go cry to his pa because he had to walk. The bus driver, the school and the school board would all have been sued for endangering a child by making him walk to school near traffic. And whats worse, the kid can raise all kinds of heck on the bus, distracting the driver and in doing so, endanger every kid on the bus, and not one person can do a thing about it except his parents, only they think Johnny is a little angel and why are you picking on my kid.
We even have video cameras installed in a few of our "problem" buses because of these worthless parents who have to have proof that their children are hellions and when caught on video, they still won't take responsibility for the actions of their kids and make all kinds of excuses for them. Thats what we deal with today. Not problem kids, but problem parents.
My older brother misbehaved on the bus once on the way to school and got kicked off. Not the next day but right then and there. He was hoofin it the last two miles down the highway to school when one of his teachers pulled up and told him to get in and he'd give him a ride. He refused because he knew he if our Dad found out about the incident, my old man wouldn't say a word, but if he caught that ride and the old man found out he cheated his punishment, there would be heck to pay at home. So you see, in my day, a bus driver would punish your kid if he deserved it and the parents stood behind him (the driver that is). If a driver did that nowdays, the kid would go cry to his pa because he had to walk. The bus driver, the school and the school board would all have been sued for endangering a child by making him walk to school near traffic. And whats worse, the kid can raise all kinds of heck on the bus, distracting the driver and in doing so, endanger every kid on the bus, and not one person can do a thing about it except his parents, only they think Johnny is a little angel and why are you picking on my kid.
We even have video cameras installed in a few of our "problem" buses because of these worthless parents who have to have proof that their children are hellions and when caught on video, they still won't take responsibility for the actions of their kids and make all kinds of excuses for them. Thats what we deal with today. Not problem kids, but problem parents.
Hi Jdemaris. You make some good points in your reply. Most of them seem to address our educational system ingeneral rather than School buses. I will comment on a couple of your remarks. 1) All employees (instructional and non-instructional) of every public school District work under a negotiated contract . This has been the case for years, and is due to State law. It was originally meant to ensure fair/equal treatment and pay for employees but has given the NYSUT (NYS United Teachers Union) a lot stronger hand as they have organized many of the non-instuctional employees, who originally most often had local barganning associations . 2) In my opinion there has been a change over the last few years in the focus of many local school boards, which contibutes to the conditions you refewr to. At one time they were usually made up of the area's "leading citizens" , often long time residents with the good of the community in general as a priority. Now often the school boards are dominated by parents who want everything the best that money can buy for their kids. In many of the districts here these people often are behind the excessive spending on buildings and sports programs/ facilities as they see neighboring districts doing the same. 3) actually even high paying school districts often have a hard time attracting and keeping bus drivers. There usually isnt a long waiting list for the job. This is due in part to the part time nature of the job,(often starting as a substitute,) along with the stringent liscencing , background checks , and the fact that many people dont want to deal with the kid's poor behavior. I would agree with your view that the educational system in NYS today seems to demand more and more money while providing poorer results , but dont have a simple solution to it. FWIW I am in my 3rd decade in the bus business, mostly spent as a full time mechanic , part time school bus driver and for the last 5 years as a NYSDOT School bus Inspector, which causes me to see the operatings of many school districts in the course of my job.
NE IA Dave
Member
jdemaris, I worship the ground you walk on--well said!
I hire school teachers, some of the best I'm told, and smartest. Well guess what? They may be smart in education, but as a general rule the slowest to catch on to comon carpender work. For sure not gifted as most of them assume. Most have no lack of self confidence, and think they are the gifted ones. I hire them because I simply need the help, and the busy season works out well with their three month vacation. Seems they are used to alot of coffee breaks that they do not get working for me. They usualy do not stick out the full three months. This is not intended for all teachers, but sure seems like alot more than seventy five percent. I have scalled back because hired help is a major pain and just do not need the hastle.
I live directly across the street from a school owned house that is rented or furnished for the administrative folks. There has been some real nice ones, and plesant to visit with and shoot the bull etc. That being said It would be interesting to see how many could run a business, and make it go.
I have never bought into the crap that paying them more gives you better schools. I personaly know a young gentelman that got his degree this summer for super, or principal. My goodness what a shame, and a rude awake up call when he lands a job. He has a exremly violent temper and has attempted to sue at least seven different individuals that I know of. Perhaps everyone else is actualy wrong?
I hire school teachers, some of the best I'm told, and smartest. Well guess what? They may be smart in education, but as a general rule the slowest to catch on to comon carpender work. For sure not gifted as most of them assume. Most have no lack of self confidence, and think they are the gifted ones. I hire them because I simply need the help, and the busy season works out well with their three month vacation. Seems they are used to alot of coffee breaks that they do not get working for me. They usualy do not stick out the full three months. This is not intended for all teachers, but sure seems like alot more than seventy five percent. I have scalled back because hired help is a major pain and just do not need the hastle.
I live directly across the street from a school owned house that is rented or furnished for the administrative folks. There has been some real nice ones, and plesant to visit with and shoot the bull etc. That being said It would be interesting to see how many could run a business, and make it go.
I have never bought into the crap that paying them more gives you better schools. I personaly know a young gentelman that got his degree this summer for super, or principal. My goodness what a shame, and a rude awake up call when he lands a job. He has a exremly violent temper and has attempted to sue at least seven different individuals that I know of. Perhaps everyone else is actualy wrong?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Something else I want to mention.
The driving public can't be trusted anymore.
My kids live a 1/4 mile from the highway.
They would like to walk on nice days and the bus driver would like to not have to drive up to the house and turn around and drive back to the highway.
Only thing is.. the bus has to stop on the opposite side of the road, and the kids have to walk across a state highway where people drive 70-75 mph in a 65mph zone and we're supposed to trust the traffic to come to a complete stop behind a bus with flashing lights! NO WAY!!! People now days don't pull over for ambulances. They don't slow down for a cop on the side of the road when they have someone pulled over. They don't pull over for fire trucks. They don't slow down for farm machinery. They don't pull over for a funeral procession. They don't slow down for road construction. Some don't even know to pull over when they get a flat tire. How could I ever trust the public with my children while they cross both lanes of traffic?
The driving public can't be trusted anymore.
My kids live a 1/4 mile from the highway.
They would like to walk on nice days and the bus driver would like to not have to drive up to the house and turn around and drive back to the highway.
Only thing is.. the bus has to stop on the opposite side of the road, and the kids have to walk across a state highway where people drive 70-75 mph in a 65mph zone and we're supposed to trust the traffic to come to a complete stop behind a bus with flashing lights! NO WAY!!! People now days don't pull over for ambulances. They don't slow down for a cop on the side of the road when they have someone pulled over. They don't pull over for fire trucks. They don't slow down for farm machinery. They don't pull over for a funeral procession. They don't slow down for road construction. Some don't even know to pull over when they get a flat tire. How could I ever trust the public with my children while they cross both lanes of traffic?
Most of our buses are privately owned and the routes are bid out
every year. The buses are inspected annually by the Indiana State
Police and are maintained by the owners. When I was in school
most of the drivers were small farmers who owned their own buses
but now a lot of them are women who only want a part time job.
every year. The buses are inspected annually by the Indiana State
Police and are maintained by the owners. When I was in school
most of the drivers were small farmers who owned their own buses
but now a lot of them are women who only want a part time job.
After i retired, the lady next door came over with an application for me to be a school bus driver! I told her, i'd rather drink poison at every meal, than drive a school bus! The fact not withstanding, i lost my left foot from a WW II injury, which precluded me from driving school busses, or even driving Tractor trailers on the open roads! Seems, when they cut off my foot, it must of disconnected my brain from normal usage! (Some have said that!) Pa. State police would have me drawn and quartered if they caught me driving a school bus!
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