Too fast in reverse

[m16ty]

Back in their days the JD 730, IH 806, AC D19, and Oliver 1850 were all Big Dog open field work tractors, usually among the larger tractors in the neighborhood. The design requirements for those tractors was ten years as the primary tractor, then falling to secondary use, and obsolete at twenty years. Anything beyond that was really just gravy, way beyond consideration for the initial buyer, the salesman, the marketing department or the requirements handed down to the designers.

At that time ergonomics was a minor consideration. When we were younger we got along fine operating those tractors. Forty, fifty, sixty years into the future when most of us would become geriatric operators was not a consideration when those tractors were being designed.

There are better alternatives available, maybe use a more nimble tractor to pull equipment out of the shed and for other close work?

I could use another tractor, but I was spreading with the 730 so I would have had to unhook the spreader, hook another tractor up, and back it in the barn, still a pain.

I’m just venting is all, running this old equipment you just have to deal with it. I know in future purchases the reverse speed will be part of my buying decision. We’ve always mostly had AC, and with the Power Director you can back up with them pretty easy, it wasn’t until I got into other brands that I noticed it being a issue.

 

[olddavid]

The Ferguson TO-35 and MF-50 had two speed transmissions. 6 forward gears and 2 reverse. The Hi reverse was often too fast and the LO reverse was too slow at times. I always preferred the TE-20 4-speed transmission which seemed to have the gears right where I wanted them.

 

[m16ty]

I think the front hitch on the 2 cylinders had more to do with the hand clutch then the reverse speed. How you supposed to turn around in the seat to watch what your doing when you have to face forward to push that clutch?

This 730 is my first JD. I like the tractor but it sure can be odd to operate. Hand clutch of course, brake pedal on each side, decompression pedal, and PTO pedal. Your feet can stay pretty busy, but oddly enough the clutch isn’t one of them. More than once I’ve hit either the decompression pedal or the left brake pedal trying to push the clutch, lol.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I think the front hitch on the 2 cylinders had more to do with the hand clutch then the reverse speed. How you supposed to turn around in the seat to watch what your doing when you have to face forward to push that clutch?

I was wondering that myself.

 

[formerly ny bill]

One that amazes me is my Farmall Regular. Reverse is quite sprightly on that one, too. Likely being a farmer's first experience with a tractor, it makes me wonder how many wives or kids were run over trying to help hook up a wagon while Dad was yelling Whoa whoa!.

 

[NDIHC]

N Fords come to mind, even just mowing the fast reverse is a pain. Our dairy farmer buddy had a 3020 gasser and a Deere "kicker" baler, so had several 10' wide and very tall 4-wheel hay wagons that he loaded up pretty good. He borrowed one of our 706Ds one day (first time on one) and was running in L4 high TA, and went to back it up. Not being familiar, he just shifter to R, so R4 high TA, and since the wagon was full, had it throttled up pretty good. The look on his face as he very quickly backed right over the trailer tongue was priceless

4th reverse direct would have been fun trying to back up a wagon. Almost 9 MPH. I tried 4th reverse direct with my 1066 and 10 MPH in reverse feels like 20 going forward!

 

[RCP]

Oliver had two reverse gears

 

[m16ty]

4th reverse direct would have been fun trying to back up a wagon. Almost 9 MPH. I tried 4th reverse direct with my 1066 and 10 MPH in reverse feels like 20 going forward!

My MF40 has a shuttle shift. It will go 19 mph in reverse in high gear. I tried it one time just for fun, but never got up to speed (pretty sure I would have wrecked).
Luckily, in the lower reverse gears it is fine

 

[m16ty]

Oliver had two reverse gears

My 1850 has 6 reverse gears.

 

[Ultradog MN]

N Fords come to mind, even just mowing the fast reverse is a pain. Our dairy farmer buddy had a 3020 gasser and a Deere "kicker" baler, so had several 10' wide and very tall 4-wheel hay wagons that he loaded up pretty good. He borrowed one of our 706Ds one day (first time on one) and was running in L4 high TA, and went to back it up. Not being familiar, he just shifter to R, so R4 high TA, and since the wagon was full, had it throttled up pretty good. The look on his face as he very quickly backed right over the trailer tongue was priceless

X2 on the 8Ns.
I had a 2N. Both forward and reverse were fine. I wanted an 8N for the extra features they had - position control, a real drawbar, normal brake pedals, etc.. I sold the 2N and bought an 8N. Was so disgusted with the stupid fast reverse speed that I sold it a few months later and bought a Ford 2000.
If I remember correctly, 8N reverse is as fast as 3rd is forward.

 

[moresmoke]

4th reverse direct would have been fun trying to back up a wagon. Almost 9 MPH. I tried 4th reverse direct with my 1066 and 10 MPH in reverse feels like 20 going forward!

I had a 2805 MF, (big 2wd) with the 24 spd trans. It had 8 direct gears with a shuttle reverse that was faster than forward. Worked pretty good as it had a decent range of speeds overall.

7 and 8 reverse were supposed to be locked out, but if you ran the shifters in the right pattern you could get to 8R. That tractor would do almost 30 mph in forward. Did not want to find out how fast it would go in reverse.

 

[docmirror]

I was just facing this yesterday. Trying to back a short coupled tractor into a narrow spot. Took me several cycles to get it right and slipping the clutch while also gently turning the wheel is a hassle.

 

[PJH]

I think the front hitch on the 2 cylinders had more to do with the hand clutch then the reverse speed. How you supposed to turn around in the seat to watch what your doing when you have to face forward to push that clutch?

Yeah, and I for some reason, want to look over my right shoulder when I'm backing up. Right hand on the clutch, right shoulder forward, neck 77 years old trying to twist around and look backwards. It has been a life long struggle. If I force myself to look over my left shoulder when backing up, I can do much better, but old habits die hard.

 

[PJH]

Why are a lot of tractors so fast in reverse? That’s a pet peeve of mine, when you are trying to back an implement and have to ride the clutch to keep from going so fast you can’t control it. Just tonight I was trying to tuck my manure spreader in the back of the shed with my JD 730 and was struggling. Between the hand clutch and the lightning fast reverse it’s a wonder I didn’t hit something. I now know why so many old 2 cylinder JDs have a hitch on the front, to back stuff into a shed.

Lots of other tractors are like this too. My Farmall 806 is pretty fast in reverse, but not as bad as the JD. Even my AC D19 is a little too fast, but at least you can feather the hand clutch without issue. All the old Fords were lightning fast in reverse too.

I’ve also got an Oliver 1850 and it’s just about right in reverse. Mine has the 3 speed and you can creep back in under, and still pretty slow in direct. I’ve also got a MF 40 industrial shuttle shift, and it goes plenty slow backing up.

I just don’t understand why manufactures made certain tractors that back up so fast.

Loader work. Reverse and fourth on the John Deeres. Short shifter movement. Good for loader work, but bad for cautious backing in tight places. Then when you mention loaders and hand clutches, it brings up other arguments. Remember the one-armed wallpaper hanger argument? Hand clutch. Hand hydraulic control. Hand bucket control. It's like playing a banjo, only not as much fun.

 

[kevin110]

Hi, I have a MF30 industrial. Shuttle shift 6x6. I never use high range, too fast .Low range is good. Seems like same speed forward as reverse; works great for loader work. I actually use 1st and second gear low for everything. Snow blowing included.
kevin110

 

[560Dennis]

The Fordson reverse is very fast for loading onto my landscaping trailer. Got to lowest idle and bump clutch for smooth managing steering. Steel wheels on steel trailer ramp is like hitting frictionless grease spot. Don’t load on incline. Must manage trailer loading location with forethought of possible issues . Got to watch for spectators at shows coming off trailer at shows ,can’t see them behind me . When I hit the trailers loading ramp in reverse it’s a go ,no way to stop. I always warn on lookers stay away from trailer .

Loading Farmall C with cultivators or corn planter poses a the same dilemma in reverse. Manage clutch and brake pedals, hard to look for trailers side rails in older age physical mobility with 42 inch rear wheels spacing, inches to spare in most loads . Use the slip clutch as brake in low idle and brake steer.

 

[Harold Hubbard]

MF 175. Reverse low range, low Multipower, will get backed in anywhere unless it’s downhill.. Then the Multipower lets it run away, so you’re on the brakes, as well as the clutch.

Loader work, on the other hand is really frustrating. Too slow in low range reverse, too fast in high range in any gear.

 

[moresmoke]

Loader work. Reverse and fourth on the John Deeres. Short shifter movement. Good for loader work, but bad for cautious backing in tight places. Then when you mention loaders and hand clutches, it brings up other arguments. Remember the one-armed wallpaper hanger argument? Hand clutch. Hand hydraulic control. Hand bucket control. It's like playing a banjo, only not as much fun.

My JD 630 has left side controls for the hydraulics and 3pt. It was an option.

 

[m16ty]

Hi, I have a MF30 industrial. Shuttle shift 6x6. I never use high range, too fast .Low range is good. Seems like same speed forward as reverse; works great for loader work. I actually use 1st and second gear low for everything. Snow blowing included.
kevin110

I have a MF40 industrial, which is an older version of your MF30. It’s a little slower when shuttle to reverse but not much. I do all my loader work in low range, and I’ll go to 1st high when just driving. You can go to high 3rd out on the road, it’s pretty fast. Don’t even attempt high 3rd in reverse. I tried it once for fun, but you will likely crash if you get it up to speed.

 

[DanielW]

Why are a lot of tractors so fast in reverse? That’s a pet peeve of mine, when you are trying to back an implement and have to ride the clutch to keep from going so fast you can’t control it. Just tonight I was trying to tuck my manure spreader in the back of the shed with my JD 730 and was struggling. Between the hand clutch and the lightning fast reverse it’s a wonder I didn’t hit something. I now know why so many old 2 cylinder JDs have a hitch on the front, to back stuff into a shed.

Lots of other tractors are like this too. My Farmall 806 is pretty fast in reverse, but not as bad as the JD. Even my AC D19 is a little too fast, but at least you can feather the hand clutch without issue. All the old Fords were lightning fast in reverse too.

I’ve also got an Oliver 1850 and it’s just about right in reverse. Mine has the 3 speed and you can creep back in under, and still pretty slow in direct. I’ve also got a MF 40 industrial shuttle shift, and it goes plenty slow backing up.

I just don’t understand why manufactures made certain tractors that back up so fast.

Our Ford 5000 is probably my favourite tractor and certainly the most robust and durable tractor I've ever been around. But I have similar complaints about the reverse gears: Low reverse is a dead crawl. High reverse is a suitable freeway speed. I often wish there was a middle ground.

Mind you, back when we used the 5000 for loader work, you could move a heck of a lot of manure in a hurry with the high reverse. 6th forward and high reverse are a straight shot into each other, and when you got good you could shift with your right knee as you were clutching, operating the loader/throttle with one hand, and whipping the steering wheel around with the other. When you got good at rev-matching/double-clutching (the 5000 is one of the few tractors I've been able to double clutch effectively) those wheels never stopped moving. And with worn rubber on the rears and slick concrete underneath, you could do a lot of controlled sliding into certain corners and crevices to really clean up well. Helped by the fact that the hydraulics on the 5000 were so slow and the loader cylinders were so large that you always did loader work with the engine wound up to the max.

I used to be pretty abusive to that 5000 when cleaning manure. But I think I was still faster cleaning with it than I am with our more nimble, hydraulic shuttle, 4wd Kubota.