TO-20 Engine

[ERIC PELTIER]

I am relatively new to a Ferguson tractor. I bought this as a TO-20 however after doing some work to this and realizing things I am starting to wonder about the engine. It appears to have been replaced at one point because the rest of the drive train is painted grey minus the engine which is bare. I now think that it may have been replaced with the engine from a TO-30. The reason I think that is I was about to change the oil and realized that it has the external filter housing on the right side of the engine. I need to find out if it is possibly to tell the difference between the 2 engines or not. Also is it possible someone rigged up te external filter on the TO-20 engine or not. And if it is the TO-30 engine, will my new radiator water pump sediment bowl and oil pan still work on it. I bought these to restore the tractor to A1 mechanical shape in the next few weeks.

 

[Richard L]

Look on the left side below dip stick cast numbers in the engine. Z 120 = TO 20 Z 129 = TO 30. Also on left side there is a engine serial data plate between # 2 & 3 spark plug and maybe 2 inches below them. Should have a Z120 or Z129 and some numbers. The 20 & 30 use same radiator and water pump. Some one else will have to help you with the oil pan and sediment bowl as parts book is showing 1 sediment bowl will work for both then there is another sediment bowl that is only for the 20. Get those other numbers along with the tractor serial number and lets go from there. Richard

 

[Jerry/MT]

Do you have a serial number for the tractor? The Z129 engine has the external oil filter on the right hand side off the engine and was used on the TO-30 tractor. If the serial number(located on the dash above the steering column) is TO 60001 to TO 140000, then you have a TO-30. If the serial number is TO 00001 to TO 60000, then it"s a TO-20. The TO-20 uses the Z120 engine and has a filter in the crankcase and has a big plate on the bottom of the oil pan for access to it.

The engine should have a data plate on the left hand side near the middle at the split line between the head and the block. The engine model will be designated there.

The Z120 block would need some machine work to make it into a Z129 with regard to the external oil filter and I have not heard of that being done.

All the parts you bought will work on either model, even the TO-20 oil pan. However if you are into authenticity, you might want to replace the oil pan with the TO-30 version. Me thinks you bought a TO-30 which is rated at about 5 more HP than the TO-20.

 

[ERIC PELTIER]

The data plate in front of the steering wheel says serial # 120 something, I cant remember the last few numbers off the top of my head. The serial # makes this a TO-20 yet it has an external oil filter. As I stated eralier, it is quite evident the engine was replaced at some by the paint. The best explaination I can come up with is that the engine came off a TO-30 or possibly the dash assembly was replaced with one from a TO-20 although I think it is more likely that the engine was swapped out as the paint difference I stated. The tractor is located at my new house/ farm but I will check the engine data plate in the AM. I did machining work before for employment and figured it would take an extreme amount of work to rig the filter up which makes that doubtful but I figured I would ask as maybe someone has seen it doen before. As far as restoring it to correct authentic specs goes, this is a working tractor not for show. I am only attemoting to make mechanical restorations at this point. I use my tractor all year long, even through the winter and that is why I planned on re-doing the cooling and electrical systems. However I do plan to restore it some cosmetically at a later point, repair the sheet metal paint etc to keep it from rusting to pieces in a few years.

 

[gshadel]

It is impractical at best, and likely impossible to modify a Z120 to use an external filter. Sounds like you have a Z129 engine from a TO-30 on your TO-20. I have seen posts from more than a couple folks that had TO20/30 hybrids.
From outside appearances, the only noticeable difference between a TO-20 and TO-30 is the engine itself. The rest of the tractor looks the same. There are a couple minor differences with the internal hydraulics and maybe axle thickness, maybe, that's about it. Your new parts are interchangeable between a TO-20 and TO-30, except the oil pan may need modified. The pan will probably bolt-up to the block okay, but on a TO-20 the bottom oil filter access plate bolts to a stand pipe that is threaded into the center main crank bearing. That stand pipe holds the filter and strainer on the Z120. The Z129 engine does not have that stand pipe, so there is no way to bolt -up the Z120 access plate on the Z129. You probably have to weld that filter access plate onto the oil pan. If I were you, I would probably watch Ebay for a used Z129 oil pan, get it, then sell your Z120 oil pan. You will probably break even on the deal

George

 

[Bob (Aust)]

Eric

"I bought this as a TO-20..."

Or it may be a TO30? What is the tractor Serial Number on the data plate in front of the steering wheel?

Not everyone knows what they are selling - he's a guy selling a [b:8e96a85550]Massey Ferguson TEA 20 Tractor[/b:8e96a85550] and even gives the serial number!

:lol:

Bob in Oz

 

[Anonymous-0]

Eric,
Another way to tell the difference between the TO-20 and the TO-30 is the TO-30 has it's air intake on the right side of the dash.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Was the serial number TO 120Y or was it TO 120XX. if it was a the latter, then it"s a TO-30. If it"s a the former then it"s a TO-20. It"s possible that someone but a Z129 on a TO-20 and it"s just as possible it was a TO-30 from the git go and someone replaced the engine. The actual serial number is the best hope of knowing what the original chasis was.

 

[Jeff-oh]

Okay Bob, I don't get it? What's the issue with that TEA for sale?

Looks good to me. Did I miss the humor?

 

[Jeff-oh]

This is a good thing no matter how you look at it. It sounds like you have a TO-30 now. Wheather it was a replacement engine or not you now have a TO-30 equivenelt machine.

The TO-30 is 4 HP stronger than the TO-20. The rear end is basically same for the two tractors. The TO-30 had a little beefier differential gears.

This sight is full of insite and good people. Just ask.

Jeff

 

[Richard L]

Jeff my only guess is that person selling it thinks it is a Massey Ferguson and not a Ferguson. If it is something different I guess Bob threw it over my head. Richard

 

[Bob (Aust)]

[b:578890471d]Jeff[/b:578890471d]. There is no such thing as a Massey Ferguson TEA20. I queried with the seller who assured me the tractor was a Massey Ferguson TEA20 and definitely not an earlier Ferguson TEA20.

Looking at EBay descriptions and talking to owners, I suspect many Fergy owners have no idea what they have. I remember the owner of a TED20 (Vaporising Oil engine) assuring me the second fuel tank compartment was a "reserve" and no spark ignition engine would run on vaporising oil/kerosene mix!

I suspect there is a good chance Eric may have purchased a TO30, not a TO20. He needs to post the tractor Serial Number for positive identification.

Bob in Oz

 

[Richard L]

Bob, I know what you are saying there was a TEA 20 on ebay about a week ago I wrote him and told him that was a TEA not a TE as the coil was vertical and oil fill was at the back of engine. He wrote me back and told me he had that tractor for 4 years and he knows what it is. No further response from me as that person knows what he has. HA HA

 

[Bob (Aust)]

Eric.

This may help? The TEA20 has a casting date in the right side of the transmission casting.....

My TEA20 shows "6 7 3" indicating a casting date of 6 July 1953 (and thus a tractor production date a few weeks later). (I also have a casting date on the engine block and manufacture date on the starter motor.)

I think someone here mentioned the TO20 and TO30 also have casting dates in the transmission housing but the format may be Amercian - m/d/y???? That will give you an approximate tractor manufacture date, identify the tractor model by year and one of the guys here has a graph which compares Continantal engine number to approximate TO tractor serial numbers or production dates.

Hope that helps?

Bob in Oz

 

[ERIC PELTIER]

The serial # is 12738 which by that makes it a TO-20, however it is actually a TO-30. It has the air intake on the dash and the casting number on the block says Z129. I still believe the engine was replaced at some point but was most likely replaced with an identical engine. As far as the serial # goes. I can only guess but it has been known to be done with cars and trucks so this being done to a tractor is not a far jump. When a car is stolen to be resold whole (not in pieces & parts) the vin (serial) #'s are changed so that is my best guess to why the serial # doesnt match the model. I appreciate the help though. However I am hoping that the oil pan will mount up even though it is for a TO-20. I know I have to weld the filter access panel that is no problem. I was a state certified weld until I was ran over by a dump truck at work 2 years ago.

 

[Bob (Aust)]

[b:ec6f708c25]Eric.[/b:ec6f708c25] The Serial Number certainly looks like a 1949 TO20! It will be interesting if you can locate some casting dates to make sure everything except the engine is TO20.

Soulds like you have a hybrid!

 

[Terry G]

Not impossible to add one to a TO-20 but it sure wasn't easy either.

 

[gshadel]

Terry, can you please elaborate on how you did that?
thanks
George

 

[gshadel]

Eric, if no one can verify with certainty that your TO-20 oil pan will bolt-up to your TO-30, you can pull the existing pan and dry fit the new pan to see if the bolt holes line-up. My guess is they do. The only thing to watch is with the different oil suction between the TO-20 & 30 your oil suction may not be positioned exactly right in the TO20 pan. The TO20 also used 1QT more oil in the crankcase than the TO-30. The TO20 pan may be deeper to accomodate the strainer/filter. Only way to know for sure is to drop it and compare. If you have the luxury of time, returning your TO20 pan and buying a used TO30 pan would probably be about a wash on cost or even less. TO20 pans tend to be in higher demand because any damage from hitting rocks/stumps etc. prevents the access plate from sealing properly.

George

 

[Terry G]

George,
I removed all of the old oil filter in the bottom of the pan and plugged the line from the center main bearing where the oil went to the filter. I brazed the oil filter access plate to the oil pan stopping all the leaks there that I had. Then I had some machining done on the oil pump so after the pump picked up the oil from the bottom of the pan I could route it outside the engine to the spin on filter and then back inside the engine and into the front main bearing. (Yes I drilled and tapped two holes in the right side of the engine block. Took me a long time to get up enough nerve to do that.) In side the engine I ran copper tubing from the oil pump to the holes in the side of the block. Not much room in there with all those rods flinging around. I ran low pressure hydraulic hoses from the outside of the block to the filter adapter. Now every bit of oil that the oil pump picks up goes straight to the filter and then back to the front main bearing. If I ever take the oil pan off again I am going to take some good pictures of it. It's probably been over 15 years since I did this and have never had any problems with it. It also added an extra quart of oil capacity to the engine. I don't really know how beneficial it is to the engine but it was a fun project.
Terry