Trailer towing capacities

I'm just tryin to make sense of all this. I've got a '96 F-350 Diesel. Custom built heavy duty auto Trans ect, ect. I have a 14k flatbed gooseneck trailer. I loaded up one small tractor and one average sized one, and away I went. Got to my destination, ran the whole set up acros the scales. 19,850# total. 4100# on front axle. 5140 on rear. 10,610 on the trailer axles. Acording to the sticker on my door, My axles ratings are F:4600 R:6084 Total:9200. Owners manual says A 460 pickup(doesn't give diesel values) has a GCVWR of 18,500. So the way I see it, if my pickup weighs approx 7500# I can only tow 11000# of trailer which isn't squat(empty trailer weighs 4700). I can only haul 3 ton of hay? If that is the case, why do I have a reciever hitch rated for 15k and why do they sell GN hitches rated at 30k or more and trailers rated at 25k? Why isn' everyone with a few ton of hay or a piece of equipment or a big travel trailer getting ticketed? It just doesn't ad up. What am I missing?
I appreciate everyones viewpoint.

Ben
 
Add up your tire ratings.Load to your tire rating & you should be fine.But you do need a plate on your truck that is heavy enough for the weight you are hauling totaling the amount of your truck,trailer,& load.Good luck because your are going to get alot of feed back.
 
you can haul more than a door sticker says if you you tag is weighted right the tires are heavy enough you have a cdl, health card, and right towing set up, most important load is equaled out correctly. i had a 05 for 350 deisel with a door sticker of around 15,000 a 26,000 tag and pulling a 48ft goose neck trailer rated at 26,000. only pull 26,000 total due to tag weight. thanks ricky
 
#1, hauling 5-1/2 tons behind a p/u rate for 9200 by itslef isn't anything to sneeze at. I see folks overloading half-tons rated for far less hauling camper weighing jsut as much doing it all the time, but I give them a wide berth.

#2, I wouldn't be overly concerned about being a mere thousand over your GCWR. Though a lawyer after an accident would have a field day with you and your insurer, I don't think it would hurt the truck any.

The only numbers on your door sticker are for individual axle ratings and the GVWR (truck only, and you've already noted that GVWR will be less than the sum of the axle ratings). Nowhere there will you find the GCWR (a rating for the total of your truck and what it's pulling). The GCWR is more typically found in the owners manual or a separate publication. I'll ignite an argument by saying that the manufactureres aren't required to publish those numbers, but do so in order for customers to buy a vehicle suited to their needs. Still, a lawyer will go to town on them.

The factors in GCWR are many, IBNLT engine hp and torque, transmission, rear-end ratio, suspension and frame strength, and BRAKES!

Do a little googlin' and you can probably find the tables that will show your diesel will handle more weight than the gasser.

That said, what you don't want to get caught exceeding are the numbers on the door sticker -- the GVWR of the truck, weight ratings for either axle, the load ratings of the tires on those axles, or your hitch's rating. If you can stay within those ratings by setting up your loads so that the hitch, axles and tires on the trailer aren't overloaded either, you should be good as far as enforcement goes, provided that the balance of the load handles well.

But I capitalized BRAKES above for a reason. You can have the most gawdamighty, chipped-out, smoke-belchin', turbo-screechin' power plant imaginable with armor-and-gold plated driveline components, and a suspension to carry 8 tons. That's wonderful if that's what floats your boat. But if you did all that work so that you could get a heavy load up to speed with acceleration similar to a a peppy coupe, all the upgrades are useless if you can't stop it.

I've got a long-bed-long-cab Ram with a Cummins and single rear, big disc brakes all around. It's rated for 9900# GVWR and, with the weight of the B&W hitch frame, a full tank of fuel and my bloated carcass in the seat, it scales at a whisker under 8k. Dodge says my curb weight is 7220# and GCWR is 21,000, leaving a max trailer weight of 13,650. (They round a lot in a couple places, so the arithmetic ain't quite exact there). So if I adhere to their limits, I'm down to 12,850 in round numbers on the trailer.

With that in mind, I had my gooseneck built with 7k tandem single axles. Two thoughts in doing that. It keeps me from getting big-headed about what I can haul, and it attracts a lot less LEO attention, especially behind a p/u with single rear, even with two old tractors chained down on it.

Trailer itself scales a whisker over 5k, so I've still got almost 8k I can put on and stay within specs. My tractors are smaller Farmalls (BN and SuperC) so the only time I've pushed that limit was hauling four ton of wood pellets on pallets for my step-daughter. I had them load it with two ton centered over the trailer axles, and the other two ton centered between them and the front of the deck. Just for giggles, I scaled it on the way to her place, and everything was fine.

Still I think brakes are one of the biggest limitations on GCWR. I've got a six-speed hand-shaker and an exhaust brake on my p/u. With a maxed-out load like that (or even with the tractors on board), I'm usually wound up tight in one gear lower than I'd use breathing easy running bareback, so the exhaust brake is doing all it can. Using all the prudent driving practices that one should WRT safe following distances . . . it was an easy drive.

The only thing I'd add is to encourage you not to get hung up on the visuals, i.e., what looks like wasted deck space once you've maxed out your weight. Y'ever see a Class 8 goin' down the road with a 48' flatbed and nothing more than two coils of steel that only take up 16 feet of the available deck space? There's a reason for that.

For parting wors, I'd just say that diesel pickups when compared to the gassers of the same make and year are wonderful things. They'll out-pull their brothers. Just don't lose sight of the fact that they have their limitations.
 
The 30k 5th wheel hitches are likely used in f450 or f550 trucks, not an f350. I have a 98 1/2 ton chevy that"s only supposed to tow 4400 if you go by the numbers. Yes, I"ve towed much more but would have gotten a ticket if I"d been stopped. Same as you. It seems the newer trucks are rated much higher than the older ones, although the older ones seem to do the same amount of work just as easy. I"m sure most of it comes down to brakes/coolers etc.
 
I asked the same question of Michigan"s Department of Transportation, they told me the numbers given by the manufacturer were for warranty purposes. They told me legally the truck"s gross vehicle weight can"t be exceeded, and the trailer"s gross vehicle weight can"t be exceeded. They don"t use any other calculations.
 
I agree completly about needing a plate on the truck that is good for the combined weight amounts of truck + trailer + load, but only when the trailer is one plated for and actually run at 10 thousand and one pounds or more. That is the way it works here in PA. I am assuming other states work the same way, but I may be wrong.
 
Just don't weigh it !

The biggest limiting factor is your brakes and the amount of hills you have to go down. Drive sensable and you will see what it can and shouldn't do.
 
By federal law a truck manufactor does not have to give a GCWR on their trucks. Some do so they can give the buyer some idea of what the truck will do. That does not mean a lawyer will not have a field day with you if you take it way overboard.

Stay within your known factors and you will be OK. Front; rear; total GVWR; trailer GVWR; hitch capacity.

You can also look at it this way. If Ford (or you) puts a 20,000 lb hitch on that truck and you got a 20,000 lb GVWR trailer hooked to it you now cross into CDL land and the common guy does not want or need that.
 
just like scotty said brakes are your biggest factor a diesel will pull harder but also weighs alot more too and don't worry so much as to the rating on your door but be aware of the registration you keep with you in the truck this little piece of paper can get you nasty tickets at a scale. My 02 dodge 3500 diesel pulled across the scale on interstate in MD and was 33,000 and change they imedieatly pulled me in to inspect my registration was at 39,000 combo. there for no four thousand dollar overweight ticket you can register your truck for what ever you want to pay for(I was pulling a 53ft car hauler with 4 mini vans loaded) just a thought
 
I have a 1988 Chevy R-30 (2wd x 1 ton DRW gas sucker) which is GVW at 10k. Gooseneck of 14k capacity.

I have had 10k on the trailer deck before (this is max payload), going south *down* the Monteagle hill (on I-24 in Tennessee...those of you who repeated this adventure are likely to remember). This worked out well, just keep your speeds down when starting at the top.

My thoughts are as long as you don't exceed a) the 26k total gross, b) the trailer's GVW and c) the trucks gross axle ratings you will be fine. Sounds like you were OK except the truck was loaded fairly heavy. You could potentially haul a little more if centered on the trailer axles.

It is very important as mentioned above to have the trailer brakes wired and working and the "deadman" pull-plug working too. It is also very important to keep following distances very respectable as the truck won't stop on a dime.
 
we haul wood for a wood boiler with our 98 tahoe and 10k flatbed trailer (the trailer is rated at 10,000 pounds, but each axel is rated at 6). We have had that trailer loaded with around 15k of wood before, thats 15k plus the 2k for the trailer. front was light on the tahoe but it hauled it home without much trouble. didnt do any damage to the trailer. i think the weight limit given in either the truck or the trailer is just for safety reasons, the factorys could tell you they will haul alot more but they keep the numbers dampened for liability reasons of course.
 
"i think the weight limit given in either the truck or the trailer is just for safety reasons"

Oh, is that all???

Some of the numbers they do play a little with, I'll grant you. One example is my truck, an '03 Ram, one-ton, 4WD and Cummins, long cab, long bed with single rear. They cleverly gave it a GVWR of 9900, just to keep it under the 10k mark, where a lot of the commercial paperwork and inspection requirements kick in. The same set-up in a dually is rated for 11,200. By rights, I could run a small landscape operation without a trailer, just my truck, and not get into needin' a DOT #, for instance. The same operation with a dually would need the DOT#.

So what's the difference there? Probably just the extra capacity of the two extra tires. The other thing you'll notice if you look over the GCWR tables is that the rear-end ratio behind a given transmission makes a lot of difference.

Still the biggest design limitation is brakes. And maybe a lot of the difference between the GCWRs of my truck and one made five or ten years earlier is their tendency to put discs on the rears of the newer ones instead of drums.

And tires. Quite apart from what the tires are rated for and not directly on topic, is the condition of the tires, especially on trailers. I see a lot of "woodlot specials" around here. 7k trailers with rags for tires that first hit the ground ten years ago under a car. If you're gonna be overloading a trailer, you want to make sure you've got good tires.
 
Monteagle (eastbound) is a ant hill now that it goes down the other side of the mountain. Back before they rebuilt the road (late 80's) you use to go down on the same side the west bound goes up. Now that was a ride to remember back then because they had a sharp 90 deg curve at the bottom of the hill.
 
Interesting note about GCVWR comparisons. I have a 2004 F250SD 5.4 gas that has a GCVWR of 15K. The same exact truck (axles, transmission, and brakes) except with the 6.0 PS diesel has a GCVWR of 20K. My normal load is under 15K combined (truck under 8.8K GVWR), but I have hauled 20K combined (truck under 8.8K GCWR), always with proper trailer and brakes. My truck did have power limitations climbing hills with the 20K, but it was not unreasonable (could only top hill at 55 mph in 3rd gear). I rented comparable diesel truck with same load and hill and easily topped hill at 70 mph in overdrive! The power the diesel had was silly. So I am confused, same truck, drive line components, and brakes, 5.4 gas engine 15K GCVWR, 6.0 diesel engine 20K GCVWR. This tells me it is not all about the brakes. Regaurdless, I still try to stay within manufacturers GCVWR (and trucks and trailers GVWR) limits for liability and legal concerns. Philip.
 
This has been a really informative topic. The difference in GCRW vs engine size doesn't make any sense from a safety standpoint. If you haven't got the engine to get the thing up to speed, if anything, it would be safer. It is really a brake/ tire/suspension issue. I hadn't thought about licensing issues much. Suppose I should. Although, the licensing thing is really just a technicallity, I've been around an awful lot of truckers over the years, and (this'll light some fires)I can guarantee I'm smarter than some, if not most of em. So I should be savvy enough to figure out my limitations. Having the license is just another way for the DMV to squeeze some $$$ out of a guy. But if ya don't have it, they'll get it 10X when they catch ya overweight.

Appreciate everyones input. Keep it coming.

Ben
 
Sounds like Cabbage Hill just east of Pendleton, Or on I-80. West bound is a grade that has all kinds of warning signs posted as to the weight you have vs the speed the grade will allow.

The problem with that is it's a very nice 2lane with very little sharp curves that would require 25mph at 80k pounds so allot of truckers kick it up a couple gears to the 50mph range for about 8 miles.

Then comes the last left hand 25mph 160º hairpin corner with a 8% grade lead in.

At any time of the night/day, it's easy to see six semi's on the road shoulder with smoking brakes or tires on fire.

T_Bone
 
Since you know how much you weigh loaded, go ask the officials responsible for enforcing motor carrier laws in your state if you"re legal. If it were me, I"d take the truck and empty trailer after I made sure both could pass an inspection. All you need to do is ask. They will give you all of the requirements you will need to meet.
Wouldn"t that be better than being on the road to a show and get stopped and ticketed? If you"re overweight, they can even go so far as to require you to reduce the load before you go any farther.
 
So I am confused, same truck, drive line components, and brakes, 5.4 gas engine 15K GCVWR, 6.0 diesel engine 20K GCVWR. This tells me it is not all about the brakes.

The diesel likely has heavier "stuff" under it due to a) the additional weight of the engine itself and b) the massive torque you mentioned.

I'm not that familiar with the blue oval powertrain and driveline components but a small block gasoline engine vs. a turbo diesel is just no comparison in engine torque output. Even a big block gas vs. a turbo D just isn't fair.
 
Comparing 2004 F250SD. 5.4 gas and 4R100 4 speed auto (4R100 was used 7.3 diesel). 6.0 diesel and new 5R100 5 speed auto. Other than that, same 'stuff', transfer case, rear axle, front axle, front springs, rear springs, frame, hitch, wheels, tires, brakes, radio, etc. Philip.
 
Phil that's sounds like a case where the drivetrain is rated to handle the strain of the output of a diesel and installed behind a 5.4. The 5.4 is a strong motor for a gasser, but it can't begin to produce the numbers of a PowerStroke, 7.3 or 6.0. The limitation in that case is the motor.
 
Phil that's sounds like a case where the drivetrain is rated to handle the strain of the output of a diesel and installed behind a 5.4. The 5.4 is a strong motor for a gasser, but it can't begin to produce the numbers of a PowerStroke, 7.3 or 6.0. The limitation in that case is the motor.
 
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