Too fast in reverse

[m16ty]

Why are a lot of tractors so fast in reverse? That’s a pet peeve of mine, when you are trying to back an implement and have to ride the clutch to keep from going so fast you can’t control it. Just tonight I was trying to tuck my manure spreader in the back of the shed with my JD 730 and was struggling. Between the hand clutch and the lightning fast reverse it’s a wonder I didn’t hit something. I now know why so many old 2 cylinder JDs have a hitch on the front, to back stuff into a shed.

Lots of other tractors are like this too. My Farmall 806 is pretty fast in reverse, but not as bad as the JD. Even my AC D19 is a little too fast, but at least you can feather the hand clutch without issue. All the old Fords were lightning fast in reverse too.

I’ve also got an Oliver 1850 and it’s just about right in reverse. Mine has the 3 speed and you can creep back in under, and still pretty slow in direct. I’ve also got a MF 40 industrial shuttle shift, and it goes plenty slow backing up.

I just don’t understand why manufactures made certain tractors that back up so fast.

 

[John Deere D]

Why are a lot of tractors so fast in reverse? That’s a pet peeve of mine, when you are trying to back an implement and have to ride the clutch to keep from going so fast you can’t control it. Just tonight I was trying to tuck my manure spreader in the back of the shed with my JD 730 and was struggling. Between the hand clutch and the lightning fast reverse it’s a wonder I didn’t hit something. I now know why so many old 2 cylinder JDs have a hitch on the front, to back stuff into a shed.

Lots of other tractors are like this too. My Farmall 806 is pretty fast in reverse, but not as bad as the JD. Even my AC D19 is a little too fast, but at least you can feather the hand clutch without issue. All the old Fords were lightning fast in reverse too.

I’ve also got an Oliver 1850 and it’s just about right in reverse. Mine has the 3 speed and you can creep back in under, and still pretty slow in direct. I’ve also got a MF 40 industrial shuttle shift, and it goes plenty slow backing up.

I just don’t understand why manufactures made certain tractors that back up so fast.

Have you ever noticed, older vintage Tractor transmissions with no High /Low shifter,often have a First and Reverse gear Ratio that are close in MPH. ?

 

[rustred]

I don’t know why it’s fast when the throttle is at a slow idle. The down side is no power steering and it if you get out of rythem then you got to stop and start again. An implement is pretty easy to back up , it’s a wagon that’s more tricky.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

It is something that the modern cvt and hydrostat solve but up until that point and even the cheaper transmissions today it has always baffled me as well even my 2555 from the 80s if you switched the high gear speed in the low range with the reverse you wouldn’t ever have to shift in the yard again use the lh reverser only

No one would ever buy the more expensive option then I guess

In the 2 cylinder and farmall super c era it’s almost acceptable they expect you to be at a crawl rpm wise. Especially the Deere. These were meant to have the mounted cultivator on them cruising along and jamming on the brake to fly around at the turn. Backing in the shed happened once a day maybe.

The 8 speed powershift 4020/3020 4440 are the only ones I thought were better in reverse. You have 2 relatively low gears then 2 that I rarely use. R2 was often my choice.

They got a bad rap for not being as robust as a synchro but I work on a lot more synchros. When they do break you get a good clobbering on the repair bill but mine it seem like last longer between splitting. They also struggle with choice of forward speeds being limited. And of course with the 15 speed that lower reverse speeds up a bit. Still ok you just are more likely to use R1.

 

[sms]

I had a couple early MM U's with a very slow reverse and hand clutch of course. Later ones had a faster reverse.

 

[moresmoke]

When you design a tractor, do you make the reverse fast enough to work with a loader, or slow enough to back up a wagon? Cost is a major consideration in the design so you only get one choice in that timeframe. You also have to work within the limits of the space available in the transmission case.

Oliver had the advantage of adopting a range shift early, giving you 2 speed options. Deere also had a range shift early on, but kept their fast reverse. Can you imagine how fast a 2 cylinder Deere would go backwards in high reverse if you could select it?

 

[Tony in SD]

Appearrently you have never bucked or stacked hay with a Farmhand F10 loader. I remember my uncle specially buying a tractor of that era with the fastest reverse he could find. We did as much backing up as we did forward driving bucking and staking hay back then.

EDIT. In the modern world we no live in, I really like my hydro for a loader work, backing up to equipment, backing a trailer, mowing, baling or anything else that requires infinite speeds.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

Late JD A. Back into a hitch with one hand on the wheel, one on the touchy clutch and trying to look back and down. Backing a wagon.....forget it.

 

[Loosehandle]

Late JD A. Back into a hitch with one hand on the wheel, one on the touchy clutch and trying to look back and down. Backing a wagon.....forget it.

The looking back is what gives me the most problems these days, why didn't those engineers in the 50s put on back up cameras waaaa wa

 

[m16ty]

Have you ever noticed, older vintage Tractor transmissions with no High /Low shifter,often have a First and Reverse gear Ratio that are close in MPH. ?

Not really. On the JD 730 reverse is 3.3 mph and 1st is 1.3 mph. On the IH 806 reverse low is 3 mph and 1st low is 1.8 mph. On both tractors reverse is almost 3 times as fast as 1st. On the ford 8n reverse is a whopping 6.1 mph and 1st is 3.7 mph.

 

[Keith True]

When I went to John Deere school on the powershift transmissions in Syracuse I remember discussions about guys that were cutting the tab off on the divider between the forward and reverse speeds.Guys that were running loaders wanted to put it in third or fourth,and then just slap the lever from side to side.It was going to be presented to us in the next school session,but I didn't get to that one,so I have no idea if it was a doable action or not.I have loaded a lot of sawdust with a powershift 2510,and I did load in fourth speed both forward and backwards.I just had to run the lever through the U pattern with every shift.

 

[SkipperII]

If you want a tractor with a slow reverse, find an IH 300. The farm Dad worked for had one, with a Davis loader, and a Fergy 35, also with a Davis loader. They would put me on the IH, Dad on the Fergy, cleaning the large cattle barns, in the spring. He could move twice the manure than I could. Some of that because he was was a really experience equipment operator, but that 300 crawled in reverse.

 

[sotxbill]

Some newer tractors have "reverse" fast enough for loader work,, and actually have the forward gear and reverse gear of the same speed.... opposite from each other. ie on the ford 8speed, second and reverse were a pair. Forget backing up a wagon or hooking up a plow....

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

The looking back is what gives me the most problems these days, why didn't those engineers in the 50s put on back up cameras waaaa wa

Did you notice I said "trying" to look back.

 

[MeanGene1]

N Fords come to mind, even just mowing the fast reverse is a pain. Our dairy farmer buddy had a 3020 gasser and a Deere "kicker" baler, so had several 10' wide and very tall 4-wheel hay wagons that he loaded up pretty good. He borrowed one of our 706Ds one day (first time on one) and was running in L4 high TA, and went to back it up. Not being familiar, he just shifter to R, so R4 high TA, and since the wagon was full, had it throttled up pretty good. The look on his face as he very quickly backed right over the trailer tongue was priceless

 

[Rich'sToys]

The 2 cylinder John Deeres were noted for having a fast reverse.

One time years ago I backed a 4 wheel wagon uphill and around the corner into a building with an A. Not sure if I could still do that. As mentioned, I can't look back the way I used to either.

 

[ss55]

Why are a lot of tractors so fast in reverse? That’s a pet peeve of mine, when you are trying to back an implement and have to ride the clutch to keep from going so fast you can’t control it. Just tonight I was trying to tuck my manure spreader in the back of the shed with my JD 730 and was struggling. Between the hand clutch and the lightning fast reverse it’s a wonder I didn’t hit something. I now know why so many old 2 cylinder JDs have a hitch on the front, to back stuff into a shed.

Lots of other tractors are like this too. My Farmall 806 is pretty fast in reverse, but not as bad as the JD. Even my AC D19 is a little too fast, but at least you can feather the hand clutch without issue. All the old Fords were lightning fast in reverse too.

I’ve also got an Oliver 1850 and it’s just about right in reverse. Mine has the 3 speed and you can creep back in under, and still pretty slow in direct. I’ve also got a MF 40 industrial shuttle shift, and it goes plenty slow backing up.

I just don’t understand why manufactures made certain tractors that back up so fast.

Back in their days the JD 730, IH 806, AC D19, and Oliver 1850 were all Big Dog open field work tractors, usually among the larger tractors in the neighborhood. The design requirements for those tractors was ten years as the primary tractor, then falling to secondary use, and obsolete at twenty years. Anything beyond that was really just gravy, way beyond consideration for the initial buyer, the salesman, the marketing department or the requirements handed down to the designers.

At that time ergonomics was a minor consideration. When we were younger we got along fine operating those tractors. Forty, fifty, sixty years into the future when most of us would become geriatric operators was not a consideration when those tractors were being designed.

There are better alternatives available, maybe use a more nimble tractor to pull equipment out of the shed and for other close work?

 

[Keith True]

I have an HD 11 AC bulldozer,and it has the reverse in the main transmission and a separate hi-lo.Low-reverse is way too low,and hi-reverse is a little too high,but not bad.Easily lived with.No reverser.The problem is that if you are pushing in say,second,and you go to back up,you have to throw the clutch with your left hand,then shift the main into reverse with your right and shift the hi-lo into high with your left hand,unless you just want to crawl backwards.A neighbor started a construction company when he got back from the war,and had 11 new AC dozers over the years.Newest one was a 1962.He always insisted that if Allis Chalmers had done something about their reversing situation in their tractors Caterpillar would not have gotten the foothold it did in the 50's.Of course that was just the opinion of one man that had bought his first Allis Chalmers HD 5 in 1948.

 

[Ray,IN]

Have you ever noticed, older vintage Tractor transmissions with no High /Low shifter,often have a First and Reverse gear Ratio that are close in MPH. ?

Most use 2nd for reverse, with a sliding gear to change directions. I agree, way too fast in reverse.

 

[flying belgian]

Why are a lot of tractors so fast in reverse? That’s a pet peeve of mine, when you are trying to back an implement and have to ride the clutch to keep from going so fast you can’t control it. Just tonight I was trying to tuck my manure spreader in the back of the shed with my JD 730 and was struggling. Between the hand clutch and the lightning fast reverse it’s a wonder I didn’t hit something. I now know why so many old 2 cylinder JDs have a hitch on the front, to back stuff into a shed.

Lots of other tractors are like this too. My Farmall 806 is pretty fast in reverse, but not as bad as the JD. Even my AC D19 is a little too fast, but at least you can feather the hand clutch without issue. All the old Fords were lightning fast in reverse too.

I’ve also got an Oliver 1850 and it’s just about right in reverse. Mine has the 3 speed and you can creep back in under, and still pretty slow in direct. I’ve also got a MF 40 industrial shuttle shift, and it goes plenty slow backing up.

I just don’t understand why manufactures made certain tractors that back up so fast.

I think the front hitch on the 2 cylinders had more to do with the hand clutch then the reverse speed. How you supposed to turn around in the seat to watch what your doing when you have to face forward to push that clutch?