Things Oliver Should've Done

[olliekid]

Just wondering what kind of features on tractors do you guys think Oliver missed out on. A few things come to mind for me such as differential locks, foot throttles, and just integrating cabs earlier on tractors. Obviously the 310 certainly didn't help things with the reputation it had that is now a little better, but still not like the 404 that JD had in the 4020-4430

I can speak first hand in saying our JD and our MF both have differential locks and foot throttles and all 3 tractors were made within 4 years of each other so its not like they are from different eras.

Obviously the management of Oliver/White is one of the major reasons they went down, but what are some other things you think that kept them from gaining a larger market share in the Ag industry.

So I guess this is a two part post. First, what features do you personally wish that Oliver had put on their tractors from the factory, and second, what reasons other than management etc did Oliver go down.

 

[j meyer]

White should have developed a full powershift in the 70"s- like have that introduced to the 2-135, etc in 1977. That would have helped a lot in my opinion. The silver paint held up like garbage, and by switching the paint, they basically alienated their loyal customer base. What customer base that was left really diminished in during the 80"s farm crisis. An Oliver (or White tractor for that matter) was typically owned by cattle farmers. Many, many cattle farmers went under in during the Dirty 80"s. If you find one of these tractors on a farm and its been there many years, typically that person at one time had cattle. Here in SE Minnesota, there were alot of dairy farmers, so they sold like hot cakes here! They"re a tough, rugged tractor that appealed to the cattle farmer- did all the jobs an IH or Deere could go, but did it with a cheaper investment in equipment.

 

[oliver power]

Acually, if you've read back through time, you'll see that Oliver had many firsts in the ag world that others followed. Oliver was ahead of thier time.

 

[agonair]

Maybe you should rephrase this to what White should have done.
In my opinion, and in complete hindsight, the Oliver name and color scheme never should have been dropped. The White name and that horrible gray paint scheme never had a loyal customer base. Oliver was by far the most popular of the MM and Oliver marriage and had a pretty complete product line that was good competition to JD and IH. Hard to tell how things would have been if the White tractor that came out in 1974 was green and called Oliver.

 

[larry duda]

It really make me wonder. I think Oliver was way ahead of the rest in the 1950's. I also have a JD830 that is pretty neat, but it is the most akward tractor I have ever driven. The hydra-lectric is by far better than JD's powertrol from the same ara.

 

[akelly]

I have two Oliver/Whites with foot throttles. They just happen to be hooked to reversa-torques.

 

[Toms1650]

Well it has been said before, White missed the power mark in the early 70"s. They really needed to be at 130hp and the 1955 didnt come close. This cost alot of sales

Needed a better cab in 1970

They also should of designed the tractors for more cooling back in 1960.

Not sure if the money spent developing the hydralectric was worth it, should of saved the money for tractor development.

If White would of left it alone and put money back in it instead of pulling money out for the trucks.

The gray paint and name change didnt help any and still looks bad. (who wants to walk out in the morning and see gray (sky or tractor)

If they would of developed the CVT trans earlier (and got it to market) this again was ahead of it"s time.

Never should of sold or allowed the Mailmen Brothers to screw it up, although it did not help that the plant would go on strike whenever a new tractor came out, I was told by a number of people that you could not even get a 880 when they were new due to strikes, some even think JD sent people in to start the strike to slow Oliver down.

white did not need the jerks they had around here for blockmen, the sh@t they pulled with dealers and farmers makes my jaw drop. I could see why JD sold tractors.

Even the branchhouses were jerks (tried to make farmers take tractors with old tires, wrong equipment etc.)

Funny that Oliver could not sell lawnmowers, and for a lot of years lawnmowers and fertlizer was what kept JD in the black.

That a 1655 could outpull with less fuel than a 2-70 didnt help the cause (why would a new model do less?)

Sure we all like to recall the good old days and how great everyone was, this is not true and is a big reason why Oliver/White is not here today

 

[NY 986]

If finances were not an issue they should have improved their hay and forage lines. I agree better cabs prior to the 2-1XX line. Something in the early 1970's to go head to head with IH 1066 and JD 4430. A full powershift by 1970. Better higher hp full-time 4 wheel drives in the early 1970's and even the 4-150 were not that great.

 

[jpsepp]

Deere is the only original company left. I was in our local dealer with a friend of mine a few years back and they had a poster that shows how all of the competion was broke down in aquisitions and buy outs....Deere was one big straight line.

 

[kwg020]

Let's face it, the stockholders of White were more important than building good tractors.

 

[jwmfarms]

Yep, straight back to when they bought out Waterloo Boy! Before you get all up in arms, my first tractor was a JD R Diesel, which I still have.

 

[Anonymous-0]

A big annoyance to me was/is the hydraulic system on the 50/55 series. At least in the 15 and 16s when your hooking up. You back up to the implement, 3-pt or remote cylinder and you need to move either one just a little if you're on the ground, at least the hydraulic controls were reachable, unlike a JD of that era, but if you forgot to leave the throttle over 1,000 RPM, you still had to walk around to rev up the pump speed with a cylinder and pin in your hand. The JDs would work at idle, but you couldn't reach the dash mounted hydraulic controls. Don't know why Oliver couldn't have made them work at idle. You asked, there's mine.

 

[mkirsch]

Oliver's problem was that they shot themselves in the foot by being too far ahead before 1960, which left them cash-strapped and unable to keep up with the fast-paced evolution after 1960.

Look at the market now. The only manufacturer still standing on its own two feet is the one that was the most backward and behind the times in 1960.

For some reason, farmers wanted to remain in the stone age through the 1950's but then suddenly in 1960-1962 or thereabouts, there was a complete change in attitude. Suddenly 6 cylinder engines, live PTO, live hydraulics, 3pt hitch, power steering, a comfortable seat, etc., became acceptable.

Just like IH, if Oliver had simply waited until 1960 like Deere did, the farm landscape would look a whole lot different than it does now.

 

[e]

I agree that not having a full powershift transmission was a big downfall to the White lineup. At a bare minimum, by the mid 70's, they should have had a fully synchronized collar shift transmission. Just that alone would have given customers a considerable increase in productivity.

I tend to think that all in all, the 310 is a decent engine for it's day. Good power density, fuel economy, and a cheap engine to overhaul. However, if they had implemented ample oil cooling along with piston cooling jets and extra sump capacity, the 310 would have been close to a home run.

The other area which could have been improved was with the chain coupler. It's an interesting idea, but the opportunity for misalignment and wear is too high. The trunion mount used on the 2- tractors is leaps and bounds above the chain coupler in my mind.

 

[oliver1850T]

If Oliver (White at that time) had stayed with the Perkins engine as opposed to the Waukesha they would have been better off. The Waukesha was too few cubes and couldnt lug. If you look, the companies that stayed with it had 100 horse tractors with over 400 cubes. Allis and Oliver tried to push it from 300 cubes- not a good idea. And it cost Oliver. They spent loads of money replacing engines in the early 1850s under warranty. A 120-130 horse Perkins powered tractor would have sold like hotcakes. Look how popular the 1850 was. They needed wet clucthes and brakes not the little brakes that the 55 series had but big brakes like a 4020. I think that would have been a good start.

 

[jordan hackman]

i know that oliver missed out in some things and that some stuff just would never work yet to me the oldest oliver that i ever drove was from 1950 and i sat in a JD 8100 last year and it felt like sitting in a more comfortable version of our 1950 77.

 

[olliekid]

I agree on keeping the perkins engines in the olivers. Ive always thought that if they kept the perkins then maybe, just maybe the 1855 would be looked at like a 4020.

 

[olliekid]

I completely agree. They didnt have the tractors to compete with the 4430 and 1066.

 

[olliekid]

wait, how can a 2-70 outwork a 1655? arent they they about the same tractor for the most part?

and yeah its just sad to know how bad they were managed....

 

[olliekid]

I agree I think the Oliver green tractors sold really well, at least around my area, because there are tons of 50 and 55 series olivers in my area. (many more than IH of that time and about even with the 20 series JD)

The whole idea that White wanted to make silver tractors because their research showed that silver was the color of luxury and class and they thought people would buy it for that reason. What they shouldve done is stuck with what had already been working in the past.

 

[olliekid]

as much as I agree, they did get sold out and stopped making tractors. Its hard to argue with the JD and IH guys because they made it much longer.

 

[Amos' Angus]

(quoted from post at 22:31:12 06/08/12) as much as I agree, they did get sold out and stopped making tractors. Its hard to argue with the JD and IH guys because they made it much longer.

look up Dain tractors and Lanz tractors, see what is built in Mannheim, Germany

 

[Anonymous-0]

At some point there appeared to be a decent plan... buy good, competitive brands with loyal followings and marry the the best components from Cockshutt, MM and Oliver together to develop fine farm equipment. For example, the Cockshutt combine and differential; Moline's large displacement - high torque engines; Olivers dealer network/servicability. Seemed to be a great idea, but somehow mis-managed throughout the late 1960s-70s and what could have been - was never realized.

 

[NY 986]

I am surprised that the diminished offerings in the hay and forage line is not getting more talk. The Oliver/ White dealers that went out the earliest from 1970 onwards here in NY did not have shortlines to cover the shortcomings in the hay, forage, and materials handling/ misc. areas. The ones that had a Gehl and/or New Holland franchise hung on the longest and some morphed into Ford/ New Holland then New Holland dealers. Competition by Oliver in these lesser markets than tractors might have helped some dealers survive till some of the other problems were solved and put money in the Oliver coffers instead of Gehl's or New Holland's pockets.

 

[shewelt]

Mu Super 55 hyd's work at idle just fine, even now almost 60 years later. I never heard this before. Anybody else have a problem?

 

[D-Day]

What should've been done was offer the engine from the 1955 (310-T) in the 1855. The 1855 had the most problems from what I heard regarding the rod throwing issue. And at 98 hp, it's not enough of a gap from the 1755 at 87 hp.

The 1955 should have been the low-rung on the big cube engine family, much like the 966. 400-450 cube N/A engine for it, then follow up with a turbo version for a 2055, never even build that ugly 2155 MM-Oliver Frankenstein and make it a beefier version of the hypothetical 2055, but still leave the 2255 for the CAT-V8, but make it turbocharged from the factory for a high horsepower tractor, provided the engine could hold up at that level.

 

[6pack]

Ya...What D-Day said!

 

[OliverNate]

hes talkin bout the 50/55 series ex. 1850/1855

 

[Eric Bloom]

the biggest thing they should have done was hire JD's entire marketing department. they sold outdated overpriced stuff for decades. can you imagine what they could have done with some decent equipment? they are the classic "guy that could sell a vacuum cleaner to a man with a dirt floor"

 

[olliekid]

aint that the truth

 

[Bryce]

hmmmm.. Werent they 4 cyl. until they bought the 2 cyl. from waterloo boy?

 

[NY 986]

You don't honestly believe that, do you? People that bought outdated "junk" because they did not know any better? Love them or hate them Deere came to learn the earliest in the industry that it was important to offer financing to a wide range of agricultural customers. Hey, if your old tractor blew a motor and you have to have something to go to the field tomorrow to chop forage and Deere is the only one who will finance you then your next tractor will be a Deere. Right?
Secondly, while Deere had its share of poor dealers most of their dealers were good on issues of parts and service. One of the worst ever experiences ever my dad had with dealer service was with an Oliver dealer.
While every manufacturer has its share of dud equipment models Deere had no more than the others as a percentage of the line and at times (1980) had considerably less.
Believe it or not Oliver had way more issues than engine problems with the 1855 tractor.