Tractor Stability Question

[FinallyFarming]

I have a 706 with a narrow front end and a bucket loader.

Since I'm new to tractors I am asking for advice on safely using the loader with this narrow front end configuration until I get a wide front end.
I am assuming that the tractor is less stable with the narrow front end than it would be with a wide front end as far as using a bucket loader is concerned, but how much so?

The last thing I want is to tip the tractor over.

Using common sense, I intend to be VERY careful and very conservative in the loads I pick up, and of course, will not load heavy or unbalanced to either side.
What else must I pay attention to or be aware of? Are these things easy to tip over?

Thanks

 

[Red Dave]

There seems to be an old wives tale out there that narrow front tractors will flip over in a strong breeze. With a little attention to your terrain and applying some common sense, you can be quite stable. I've seen wide front tractors and even bulldozers flipped over, nothing is immune to a poor operator.

Keep your rear wheels set apart as far as you can, put liquid in the tires for stability and add a few rear wheel weights to keep the rear end planted securely. Then carry your loads as low as possible, the higher you have a loaded bucket, the more stability gets compromised, especially on a side hill.

And keep in mind that you are driving a farm tractor, not a bulldozer.

 

[D Slater]

I have a 706 with a narrow front end and a bucket loader.

Since I'm new to tractors I am asking for advice on safely using the loader with this narrow front end configuration until I get a wide front end.
I am assuming that the tractor is less stable with the narrow front end than it would be with a wide front end as far as using a bucket loader is concerned, but how much so?

The last thing I want is to tip the tractor over.

Using common sense, I intend to be VERY careful and very conservative in the loads I pick up, and of course, will not load heavy or unbalanced to either side.
What else must I pay attention to or be aware of? Are these things easy to tip over?

Thanks

Helps to have weight on rear wheels, fluid weights and weight on rear hitch for heavy lifting. Never raise heavy load high without being on stable ground. when moving keep load low if possible. Always have hand on lever ready to lower loader if it starts to tip. Run a lot of loaders in my working life and some seem like they tilt a mile before the wide front hits the tilt stops. If load is very high it probably won't stop tilting at stop. With a bucket wide as machine or wider have stopped a bunch of times from going over by getting bucket on ground.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

The tractor is not going to randomly flop on its side like a fainting goat, if that's what you mean.

Driving fast over rough ground with the loader raised all the way up, or driving along a steep side hill with the loader raised high, are two major causes of rollover.

Your rear wheels provide nearly all of the stability regardless of wide or narrow front. Remember that wide fronts pivot, and they don't do anything to stop you from rolling until it's really too late.

Use common sense but don't mistake irrational fear for common sense. Run with the bucket at frame rail height and drive at a reasonable speed for the conditions and you will be just fine.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Turn slow. They don’t tip super easy if you can stay out of the ditch. Sidehills and accidents in the ditch where the operator was mowing or accidents where the operator ended up in the ditch from the road seem to be the worst rollovers around here but it’s pretty flat. I ran a 3 wheeler terragator for a few years even the worst hill you would just make sure your seatbelt was on hold the bar on the ceiling and let it cruise on doing it’s thing just don’t turn. It sounds like you have the right mindset to make it work safely. If you accidentally put the nose in the ditch pushing snow or something it might be safer to hop off and pull yourself out with something else I know yours is a bit big for the pickup to yank but if you have another tractor around with winter fuel don’t struggle trying to get yourself out with the loader too much. Hook a chain and pop it out.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I have a 706 with a narrow front end and a bucket loader.

Since I'm new to tractors I am asking for advice on safely using the loader with this narrow front end configuration until I get a wide front end.
I am assuming that the tractor is less stable with the narrow front end than it would be with a wide front end as far as using a bucket loader is concerned, but how much so?

The last thing I want is to tip the tractor over.

Using common sense, I intend to be VERY careful and very conservative in the loads I pick up, and of course, will not load heavy or unbalanced to either side.
What else must I pay attention to or be aware of? Are these things easy to tip over?

There are some people who drive around with the bucket all the way up when the loader is not in use. I don’t know why they do it. Not a good idea. Not that an empty bucket is particularly top-heavy, but in some cases you could hook any overhead wires around your home.

 

[Dave H (MI)]

I have a 706 with a narrow front end and a bucket loader.

Since I'm new to tractors I am asking for advice on safely using the loader with this narrow front end configuration until I get a wide front end.
I am assuming that the tractor is less stable with the narrow front end than it would be with a wide front end as far as using a bucket loader is concerned, but how much so?

The last thing I want is to tip the tractor over.

Using common sense, I intend to be VERY careful and very conservative in the loads I pick up, and of course, will not load heavy or unbalanced to either side.
What else must I pay attention to or be aware of? Are these things easy to tip over?

Thanks

Many years ago a midwestern university did a study and issued a report on this topic. Narrow front tractors put three points on the ground thus creating a tripod. Like a camera would use. The reason cameras are on tripods is that it is the most stable configuration. Any loader tractor with a load above the center of gravity is at risk of tipping regardless of the number of wheels. You can put all the weight down low that you want, and it will help, but you still need to be aware of your center or you will become unstable in turns. I have often seen inexperienced users with loads raised high...bad choice. Keep your load down low, drive slowly and turn carefully. If you have to lift high to load a truck or something, do it at the last moment when you are straight and on level ground. No worries then.

 

[Turkeyfoot]

Many years ago a midwestern university did a study and issued a report on this topic. Narrow front tractors put three points on the ground thus creating a tripod. Like a camera would use. The reason cameras are on tripods is that it is the most stable configuration. Any loader tractor with a load above the center of gravity is at risk of tipping regardless of the number of wheels. You can put all the weight down low that you want, and it will help, but you still need to be aware of your center or you will become unstable in turns. I have often seen inexperienced users with loads raised high...bad choice. Keep your load down low, drive slowly and turn carefully. If you have to lift high to load a truck or something, do it at the last moment when you are straight and on level ground. No worries then.

Just a s small point of clarification that you'll likely appreciate. The reason tripods are used with many scientific instruments like telescopes and cameras is that it's impossible to have a wobble with three legs. This is because three points define a plane. It's the same with furniture. A table or chair with four legs can have a wobble, but a three-legged stool or three-legged table, while perhaps not as stable with respect to tipping, will never wobble.

 

[Janicholson]

The answers above are solid. I have years of experience using loaders on narrow front tractors. They are more maneuverable because they turn more sharply. The key element, as noted for loader work is rear wheel width setting, and rear weight in the wheels, or lifted on the hitch. Wide fronts are going to tip at nearly the same conditions as a narrow, and by the time the wide front tips to the limit of the axle in the pivot/bolster, the tipping will have been exaggerated far enough to just keep going. The worst is an operator that believes the wide front makes it more stable. That causes extension of the risk taken. A bad idea. Jim

 

[used red MN]

I should get some drawings of the front of a Farmall with both the narrow and wide fronts and draw some center lines on them to help explain what I am going to say here. A lot of the idea that a wide front tractor is much more stable then a narrow front is plain and simple the brain telling you the distance between the front tires is making the tractor more stable, which it does to an extent. A wide front end has a pivot upon which the front end can tip on. The wide front does have stops but if the tractor has enough tipping momentum it hits the stop and raises the tire on the high side of the tip off the ground. Yes, the wide front is more stable. The difference between the two is the difference in leverage the weight has when it gets off center. On a wide front the lever distance is from horizontal weight center line of the tractor to the wide front pivot. On a narrow front it is from the same horizontal weight centerline to where the front tires touch the ground. Maybe that makes sense to some maybe not. My main point is that aside from the wide tread width of the wide front making it look stable, the stability is only there to a point because of the pivot for the wide front. I am sure if the majority of you were riding with me on my M with a narrow front when I head through a certain ditch I often pass through on my mothers farm most of you would “abandon ship” thinking she will be tipping over, but nope. I like Barnyard’s analogy that “The tractor is not going to randomly flop on its side like a fainting goat”

 

[Janicholson]

I should get some drawings of the front of a Farmall with both the narrow and wide fronts and draw some center lines on them to help explain what I am going to say here. A lot of the idea that a wide front tractor is much more stable then a narrow front is plain and simple the brain telling you the distance between the front tires is making the tractor more stable, which it does to an extent. A wide front end has a pivot upon which the front end can tip on. The wide front does have stops but if the tractor has enough tipping momentum it hits the stop and raises the tire on the high side of the tip off the ground. Yes, the wide front is more stable. The difference between the two is the difference in leverage the weight has when it gets off center. On a wide front the lever distance is from horizontal weight center line of the tractor to the wide front pivot. On a narrow front it is from the same horizontal weight centerline to where the front tires touch the ground. Maybe that makes sense to some maybe not. My main point is that aside from the wide tread width of the wide front making it look stable, the stability is only there to a point because of the pivot for the wide front. I am sure if the majority of you were riding with me on my M with a narrow front when I head through a certain ditch I often pass through on my mothers farm most of you would “abandon ship” thinking she will be tipping over, but nope. I like Barnyard’s analogy that “The tractor is not going to randomly flop on its side like a fainting goat”

I agree, The 2 wheel narrow front tipping point is the outside of the curve/downhill tires contact patch which is off the Centerline, keeping some mass effect on the side of stability. This would not be the case with a single front tire. I think that some European tractors have had substantial springs in place that actually do increase initial and at the tipping point stability. I have seen these suspension systems on 4X4 and FWA, as well as Quad Track new tractors sold here. All the better. Jim

 

[tractorguy2]

In the 70's we ran a.Farmall M nf.with a loader. Never did ever up set it. Use to see a lot of Case DC tractors with Farm hand F10 loaders at farm sales. They must not have upset.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Just a s small point of clarification that you'll likely appreciate. The reason tripods are used with many scientific instruments like telescopes and cameras is that it's impossible to have a wobble with three legs. This is because three points define a plane. It's the same with furniture. A table or chair with four legs can have a wobble, but a three-legged stool or three-legged table, while perhaps not as stable with respect to tipping, will never wobble.

A wide front tractor will also not have a wobble because the front axle articulates on its pin so all four wheels remain on the ground.

 

[ss55]

I have a 706 with a narrow front end and a bucket loader.

Since I'm new to tractors I am asking for advice on safely using the loader with this narrow front end configuration until I get a wide front end.
I am assuming that the tractor is less stable with the narrow front end than it would be with a wide front end as far as using a bucket loader is concerned, but how much so?

The last thing I want is to tip the tractor over.

Using common sense, I intend to be VERY careful and very conservative in the loads I pick up, and of course, will not load heavy or unbalanced to either side.
What else must I pay attention to or be aware of? Are these things easy to tip over?

Thanks

The loader and how it is operated will have more influence on the tractor's stability than what style of front end is on the tractor. Keep the loader bucket low when moving, avoid turning and reduce speed when the bucket raised high.

Tongue in cheek - removing the loader will do more to improve the tractor's stability than changing the front end.

 

[FinallyFarming]

Very interesting and informative thread.
Wasn't expecting all this but glad you took the time.

Thanks all.

 

[FinallyFarming]

The loader and how it is operated will have more influence on the tractor's stability than what style of front end is on the tractor. Keep the loader bucket low when moving, avoid turning and reduce speed when the bucket raised high.

Tongue in cheek - removing the loader will do more to improve the tractor's stability than changing the front end.

I did consider that. But after figuring how many shovels full of dirt I'd have to move by hand I decided the loader and stability are the lesser of the "two evils". ;-)