Tombstone vs 180 Amp Mig welder

[da.bees]

I would like to buy my son and I a welder. Neither he nor I have welding experience so ease of learning is a factor. Budget is $500 max. I can buy a like new Lincoln PRO MIG 180 or a Lincoln 225 AC/DC TOMBSTONE for $500. Specs for mig are;

Input Power208/230/1/60
Rated Output208: 130A/17V/30% 230: 130A/20V/30%
Input Current20A
Output Range30-180A
Solid Wire Size Range.025-.035 in.
Cored Wire Size Range.030-.045 in.
Wire Feed Speed Range50-500 ipm (1.3-12.7 m/min)
Dimensions,14"H X 10.15"W X 18.6"D (H x W x D)
Net Weight 66 Lbs
Gas regulator included. No tank nor spool gun with it. They rate it up to 1/2" with flux core which is ample for our use but I don't know if that's single pass. I find most of what I hire welded and fabercated to be between 1/16th and 3/8ths.
For steel,aside of tombstone'S capiable of much thicker and mig capiable of much thinner material is either welder remarkably better for begainers? How important do you find cleaner weld with gas shielding and capibility for aluminum (with optional spool gun)?
Thanks in advance and hopfully I supplied enough info to alow meaningful opinions.

 

[RayP(MI)]

I'll let the experts weigh in on this one, as I am strictly an amateur welder. Have some experience with both, and think you will be happier with a wire welder with gas shield. Not terribly imperssed with flux core. Be aware that aluminum welding is a whole different beastie and requires a different gas for sheilding. Wire welder can make an inexperienced welder look somewhat good.

Will stand back now and let the experts weigh in on this.

 

[Royse]

I'm an amateur welder too, not a pro.
I have a mig and two tombstones. On AC/DC, one AC only.
The DC feature on a tombstone makes it a much more versatile
welder. I use my tombstone for most everything except thin
material. That's where I find the mig has its biggest advantage.

As for learning, its been my experience that whatever you learn
on first seems to be the easiest for you. Like second nature.

I do have two friends that are pro welders.
They both prefer mig welders, but theirs are Hobart welders
half the size of a small car. Both still have a tombstone too, but
they are seldom used.

 

[ypop]

MIG welding is easier to learn than stick. If welding outside a breeze will ruin you welds, using Flux core wire will get around this. Many sites on you tube can show you the pros and cons of each. chucke2009 is a good one he is also a member here as well and may chime in on this. weldingtipsandtricks is another good one on You tube.
Ypop

 

[Animal]

I have been welding since high school, so that means fifty years. I am not a pro, but my brother is, he can weld cigarette paper together. But my opinion is to start with a stick welder, When you master that mig is a walk in the park.

 

[CHRISCO]

180c or 180t

I have used 180c so you be a big boy and is fully adjustable both voltage and wire.

180t is taped to certon voltages which i don"t prefer.

How good are you at stick welding because that is a great welder for the price.

 

[jon f mn]

The good news is both those welders are about the best you can get in their class, so either will be a good choice. Getting both would have you set up about as good as you can get. Asking someone else to pick which type welder is about like asking them to pick your wife. Lol Everyone has their own preferences and needs. If you do mostly mild steel repairs on farm machinery including sheet metal then the mig has an advantage. If you get into thicker steel or hardened steel such as axles or cast iron then you need the stick.

That mig will handle 1/4" well, but with a short duty cycle, so if you are welding up something like a new loader bucket you will have to take some breaks to let the welder cool. I had an older model I think was an SP 175 and it did well up to 1/4". They claim you can do aluminum with that welder, but it won't be much. Aluminum takes a LOT more power than steel in the same thickness. My miller Vintage has 2 power ranges with 6 settings per range. I almost never use high range for steel because on 6 low it welds 1/2" steel well. For aluminum I most always use high range.

If you do a lot of heavy welding then the stick is better. It also allows you to do cast iron. It is hard to do sheet well tho. Some can do sheet with stick, but it takes a fair amount of skill.

Finally, for simple ease of welding the mig is easier to do for a novice. You will have to watch for wind tho because that can blow the gas away. I use my mig outside all the time and with practice you learn to block the wind so you have to have a pretty hard gust to give problems. And with experience you learn to time your welds between gusts.

So, as far as I'm concerned both welders are good choices, its up to you where your priorities are. I hope this was helpful.

 

[MarkB_MI]

The MIG is a better choice, IMO. You will have to add the cost of a gas cylinder to the price. The 1/2" rating of the MIG unit is optimistic, even with flux core, but it should be able to do 1/4" just fine with gas.

I wouldn't consider the ability to weld Al a big plus for the MIG; You really need a TIG unit for that. But the lack of spatter with MIG is nice. As is the ability to stick the electrode exactly where you want it with your helmet up, then flip down the helmet and pull the trigger.

If you decide to go with MIG, one tip: the "current" knob on a MIG welder is labeled "Wire Speed".

 

[Janicholson]

Either will be OK. (I teach Welding at a Univ) the keys are: patience, clean metal, and practice. Thermal control means getting enough heat into the base metal to fuse it deeply with the filler. This also means getting it close to falling apart from too much heat, and traveling fast enough to avoid that issue. Even multiple passes should have penetration, and blending into the base along the edges. For mild steel Using the three main rods is pretty sure to please and hold. 6011 Ugly spatter, deep penetration, can be used on less than well prepared metal (but should not when doing quality work) 6013 Good general purpose rod for good medium to deep welding, cleaner than 6011. 7014 is a easy to strike easy to use rod that has stronger metal but is colder/less penetration, (I find it to be a go to rod for learning, and if prep is done well and amps are kept up it makes smooth very clean welds with easily removed slag. The MIG welder is great, but will require more money in gas and wire. Another issue is that they often get used with what ever is in the spool. This is OK if only mild steel is being worked, but you cant easily change to different wire for a small job. You will also have more maintenance on a wire welder for liners, nozzles, and nozzle spray. Jim

 

[da.bees]

I'm feeling much better about the 225 AC/DC after reading the comments so far. I was hasitant due to hearing bad remarks like"even a professional can't do decent work usind cracker boxes" and "naw,it's just stuck togeather,all we had was a cracker box". I figured each had trade offs and want to weigh them so your comments are exactly what I'm looking for,the good and bad so to speak. I could see where not having gas on a weekend can delay an emergency. I am also looking at the 20amp 240volt required for mig. A roll of 12 or 10 ga wire could alow temporary set up in a distant building where as 6 or 8 would be pricy. Which brings up a techinical question. Is it common to temporarly run an arc welder on a lower setting while connected to a 20 or 30 amp circuit? I assume it's ok if watch is kept on circuit with an amp meter.

 

[Richard G.]

Been welding with Tombstone welders for over 50 years. The one I have now is a 1977 model AC Lincoln and I did a bunch of work with it today. Still runs great. Buy a Tombstone welder for $250 and try it and learn. It has always done for me.
Mine cost $140 in 1977.
Richard in NW SC

PS: I have used migs as well. Learn on the Lincoln.

 

[504]

The easiest to learn will be the mig,hook it up on CO2(the cheapest gas you can buy). You can learn to weld with a stick welder after you learn to weld. If you just want to aggravate your son buy the stick.(or save up another 600.00 and buy both)
Untitled URL Link

 

[David G]

I have a high frequency stabilizer for my arc welder that really helps me get the arc started. I would recommend one of those.

 

[RusselAZ]

Forget flux core wire. You will have to learn a lot about welding before you are ready for 1/2" metal. I am slowly giving up my stick welder for my 120 mig for most of what I weld. Heavier stuff I still like a stick in my hand.

If you can find one, get one of the old Forney AC box welders for your stick. I have two of them that over the years I got for less than 100 dollars each. The first one I got in 1974 and it was old then. They show up on Ebay once in awhile but they don't ship,,they are heavy!! My second one I got at a pawn shop. We were both tickled pink when I bought it. This one also had a battery charger in it. They both have 110 volt outlets.

My mig is a 120 thermal arc and it works wonderful up to 1/4".

Then there are the new units that are combo with both in one unit. Great idea.

 

[CenTex Farmall]

I have both, and my "tombstone" welder is the Lincoln AC/DC you are looking at. I've had it for many years.

If I could only have one it would be the stick welder. Being that is has DC is a huge plus. Mine never leaves the DC setting. That said there is nothing wrong with the AC only boxes but the DC has certain advantages. I have welded automotive oil pans with the stick welder. I've welded aluminum with it too. (That wasn't pretty but it worked)

I believe learning will be better with the stick. This is because you can get some fairly heavy junk metal and make big beads and work big puddles so you can really see how things are working and how much penetration (or not) you are getting. I think the concept goes over a little better. Also it is quite easy to make some really good looking welds with MIG that are totally worthless.

The MIG really shines when you need precision or "just a little bit" of good weld. It's very handy to have.

The thing to keep in mind with the stick welder is storage of the rods. Keep them in a sealed container and only take out what you need. I've seen people cuss and holler at their buzzbox when the real problem is that they're trying to use some old rusty rods that have been laying around for 10 years.

 

[Royse]

"easy to make some really good looking welds with MIG that are totally worthless"

"The thing to keep in mind with the stick welder is storage of the rods."

Two very good points! Do you need a new fangled welder?
My 1936 AC/DC Lincoln tombstone doesn't think so! LOL
It'll even charge your 6V batteries for you!

 

[casecollectorsc]

Hey, you got my welder! Got a newer 225 also but
the old one does a better job. Also have a Miller
wire welder, use the old Lincoln for heavy jobs.

 

[ypop]

WOW THAT is OLD glad it still works!
Ypop

 

[T in NE]

I agree moving to the mig is pretty easy after learning on a stick. But I couldn't put a bead down with a stick til I learned to weld with a torch.

Auto darkening helmets are great too. Just keep the old one around in case your batteries die.

 

[Bret4207]

The MIG is probably easier to learn with, but if you learn stick then MIG is a snap. If you're going to be doing mostly thin panels and stuff, go with the MIG. If you will doing general farm repair start with the stick.

 

[Donald Lehman]

I've got one of those old lincolns also. I would guess mine is a bit newer than yours, but they are a good welder.

 

[Ron in NS]

Just remember, everything has it's uses, and will work properly according to conditions, and purpose.
AC buzzboxes work just fine as long as you match the rods to the job. Do your homework when buying rods. AC/DC machines are even better if you have the extra money when buying. Wire feed welders are not all made equal, and again, money will buy you happiness if you have it. Prepare your areas to be welded properly is #1. Match your rod or wire to the metal to be welded. That isn't as easy as it sounds, believe it or not. There are as many flux core and solid wire and metal core wire specifications as chins in a chinese phone book. Again, if you're not sure of what type of material you're welding, it can be very confusing. All steels are not made equal. And don't expect aluminum to be a walk in the park. It's the same point for that as well. There are different specifications for aluminum wire as well, most notably the ER1100, ER4043, and ER5356, and with different uses for each, plus shielding gases differ from steel to aluminum. (usually 100% Ar, but not always)
Best off to start with stick welding, and as your experience and research increases, then investigate how to best weld Aluminum. You may be looking at repairing material that can only be done with Tig, and that's another story altogether.

 

[dr sportster]

Tough choice. Most welding shops are now heavy on MIG for just about anything. I always like to think "can I arc weld this first". The spool gun for aluminum [unless you realy practice alot] is going to be more for what I call bakery tray repairs than any type of flashy stack-o-dimes TIG race car weld. It almost takes two guys to use the aluminum spool gun on a big casting ,one for the MIG and one to hold the gas torch for the heat you'll need.

 

[rankrank1]

My 2 cents would be go ahead and buy the mig unit brand new. Then also spend $$75 to $125 on a used AC only machine, or even better yet a tad bit more on an AC/DC stick unit.

There is very little to ever go wrong on those buzzbox stick machines so no reason to pay a premium for a new one IMOP. Consider Hobart Stickmates and Miller Thunderbolts too on the use route. They have infinite amperage adjustment over the Lincoln's tapped settings which is nice. Regardless, buy what you find a deal on.

Every weld process has its place and these 2 machines can cover lots of applications for you for very little coin.

 

[rankrank1]

duplicate post deleted

 

[Rick Kr]

I have around 30 years of welding under my belt. Still just an amateur but I do a lot of fab at work.

Don't buy a new AC/DC buzz box, you can find them used all over the place. $100 will get you an AC unit around here.

I would pool your money a little longer on the MIG, I believe you will be right around $1000 with the entire setup. Welding 1/2" metal with a MIG single pass is not going to happen. An old rule of thumb "1 amp per 0.001" of metal thickness" Not all agree with this.

I have a bigger Millermatic MIG that is used for clean metal and fabricating. But when thick and dirty metal welding is required I have two 300amp AC/DC stick welders to use.

After you get that figured out, next on the list will be a plasma cutter!!

Personally I would not buy a MIG used.

Good luck.

 

[da.bees]

Ok friends,thanks for sharing experiences and opinions,it was very helpful. It looks like a used ac stick recieved the most votes with a used ac dc close behind and mig highly reccomended for mild steel up to 1/4tr flux core and sheet metal gas shielded. If there was a new ac dc stick available for $300(56% of best Amozon price)my decision would be easy. The mig at $450 (56% of best Amozon price)makes it hard to pass up to look for a deal on a stick.