TORQUE: A Clear Example

Mopower

Well-known Member
After reading the recent discussion of torque vs. horsepower, I was moved to post a simple example. I will use the popular Farmall M & DivIV RPM as a baseline.

TORQUE = (5252 x HORSEPOWER) / RPM

HORSEPOWER = (TORQUE X RPM) / 5252

Equalize weight, speed, traction, and balance.

If a Farmall M makes 200hp @ 1920rpm, a Moline UB would need to make approximately 180hp @ 1720rpm, and a Deere G 140hp @ 1338rpm to generate equal pulling force. The same logic applies as rpm changes.

The science:

Torque, also called moment or moment of force (see the terminology below), is the tendency of a force to rotate an object about an axis, fulcrum, or pivot. Just as a force is a push or a pull, a torque can be thought of as a twist.

Loosely speaking, torque is a measure of the turning force on an object such as a bolt or a flywheel. For example, pushing or pulling the handle of a wrench connected to a nut or bolt produces a torque (turning force) that loosens or tightens the nut or bolt.

The terminology for this concept is not straightforward: In the US, in physics it is usually called "torque" and in mechanical engineering it is called "moment". However outside the US this varies. In the UK for instance, most physicists will use the term "moment". In mechanical engineering, the term "torque" means something different. In this article the word "torque" is always used to mean the same as "moment".
(Wikipedia)
 
well according to your post the deeres make the same torque at less hp and less rpm so in my book comparing stock tractors the deeres have more torque
 
The Deere may have more torque at the crankshaft, but to equalize ground speed at the different rpms for each respective tractor, the slower RPM tractor must run a higher gear ratio, effectivily reducing the torque at the axle. Just food for thought. Mike
 
understanding the black magic of a dyno
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamometer
to be confused with dynameter.
For the dynamometer used in railroading, see dynamometer car.

Early hydraulic dynamometer, with dead-weight torque measurement.A dynamometer or "dyno" for short, is a device for measuring force, moment of force (torque), or power. For example, the power produced by an engine, motor or other rotating prime mover can be calculated by simultaneously measuring torque and rotational speed (RPM).

A dynamometer can also be used to determine the torque and power required to operate a driven machine such as a pump. In that case, a motoring or driving dynamometer is used. A dynamometer that is designed to be driven is called an absorption or passive dynamometer. A dynamometer that can either drive or absorb is called a universal or active dynamometer.

In addition to being used to determine the torque or power characteristics of a machine under test (MUT), dynamometers are employed in a number of other roles. In standard emissions testing cycles such as those defined by the US Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA), dynamometers are used to provide simulated road loading of either the engine (using an engine dynamometer) or full powertrain (using a chassis dynamometer). In fact, beyond simple power and torque measurements, dynamometers can be used as part of a testbed for a variety of engine development activities such as the calibration of engine management controllers, detailed investigations into combustion behavior and tribology.

In the medical terminology, hand dynamometers are used for routine screening of grip strength and initial and ongoing evaluation of patients with hand trauma and dysfunction. They are also used to measure grip strength in patients where compromise of the cervical nerve roots or peripheral nerves is suspected.

In the rehabilitation, kinesiology, and ergonomics realms, force dynamometers are used for measuring the back, grip, arm, and/or leg strength of athletes, patients, and workers to evaluate physical status, performance, and task demands. Typically the force applied to a lever or through a cable are measured and then converted to a moment of force by multiplying by the perpendicular distance from the force to the axis of the level.[1]

Contents [hide]
1 Principles of operation of torque power (absorbing) dynamometers
2 Detailed dynamometer description
3 Types of dynamometers
3.1 Types of absorption/driver units
3.2 Eddy current type absorber
4 Powder dynamometer
5 Hysteresis dynamometers
5.1 Electric motor/generator dynamometer
5.2 Fan brake
5.3 Hydraulic brake
5.4 Water brake type absorber
5.5 Compound Dynamometers
6 How dynamometers are used for engine testing
7 Types of dynamometer systems
7.1 There are essentially 3 types of dynamometer test procedures
7.2 Engine dynamometer
7.3 Chassis dynamometer
7.4 Common misconceptions about dynos
8 History
9 See also
10 Notes
11 References

[edit] Principles of operation of torque power (absorbing) dynamometersAn absorbing dynamometer acts as a load that is driven by the prime mover that is under test (e.g. Pelton wheel). The dynamometer must be able to operate at any speed and load to any level of torque that the test requires.

Absorbing dynamometers are not to be confused with "inertia" dynamometers, which calculate power solely by measuring power required to accelerate a known mass drive roller and provide no variable load to the prime mover.

An Absorption dynamometer is usually equipped with some means of measuring the operating torque and speed.

The dynamometer's Power Absorption Unit absorbs the power developed by the prime mover. The power absorbed by the dynamometer is converted into heat and the heat generally dissipates into the ambient air or transfers to cooling water that dissipates into the air. Regenerative dynamometers, in which the prime mover drives a DC motor as a generator to create load, make excess DC power and potentially, using a DC/AC inverter, can feed AC power back into the commercial electrical power grid - where the power produced is eventually converted back into heat (as in an oven or light bulb, etc.).

Absorption dynamometers can be equipped with two types of control systems to provide different main test types.

Constant Force
The dynamometer has a "braking" torque regulator, the PAU (Power Absorption Unit) is configured to provide a set braking force torque load while the prime mover is configured to operate at whatever throttle opening, fuel delivery rate or any other variable it is desired to test. The prime mover is then allowed to accelerate the engine through the desired speed or RPM range. Constant Force test routines require the PAU to be set slightly torque deficient as referenced to prime mover output to allow some rate of acceleration. Power is calculated based on torque x RPM / 5252 + calculated power required for the acceleration rate that occurred.

Constant Speed
If the dynamometer has a speed regulator (human or computer), the PAU provides a variable mount of braking force (torque) that is necessary to cause the prime mover to operate at the desired single test speed or RPM. The PAU braking load applied to the prime mover to can be manually controlled or determined by a computer. Most systems employ eddy current, oil hydraulic or DC motor produced loads because of their linear and quick load change ability.

Power is calculated based on torque x RPM / 5252.

A motoring dynamometer acts as a motor that drives the equipment under test. It must be able to drive the equipment at any speed and develop any level of torque that the test requires. In common usage, AC or DC motors are used to drive the equipment or "load" device.

In most dynamometers power (P) is not measured directly; it must be calculated from torque (τ) and angular velocity (ω) values or force (F) and linear velocity (v):


or

where
P is the power in watts
τ is the torque in newton metres
ω is the angular velocity in radians per second
F is the force in newtons
v is the linear velocity in metres per second
Division by a conversion constant may be required depending on the units of measure used.

For imperial units,


where
Php is the power in horsepower
τlb·ft is the torque in pound-feet
ωRPM is the rotational velocity in revolutions per minute
For metric units,


where
PkW is the power in kilowatts
τN·m is the torque in newton metres
ωrpm is the rotational velocity in revolutions per minute
[edit] Detailed dynamometer description
Electrical dynamometer setup showing engine, torque measurement arrangement and tachometerA dynamometer consists of an absorption (or absorber/driver) unit, and usually includes a means for measuring torque and rotational speed. An absorption unit consists of some type of rotor in a housing. The rotor is coupled to the engine or other equipment under test and is free to rotate at whatever speed is required for the test. Some means is provided to develop a braking torque between dynamometer's rotor and housing. The means for developing torque can be frictional, hydraulic, electromagnetic etc. according to the type of absorption/driver unit.

One means for measuring torque is to mount the dynamometer housing so that it is free to turn except that it is restrained by a torque arm. The housing can be made free to rotate by using trunnions connected to each end of the housing to support the dyno in pedestal mounted trunnion bearings. The torque arm is connected to the dyno housing and a weighing scale is positioned so that it measures the force exerted by the dyno housing in attempting to rotate. The torque is the force indicated by the scales multiplied by the length of the torque arm measured from the center of the dynamometer. A load cell transducer can be substituted for the scales in order to provide an electrical signal that is proportional to torque.

Another means for measuring torque is to connect the engine to the dynamometer through a torque sensing coupling or torque transducer. A torque transducer provides an electrical signal that is proportional to torque.

With electrical absorption units, it is possible to determine torque by measuring the current drawn (or generated) by the absorber/driver. This is generally a less accurate method and not much practiced in modern times, but it may be adequate for some purposes.

When torque and speed signals are available, test data can be transmitted to a data acquisition system rather than being recorded manually. Speed and torque signals can also be recorded by a chart recorder or plotter.

[edit] Types of dynamometersIn addition to classification as Absorption, Motoring or Universal as described above, dynamometers can be classified in other ways.

A dyno that is coupled directly to an engine is known as an engine dyno.

A dyno that can measure torque and power delivered by the power train of a vehicle directly from the drive wheel or wheels (without removing the engine from the frame of the vehicle), is known as a chassis dyno.

Dynamometers can also be classified by the type of absorption unit or absorber/driver that they use. Some units that are capable of absorption only can be combined with a motor to construct an absorber/driver or universal dynamometer. The following types of absorption/driver units have been used:

[edit] Types of absorption/driver unitsEddy current or electromagnetic brake (absorption only)
Magnetic Powder brake (absorption only)
Hysteresis Brake (absorption only)
Electric motor/generator (absorb or drive)
Fan brake (absorption only)
Hydraulic brake (absorption only)
Mechanical friction brake or Prony brake (absorption only)
Water brake (absorption only)
Compound dyno (usually an absorption dyno in tandem with an electric/motoring dyno)
[edit] Eddy current type absorberEC dynamometers are currently the most common absorbers used in modern chassis dynos. The EC absorbers provide the quick load change rate for rapid load settling. Most are air cooled, but some are designed to require external water cooling systems.

Eddy current dynamometers require an electrically conductive core, shaft or disc, moving across a magnetic field to produce resistance to movement. Iron is a common material, but copper, aluminum and other conductive materials are usable.

In current (2009) applications, most EC brakes use cast iron discs, similar to vehicle disc brake rotors, and use variable electromagnets to change the magnetic field strength to control the amount of braking.

The electromagnet voltage is usually controlled by a computer, using changes in the magnetic field to match the power output being applied.

Sophisticated EC systems allow steady state and controlled acceleration rate operation.

[edit] Powder dynamometerA powder dynamometer is similar to an eddy current dynamometer, but a fine magnetic powder is placed in the air gap between the rotor and the coil. The resulting flux lines create "chains" of metal particulate that are constantly built and broken apart during rotation creating great torque. Powder dynamometers are typically limited to lower RPM due to heat dissipation issues.

[edit] Hysteresis dynamometersHysteresis dynamometers, use a steel rotor that is moved through flux lines generated between magnetic pole pieces. This design, as in the usual "disc type" eddy current absorbers, allows for full torque to be produced at zero speed, as well as at full speed. Heat dissipation is assisted by forced air. Hysteresis and "disc type" EC dynamometers are one of the most efficient technologies in small (200 hp (150 kW) and less) dynamometers. A hysteresis brake is an eddy current absorber that, unlike most "disc type" eddy current absorbers, puts the electromagnet coils inside a vented and ribbed cylinder and rotates the cylinder, instead of rotating a disc between electromagnets. The potential benefit for the hysteresis absorber is that the diameter can be decreased and operating RPM of the absorber may be increased.

[edit] Electric motor/generator dynamometerElectric motor/generator dynamometers are a specialized type of adjustable-speed drives. The absorption/driver unit can be either an alternating current (AC) motor or a direct current (DC) motor. Either an AC motor or a DC motor can operate as a generator that is driven by the unit under test or a motor that drives the unit under test. When equipped with appropriate control units, electric motor/generator dynamometers can be configured as universal dynamometers. The control unit for an AC motor is a variable-frequency drive and the control unit for a DC motor is a DC drive. In both cases, regenerative control units can transfer power from the unit under test to the electric utility. Where permitted, the operator of the dynamometer can receive payment (or credit) from the utility for the returned power.

In engine testing, universal dynamometers can not only absorb the power of the engine but also, drive the engine for measuring friction, pumping losses and other factors.

Electric motor/generator dynamometers are generally more costly and complex than other types of dynamometers.

[edit] Fan brakeA fan is used to blow air to provide engine load. Changing gearing or fan or simply measuring the max RPM attained.

[edit] Hydraulic brakeThe hydraulic brake system consists of a hydraulic pump (usually a gear type pump), a fluid reservoir and piping between the two parts. Inserted in the piping is an adjustable valve and between the pump and the valve is a gauge or other means of measuring hydraulic pressure. Usually, the fluid used was hydraulic oil, but recent synthetic multi-grade oils may be a better choice. In simplest terms, the engine is brought up to the desired RPM and the valve is incrementally closed and as the pumps outlet is restricted, the load increases and the throttle is simply opened until at the desired throttle opening. Unlike most other systems, power is calculated by factoring flow volume (calculated from pump design specs), hydraulic pressure and RPM. Brake HP, whether figured with pressure, volume and RPM or with a different load cell type brake dyno, should produce essentially identical power figures. Hydraulic dynos are renowned for having the absolute quickest load change ability, just slightly surpassing the eddy current absorbers. The downside is that they require large quantities of hot oil under high pressure and the requirement for an oil reservoir.

[edit] Water brake type absorberThe water brake absorber is sometimes mistakenly called a "hydraulic dynamometer." Water brake absorbers are relatively common, having been manufactured for many years and noted for their high power capability, small package, light weight, and relatively low manufacturing cost as compared to other, quicker reacting "power absorber" types.

Their drawbacks are that they can take a relatively long period of time to "stabilize" their load amount and the fact that they require a constant supply of water to the "water brake housing" for cooling. In many parts of the country[where?], environmental regulations now prohibit "flow through" water and large water tanks must be installed to prevent contaminated water from entering the environment.

The schematic shows the most common type of water brake, the variable level type. Water is added until the engine is held at a steady RPM against the load. Water is then kept at that level and replaced by constant draining and refilling, which is needed to carry away the heat created by absorbing the horsepower. The housing attempts to rotate in response to the torque produced but is restrained by the scale or torque metering cell that measures the torque.


This schematic shows a water brake, which is actually a fluid coupling with a housing restrained from rotating—similar to a water pump with no outlet.[edit] Compound DynamometersIn most cases, motoring dynamometers are symmetrical; a 300 kW AC dynamometer can absorb 300 kW as well as motor at 300 kW. This is an uncommon requirement in engine testing and development. Sometimes, a more cost-effective solution is to attach a larger absorption dynamometer with a smaller motoring dynamometer; alternatively, a larger absorption dynamometer and a simple AC or DC motor may be used in a similar manner with the electric motor only providing motoring power when required and no absorption. The (cheaper) absorption dynamometer is sized for the maximum required absorption, whereas the motoring dynamometer is sized for motoring. A typical size ratio for common emission test cycles and most engine development is approximately 3:1. Torque measurement is somewhat complicated since there are two machines in tandem; an inline torque transducer is the preferred method of torque measurement in this case. An eddy-current or waterbrake dynamometer with electronic control combined with a variable frequency drive and AC induction motor is a commonly used configuration of this type. Disadvantages include requiring a second set of test cell services (electrical power and cooling), and a slightly more complicated control system. Attention must be paid to the transition between motoring and braking in terms of control stability.

[edit] How dynamometers are used for engine testingDynamometers are useful in the development and refinement of modern day engine technology. The concept is to use a dyno to measure and compare power transfer at different points on a vehicle, thus allowing the engine or drivetrain to be modified to get more efficient power transfer. For example, if an engine dyno shows that a particular engine achieves 400 N·m (300 lbf·ft) of torque, and a chassis dynamo shows only 350 N·m (260 lbf·ft), one would know to look to the drivetrain for the major improvements. Dynamometers are typically very expensive pieces of equipment, reserved for certain fields that rely on them for a particular purpose.

[edit] Types of dynamometer systems
Dyno graph 1
Dyno graph 2A brake dynamometer applies variable load on the Prime Mover (PM) and measures the PM's ability to move or hold the RPM as related to the "braking force" applied. It is usually connected to a computer that records applied braking torque and calculates engine power output based on information from a "load cell" or "strain gauge" and RPM (speed sensor).

An inertia dynamometer provides a fixed inertial mass load and calculates the power required to accelerate that fixed, known mass and uses a computer to record RPM and acc. rate to calculate torque. The engine is generally tested from somewhat above idle to its maximum RPM and the output is measured and plotted on a graph.

A motoring dynamometer provides the features of a brake dyne system, but in addition, can "power" (usually with an AC or DC motor) the Prime Mover (PM) and allow testing of very small power small outputs. Example, duplicating speeds and loads that are experienced when operating a vehicle traveling downhill or on/off throttle operations.

[edit] There are essentially 3 types of dynamometer test procedures1.Steady state (only on brake dynamometers), where the engine is held at a specified RPM (or series of usually sequential RPMs) for a desired amount of time by the variable brake loading as provided by the PAU (power absorber unit)
2.Sweep test (on inertia or brake dynamometers), where the engine is tested under a load (inertia or brake loading), but allowed to "sweep" up in RPM in a continuous fashion, from a specified lower "starting" RPM to a specified "end" RPM
3.Transient test (usually on AC or DC dynamometers), where the engine power and speed are varied throughout the test cycle. Different test cycles are used in different jurisdictions. Chassis test cycles include the US light-duty UDDS, HWFET, US06, SC03, ECE, EUDC, and CD34. Engine test cycles include ETC, HDDTC, HDGTC, WHTC, WHSC, and ED12.
Types of Sweep Tests:

1.Inertia sweep: An inertia dyno system provides a fixed inertial mass flywheel and computes the power required to accelerate the flywheel (load) from the starting to the ending RPM. The actual rotational mass of the engine or engine and vehicle in the case of a chassis dyno is not known and the variability of even tire mass will skew power results. The inertia value of the flywheel is "fixed," so low power engines are under load for a much longer time and internal engine temperatures are usually too high by the end of the test, skewing optimal "dyno" tuning settings away from the outside world's optimal tuning settings. Conversely, high powered engines, commonly complete a common "4th gear sweep" test in less than 10 seconds, which is not a reliable load condition as compared to operation in the outside world. By not providing enough time under load, internal combustion chamber temps are unrealistically low and power readings, especially past the power peak, are skewed low.
1.Loaded Sweep Tests (brake dyno type) consist of 2 types:
1.Simple fixed Load Sweep Test: A fixed load, of somewhat less than the engine's output, is applied during the test. The engine is allowed to accelerate from its starting RPM to its ending RPM, varying in its own acceleration rate, depending on power output at any particular RPM point Power is calculated using torque * RPM / 5252 + the power required to accelerate the dyno and engine's / vehicle's rotating mass.
2.Controlled Acceleration Sweep Test: Similar in basic usage as the above Simple fixed Load Sweep Test, but with the addition of active load control that targets a specific rate of acceleration. Commonly, 20fps/ps is used.
Controlled Acceleration Rate test is that the acc. rate used is controlled from low power to high power engines and over extension and contraction of "test duration" is avoided, providing more repeatable tests and tuning results.

In every Sweep Test, there is still the remaining issue of potential power reading error due to the variable engine / dyno / vehicle total rotating mass. Many modern computer controlled brake dyno systems are capable of deriving that "inertial mass" value to eliminate the error.

Interestingly, A "sweep test" will always be suspect, as many "sweep" users ignore the rotating mass factor and prefer to use a blanket "factor" on every test, on every engine or vehicle. Simple inertia dyne systems aren't capable of deriving "inertial mass" and are forced to use the same assumed inertial mass on every vehicle.

Using Steady State testing eliminates a Sweep Test rotating inertial mass error , as there is no acceleration during a Steady State test.

Transient Test Characteristics: Aggressive throttle movements, engine speed changes, and engine motoring are characteristics of most transient engine tests. The usual purpose of these tests are for vehicle emissions development and homologation. In some cases, the lower-cost eddy-current dynamometer is used to test one of the transient test cycles for early development and calibration. An eddy current dyne system offers fast load response, which allows rapid tracking of speed and load, but does not allow motoring. Since most required transient tests contain a significant amount of motoring operation, a transient test cycle with an eddy-current dyno will generate different emissions test results. Final adjustments are required to be done on a motoring-capable dyno.

[edit] Engine dynamometer
HORIBA engine dynamometer TITANAn engine dynamometer measures power and torque directly from the engine's crankshaft (or flywheel), when the engine is removed from the vehicle. These dynos do not account for power losses in the drivetrain, such as the gearbox, transmission or differential etc.

[edit] Chassis dynamometer
Saab 96 on chassis dynamometerA chassis dynamometer measures power delivered to the surface of the "drive roller" by the drive wheels. The vehicle is often parked on the roller or rollers, which the car then turns and the output is measured.

Modern roller type chassis dyne systems use the Salvisberg roller,[2] which improved traction and repeatability over smooth or knurled drive rollers.

On a motorcycle, typical power loss at higher power levels, mostly through tire flex, is about 10%[citation needed] and gearbox chain and other power transferring parts are another 2% to 5%[citation needed].

Other types of chassis dynamometers are available that eliminate the potential wheel slippage on old style drive rollers and attach directly to the vehicle's hubs for direct torque measurement from the axle. Hub mounted dynos include units made by Dynapack and Rototest.

Chassis dynos can be fixed or portable.

Modern chassis dynamometers can do much more than display RPM, horsepower, and torque. With modern electronics and quick reacting, low inertia dyne systems, it is now possible to tune to best power and the smoothest runs, in realtime.

In retail settings it is also common to "tune the air fuel ratio" , using a wideband oxygen sensor that is graphed along with RPM.

Some, dyne systems can also add vehicle diagnostic information to the dyno graph as well. This is done by gathering data directly from the vehicle using on-board diagnostics communication.[3]

Emissions development and homologation dynamometer test systems often integrate emissions sampling, measurement, engine speed and load control, data acquisition, and safety monitoring into a complete test cell system. These test systems usually include complex emissions sampling equipment (such as constant volume samplers or raw exhaust gas sample preparation systems), and exhaust emissions analyzers. These analyzers are much more sensitive and much faster than a typical portable exhaust gas analyzer. Response times of well under one second are common and required by many transient test cycles.

Integration of the dynamometer control system along with automatic calibration tools for engine system calibration is often found in development test cell systems. In these test cell systems, the dynamometer load and engine speed are varied to many engine operating points, and selected engine management parameters are varied and the results recorded automatically. Later analysis of this data may then be used to generate engine calibration data used by the engine management software.

Because of frictional and mechanical losses in the various drivetrain components, the measured rear wheel brake horsepower is generally 15-20 percent less than the brake horsepower measured at the crankshaft or flywheel on an engine dynamometer.[4] Other sources, after researching several different "engine" dyno software packages, found that the engine dyno user can integrally add "frictional loss" channel factors of +10% to +15% to the flywheel power, raising the claim that 20% to 25% or even more power is actually lost between the crankshaft at high power outputs.

[edit] Common misconceptions about dynos This section may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this section if you can. The talk page may contain suggestions. (December 2008)

Drag racing: 1/4 mile prediction based on dynamometer measured power

Horsepower figures are a strong predictor but do not guarantee a specific 0-60 mph, 1/4 mile elapsed time (ET) or 1/4 mile speed. An engine accelerating in a vehicle experiences different conditions than on a dyno. G forces and different temperatures as well as different modes of vibration in a vehicle can cause significant differences in power output.

Inexpensive "inertia dynamometers" commonly provide insufficient loading, and complete their "test" in less time than the real world 1/4 mile takes, causing inherent power value errors, due to unrealistic internal engine temperatures.

More sophisticated dyne systems are capable of "loaded testing," which can potentially recreate the same temperatures as on the drag strip.

In engineering units, the power figures used should be "True" or "Effective" horsepower scale.

Engine damage: Can dyno testing damage engines?

A brake dyno, in steady state mode only provides a load that is equal the amount of power that the engine is making at any specifically selected RPM point. If the engine makes 200 brake HP at 5000 RPM, the dynamometer's brake or power absorber will provide exactly 200 hp (150 kW) of load against it, keeping the RPM at 5000 RPM.

That's a realistic load that simulates a vehicle pulling a large trailer up a hill. It should be no problem on the dyno if there's no problem on the road.

Apprehension over dyno testing and engine damage has solid roots in fact. Old style dynamometers commonly used an inexpensive water brake type of power absorber. Load was increased or decreased by filling and draining water in the housing to change the amount of internal water volume to change the load, all the while draining and refilling the water to keep the water from boiling. It would sometimes take some time for the operator or computer to stabilize inflow and outflow rates. That extra time could pose a risk to engines.

Water brakes are still commonly used in applications where their small size and light weight are important and engine torque curves are relatively straight, as in large automotive and boats.

Engine testing may damage engines primarily due to insufficient instrumentation, insufficient safety monitoring systems, and insufficient cooling. An engine on a dyno does not receive air cooling due to engine speeds. Automotive engines are not typically designed for wide-open throttle operation for extended periods of time; internal components may overheat and fail.

[edit] HistoryGaspard de Prony invented the de Prony brake in 1821. The de Prony brake (or Prony brake) is considered to be one of the earliest dynamometers.

Froude Hofmann of Worcester, UK, manufactures engine and vehicle dynamometers. They credit William Froude with the invention of the hydraulic dynamometer in 1877 and say that the first commercial dynamometers were produced in 1881 by their predecessor company, Heenan & Froude.

In 1928, the German company "Carl Schenck Eisengießerei & Waagenfabrik" built the first vehicle dynamometers for brake tests with the basic design of the today's vehicle test stands.

The eddy current dynamometer was invented by Martin and Anthony Winther in about 1931. At that time, DC Motor/generator dynamometers had been in use for many years. A company founded by the Winthers, Dynamatic Corporation, manufactured dynamometers in Kenosha, Wisconsin until 2002. Dynamatic was part of Eaton Corporation from 1946 to 1995. In 2002, [2] Dyne Systems of Jackson, Wisconsin acquired the Dynamatic dynamometer product line. Starting in 1938, Heenan & Froude manufactured eddy current dynamometers for many years under license from Dynamatic and Eaton.[5]

[edit] See alsoDynamometer car for railroad usage
Engine test stand dynamometer for engines, e.g. combustion engines
Hand strength dynamometer
Machine tool dynamometer
Miles per gallon
Universal testing machine
[edit] Notes1.^ [1] Dynamometry
2.^ http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=10&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=salvisberg&OS=salvisberg&RS=salvisberg
3.^ Elisa Faustrum. "DynoJet Data-Link Module". Modular Fords. Archived from the original on September 28, 2007. http://web.archive.org/web/20070928063127/http://www.modularfords.com/articles/DynoJet_DataLink_Module/1.html. Retrieved June 14, 2007.
4.^ John Dinkel, "Chassis Dynamometer," Road and Track Illustrated Automotive Dictionary, (Bentley Publishers, 2000) p. 46.
5.^ Winther, Martin P. (1976). Eddy Currents. Cleveland, Ohio: Eaton Corporation.
[edit] References Wikimedia Commons has media related to: Dynamometers

Winther, J. B. (1975). Dynamometer Handbook of Basic Theory and Applications. Cleveland, Ohio: Eaton Corporation.
Martyr, A; Plint M (2007). Engine Testing - Theory and Practice (Third ed.). Oxford, UK: Butterworth-Heinemann. ISBN 978-0-7506-8439-2.
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Yes, you would be correct. I am comparing Nebraska Test data for DISTILLATE fuel including both A & G Deere models.

IH M = 126lb.ft. @ 1450rpm
MM U = 150lb.ft. @ 1300rpm
Dr G = 205lb.ft. @ 975rpm
Dr A = 159lb.ft. @ 975rpm

Because a Deere G wasn't tested using gasoline, I am comparing 1950's replacement models.

IH SM = 168lb.ft. @ 1450
MM UB = 195lb.ft. @ 1300
Dr 70 = 260lb.ft. @ 975
Dr 60 = 216lb.ft. @ 975

There's fact based on scientific test data for STOCK machines. It would be interesting to know how models compare after a 25% reduction in engine speed or with M&W kits etc.
 
The word horsepower was introduced by James Watt, the inventor of the steam engine in about 1775. Watt learned that "a strong horse could lift 150 pounds a height of 220 feet in 1 minute." One horsepower is also commonly expressed as 550 pounds one foot in one second or 33,000 pounds one foot in one minute. These are just different ways of saying the same thing. Notice these definitions includes force (pounds), distance (feet), and time, (minute, second). A horse could hold weight in a static position but this would not be considered horsepower, it would be similar to what we call torque. Adding time and distance to a static force (or to torque) results in horsepower. RPM, revolutions (distance) per minute (time), is today's equivalent of time and distance. Back to horses, imagine a horse raising coal out of a coal mine. A horse exerting one horsepower could raise 550 pounds of coal one foot every second.

Here is an example of another way horsepower could be directly measured. Say you have a horse hitched to a plow. In the hitch is a spring scale (like a fish scale). The horse pulls the plow one foot every second and you see 550 pounds on the scale. That horse would be generating one horsepower.

We see horsepower can be directly measured. However there is a problem directly measuring horsepower of modern day internal combustion engines because they produce rotary motion not linear motion, and unless the engine is geared down, the speed at which they do work (time and distance or RPM) is too great for practical direct measurement of horsepower. It seems logical then that the solution was to directly measure torque (rotational force eventually expressed in pounds at one foot radius) and RPM (time and distance, i.e. distance in circumference at the one foot radius) and from these calculate horsepower. Torque and RPM are easily measured directly. Early dynamometers used a brake device to load the engine. A torque arm was attached to this brake's stator. The brake's rotor was coupled to the engine's crankshaft. A spring scale or other measuring device connected the torque arm to the stationary fixture holding the engine and brake. During a test the brake's application loaded the engine. Torque and engine rpm were observed and recorded. nnalert a description of how this happens on our dyno.

On modern day dynamometers horsepower is a calculated value. It's important to remember the dyno measures torque and rpm and then from these calculates horsepower. On the dyno it takes more water flow to the water brake to increase the load on the engine being tested. As the test engine's torque rises more water flow is needed. As the test engine's torque drops less water flow is needed. The dyno's water brake does not respond to Horsepower. Major adjustments to water flow are needed as an engine crosses its torque peak but none are needed as it crosses its horsepower peak. In other words the water flow to the brake during a dyno test follows the engines torque curve and not its horsepower curve. Torque is what twists the tire, prop, or pump. Horsepower helps us understand an amount or quantity of torque. (Torque + time and distance)

Now if we are measuring torque and RPM how can we calculate horsepower? Where does the equation HP=TORQUE X RPM / 5252 come from? We will use Watts observation of one horsepower as 150 pounds, 220 feet in one minute. First we need express 150 pounds of force as foot pounds torque.

(The * symbol means multiply in the explanations below.)

Pretend the force of 150 pounds is "applied" tangentially to a one foot radius circle. This would be 150 foot pounds torque.
Next we need to express 220 feet in one minute as RPM.

The circumference of a one foot radius circle is 6.283186 feet. ft. (Pi * diameter; 3.141593 * 2 feet)
The distance of 220 feet, divided by 6.283185 feet, gives us a RPM of 35.014.
We are then talking about 150 pounds of force (150 foot pounds torque), 35 RPM, and one horsepower.

Constant (X) = 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM / 1hp

35.014 * 150 / 1 = 5252.1

5252 is the constant.

So then hp = torque * RPM / 5252


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Here is another way; Remember we know 150 foot pounds and 35.014 RPM = one horsepower

1hp is to 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM as X hp is to observed ft.lbs.torque * observed RPM

Example; We dyno test and observe 400 ft.lbs. torque at 5000 RPM

1 hp is to 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM as X hp is to 400 ft.lbs. * 5000 RPM

When we cross multiply X hp * (150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM) = 1hp * (400 ft.lbs. * 5000 RPM)

X hp * (5252 ft.lbs. RPM) = 1 hp * (2,000,000 ft.lbs. RPM)

Divide both sides by 5252 ft.lbs. RPM

X hp = 1 hp * 380.80

X hp = 380.80 hp

Horsepower = torque X rpm / 5252

Here's an interesting bit of trivia; below 5252 rpm any engine's torque number will always be higher than its horsepower number, and above 5252 rpm any engine's horsepower number will always be higher than its torque number. At 5252 rpm the horsepower and torque numbers will be exactly the same.


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I've been told it also involves something called "radians". (See a definition of radians in the comments link below) I am not an engineer so my explanation may not be technically correct with out using "radians".

Comments from others on this subject.

If you have any questions please e-mail me the current address is on the RevSearch Home Page.

Check out the RevSearch Engine Dynamometer home page for more information on high performance engine building and dyno testing.



RevSearch ©01-03-2000 JL
 
Yes, this data is strictly engine based with complete disregard for the drive train and efficiency of power transfer. On the track, other physics factors pile up (no pun intended). My intention was to show how it is possible for one engine to defeat another engine of higher horsepower. A torque curve is another interesting factor to consider. What happens to a variety of engines as rpm drops under a load?
 
(quoted from post at 13:48:21 01/17/11) Yes, this data is strictly engine based with complete disregard for the drive train and efficiency of power transfer. On the track, other physics factors pile up (no pun intended). My intention was to show how it is possible for one engine to defeat another engine of higher horsepower. A torque curve is another interesting factor to consider. What happens to a variety of engines as rpm drops under a load?
Mopower don't take my post bad .I just like technical stuff. It makes me all giddy inside.
 
(quoted from post at 13:21:55 01/17/11) The Deere may have more torque at the crankshaft, but to equalize ground speed at the different rpms for each respective tractor, the slower RPM tractor must run a higher gear ratio, effectivily reducing the torque at the axle. Just food for thought. Mike

Not correct. If the same size tire is used pulling the same load at the same speed the torque on the axle is exactly the same. The torque at the crankshaft all depends on how many rpms the engine is running.

Why do you think lugging an engine is bad? Because the torque rises up to such a level that internal stresses on the engine can reach catastrophic levels.

This entire discussion is nothing but figures flying around until we see a dyno chart showing the horsepower and/or torque curves.

I do see where this thread is headed, the Farmall and Oliver guys with the higher rpm engines will argue that horsepower is king and the Deere and Moline guys with the lower rpm engines will argue that torque is king.
 
check this out if you want to loose the load. I cant cut and paste the whole article the site dont like jerry stahls choice of words so here is the link
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_measurement_1.htm
 
I'm not claiming brand superiority, lugging power, axle torque, or engine stresses. I listed what horsepower was needed to produce equal twisting force to the engine's crankshaft at a specific rpm. This is simply what torque IS as a definition.

Equal drawbar pulling force would be a result, if all other factors were truly "equal", which is an impossible scenario. I purposely left out torque curves, axle torque, efficiency, etc for purposes of using the definition of "torque" in an example, using known models.

If you want to get into a brand battle over who's best, we can all play "beer and bull" all day long. It's fun. See my post based on stock Nebraska Test data of red, green, and yellow. I calculated torque based on horsepower at a rpm. That is a solid estimate, not numbers out of a hat. Deere beats all, but we know it's a different story in the winner's circle because of some of the things you just mentioned.
 
Aaaannnndd....when you consider these next facts , it's a wonder the JD,s are even as competitive in the high cube "modified" / stock classes as they are. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to reallize that 500 cu in can be filled quicker and more completely with 4 or 6 intake valves than "2". It is a credit to JD and the few who know how to "really" build them that they can even begin to fill two 250 cu in cylinders through two limited sized valves and a single intake runner from carb at a relatively low rpm. If they ever produce an aftermarket head ,cast with valves and intake and exhaust runners of sufficient size to feed 500 cu in and paint it green to make it "stock" , the other brands could probably go home. Unfortunately for Deere , it's design prohibits one from interchanging parts from a later larger 65 hp engine on to a 30-40hp tractor and still have it look stock. Seems to me that for this discussion the Nebraska test specs need one more figure to level the playing field and that is cu in displacement of the listed engines. Even tho I'm JD and the G was probably not on "gas" it is a 400+ cu in engine. The A is 100 less and don't know what the other two are. You make your point well but I don't think these tractors were all "apples to apples" so to speak in their day. Feel free to throw me under the bus on this , I'm used to it.
 
Nope. Makes perfect sense to me. I used A and G as examples because hard to compare either to a M, U, or 88. My goal was to explain the definition of torque. My 39 Deere H was my first pulling tractor. 99 cubes!
 
Another thing to consider. As per the formula, you can say that two engines with the same HP turning at the same speed must have the same TQ. Also, two engines with the same HP turning at different speeds must have different TQ values. Now let's assume for the sake of the discussion that power transfer to the wheels is 100% for the two tractors. If the two different brand tractors have the same HP running different engine speeds then they have different TQ at the flywheel. BUT, if they have the same HP at the wheels, and the wheels are turning the same speed, then the TQ at the wheels must be the same. This is because of different gear reductions through the transmission. So even though the JD engine may have way more TQ than the Oliver, at the wheels the TQ could be equal, if their gear speed is equal. Again this is at a certain engine speed where the HP of the two engines is equal. When both engines drop say 10%, they may no longer have equal HP, and even though they both lost an equal 10% in wheel speed, the TQ can now be different at the wheels.
 
Hey Mopower I am reading nebraska tests and my book says
Test no 475 1952 Super M 362.8 ft lbs at 991 rpms
Test no 472 1952 JD 60 251.3 ft lbs at 653 rpms
Test no 493 1953 JD 70 281.9 ft lbs at 835 rpms
Test no 499 1953 AC WD-45 287.9 ft lbs at 867 rpms
Test no 520 1954 MM UB 305.6 ft lbs at 920 rpms

im not sure how a JD has more torque when a JD 70 has 379.5 cu in and a WD 45 has 226 cu in and the AC has more torque at basically the same rpm
 
Hmm, that's interesting based on the torque formula. Wow. Gotta check my figures. Are my units off? Just noticed the torque numbers on the tests!
 
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