Transmission fluid

[Jim Yancey]

I am really confused what kind of transmission fluid to use for my 850. One book says M-4864-A the other says SAE 80. Which one is right?

I have some general purpose warren transmission oil that seems to indicate it is good for M-4864-A,B and M-2C-41 is this also correct? Thanks all.

Jim

 

[Dean]

Jim:

Either CNH 134D or equivalent or 90W is acceptable in your transmission. Fill to the level plug near the right side footboard.

Dean

 

[Jim Yancey]

Dean,

Is this level plug on the side or on top next to the gear shift? Sorry I am new to this. Thanks for all the help.

Jim

 

[john in la]

Originally Ford used 80/90 wt oil in both the transmission and rear end and 134D in the hydraulic system on the hundred series tractors and that includes your 850.

In about 1965 Ford switched to using 134D in all 3 sumps; hyd trans and rear end. They also advised that this practice would be OK for the older tractors.

So now you have a decision to make……………
Did Ford advise this practice because the thinner oil was just as good as the 80/90 wt or did they allow this practice because it is a easy fix for seals leaking 80/90 wt into the hydraulic section and mixing with the oil in there.

I think if you ask 10 people you will get 5 that come down on each side of the fence.
Me I prefer 80/90 wt in all standard transmissions and rear ends.

The level plug for the trans is on the right side just below the foot board by where your heal would be. The fill plug is on the top by the shifter.

 

[Dean]

Jim:

The level plug is on the right side near the footboard. If memory serves, it is removable with a 9/16" wrench but it might be 5/8".

Dean

 

[Dean]

John:

The modern 134D is superior to the 1930s vintage 90W "mineral oil" in nearly all regards. Given that, I suspect that Ford changed the recommendation in order to eliminate the 90W from their parts system and thereby reduce inventory and distribution costs.

Dean

 

[john in la]

Dean
I am most likely the last person you want to discuss this topic with because I am pretty adamant on this subject and there is nothing you can say that will change my mind.

I will agree the 134 of today is better than 90w of 50 years ago but then again the 90w of today is better also.

I feel the gears and bearings in these tractors were built to tolerances with the use of 90w in mind. Add 50 years of wear on top of that and it leads me to believe 90w is still the best choice.

Now with that said if I had problems with seals leaking between compartments I would use 134 in all the sumps rather than splitting the tractor.

 

[Dean]

Fair enough, John.

We shall agree to disagree.

Dean

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Hello John in La , I couldn't agree with you more or said it better myself . Design , machine work and tolerances , bearing type all play a part in the type of lubrication used in any piece of equipment . Anyone fool enough to believe what New Holland or any Manufacturer recommends for lubrication for older equipment(except what it was designed for , when it was first designed) when they are trying to sell you NEW equipment deserves the problems it creates for them . Any oil or grease made 30 or more years ago is made today only better . I understand there is alot of guys who do not want to bother fixing pto shaft seal leaks but a seal is cheaper than a ruined ring and pinion gear . Thanks Tony

 

[Anonymous-0]

I just drained 134 out of my 640 hydraulic system because it lost all lifting power in hot weather.I have 90 GL-1 in the system now, not loss of lift power.Look at the Ford service manual on the 600 series they do not rec 134 NH did this later.

 

[Dean]

36:

GL-1 90W is not now and has never been recommended for the hydraulic system in your 640.

Dean

 

[Anonymous-0]

Read the manual.

 

[Dean]

I have done so, multiple times.

Have you?

Dean

 

[Larry NCKS]

(quoted from post at 18:11:54 10/12/09) I just drained 134 out of my 640 hydraulic system because it lost all lifting power in hot weather.I have 90 GL-1 in the system now, not loss of lift power.Look at the Ford service manual on the 600 series they do not rec 134 NH did this later.

You put that dang stuff in the hydraulics and you'll suck seals outta your pump faster 'n you can blink your eye.

 

[john in la]

Here is a page from the manual. Can you show us where it says to use GL-1 90w in the hyd system??
Thanks
John

 

[Anonymous-0]

Heres what page 421 of the Ford service manual says 9n 2n 8n Ford hydraulic system.m4864a winter m4864b summer.Naa 600 series all 700 800 900 601 701 1801 2030 4030 801 4040 fmd fpm dexta m4864a m4864b.Look up the numbers of both lubes, they are mild ep 80 and 90.This is from the Ford tractor shop manual.Copy right 1961.This info is in chart form.What you have posted looks like its from an owners manual.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Do a search on the numbers.They translate to ep 80 90 .

 

[Anonymous-0]

Go back and read the Ford shop Manual Dufus.

 

[NWMO 901 SOS]

Hey Fellas,


From this article, which appears very well written and explained, a 90W gear oil meeting GL-1 (API gear oil designation) would meet the specifications of the original 90W straight mineral oil specified for tractors prior to 1950. It goes on to discuss a number of other oils, including the M-4864 spec, Ford 134, UTF, etc.

If I am reading it correctly (and it is factual), it appears the M-4864 spec would have been an 80W or 90W oil with some additional additives for extreme pressure equivalent to GL-3 (API gear oil designation).

It goes on to dicuss Ford 134 and approximates it spec equivalents (based on viscosity) to a 40W or 50W oil.

It further states, a true hydraulic oil used only for hydruaulics would likely be as little as a 10W or 20W assuming the system was in good shape.


http://www.n-tractorclub.com/howtos/trannyfluid.htm

Of course, you have to remove the hyphen in the provided URL address.

Chris

 

[Anonymous-0]

I did a web search by typing in ford m4864 lubricant. Mike Porters post said that many tractor owners found that they lost lift power when the tractors warmed up when they used Hy Tran fluid..Thats what happened to my 640 with the 134 fluid in place.

 

[RodinNS]

I think most owners of those tractors found that they lost power lift if they used anythign heavier than hy-tran. We had to run Dexron in our 860 for years because that was the only thing that would get it alive in the morning. UNder heavy, steady use the light oil never bothered it.
I simply can't imagine ever using an 80 weight oil in that hydraulic system whether the book suggests it or not. It's just a recipe for trouble.

Rod

 

[NWMO 901 SOS]

(quoted from post at 06:07:47 10/14/09) I think most owners of those tractors found that they lost power lift if they used anythign heavier than hy-tran. We had to run Dexron in our 860 for years because that was the only thing that would get it alive in the morning. UNder heavy, steady use the light oil never bothered it.
I simply can't imagine ever using an 80 weight oil in that hydraulic system whether the book suggests it or not. It's just a recipe for trouble.

Rod

Rod,

Mike appears to be a contributor like many on this subject, sharing his experiences and opinion. In his experience, he found some owners of the older Ford tractors (he doesn't distinguish models, etc.) that lost hydrualic function when using the Hy-trans oil that the local New Holland dealership was recommending. In those situations, he indicates, the older 90W oil preformed better.

mike porter wrote on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 (PDT):
carquest parts stores sell ep-90 in various container sizes up to 5 gallon cans. that is the designation for ford-ferguson 9n-2n, 8n and ferguson to20-to30 tractors. works the best. i worked at a new holland store for 2 years, and several guys were sold hy-trans to replace the trans. oil, and they came back complaining that when the tractor warmed up, the hyds. quit working. tsc sells the ep90, and i found out carquest also sells ep90, and it looks more like hyd. oil the fords and fergusons had in them. it's called carquest bravo oil, ep90gl4, part# 990-05.

I wonder how much of this is being caused by [u:b1aed821d0][color=red:b1aed821d0]leaky[/color:b1aed821d0][/u:b1aed821d0] systems that do better with the heavier oil. The thinner oil may not work when the system leaks too much, whereas the 90W is heavy enough to mask the real problem?

Personally, I use a 134 equivalent in my 971. While it will leak down after the tractor is off, it performs very well hot or cold, any time of the year while the tractor is running.

Chris

 

[Larry NCKS]

All I know, fellas, is this:

Years ago Dad had an 850 with a 701 loader on it. We kept having to overhaul the pump until we drained the heavy oil and put Archer Unifluid, which meets or exceeds the 134D spec, in the system. That solved our problems.

I've used Archer Unifluid in the hydraulics of everything I own since. The last time I overhauled a pump - [b:68bf61aaa0]it wasn't mine[/b:68bf61aaa0]! I use this 134 equivalent in all hydraulics in my prior thousands, in my SOSes, in my IH hydros, in my Genesis powershifts, etc. It has never caused me one moment's grief in any of these apps.

On the other hand, I'm with the crew that still wants the 4864 in my crash boxes and rear ends where the sumps are separate and the manual calls for it.