Trouble engine swap

[Robin Hood]

Good morning. I know some of you have swapped out the troybilt horse engines (tecumseh) with Harbor Freight engines. Any specific model number you might know and how clean of a swap is it? Any fabrication?
Thank you for your input.

 

[Butch(OH)]

It depends on which Horse you have. The 2-speed that drives with two equal size belts has an odd length crankshaft and you will need to have some custom spacers for the pulley and reverse disk or you can not have reverse. The 4 speed that drives with 1 belt and has unequal size pulleys is more or a less bolt in swap. The econo horse uses an odd ball engine with two shafts and one belt for forward and another belt for reverse. No current engine will fit these and have reverse however many engines fit that will give you forward only. The most common engine is the 212 CC 6.5 HP. The throttle cable will be too short but can be eliminated if you wish and the low oil shut down must be disconnected due to the angle the engine operates. For sane reason be certain it is kept completely full of oil. If the process confuses you go the The Small Engine Warehouse website. Punch in your equipment and then replacement engines and a list will be provided.

 

[Don B.]

Just say no to the predator
It does seem like all the original hh60's are all dying around the same time . Lots of talk on all the forums about this. If I could find a 10-over piston and rings I have 2 here that I would overhaul. Both run but are tired

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Just say no to the predator
It does seem like all the original hh60's are all dying around the same time . Lots of talk on all the forums about this. If I could find a 10-over piston and rings I have 2 here that I would overhaul. Both run but are tired

Why? They're good engines.

A "10-over piston" does you no good unless you take the block to a machine shop to be bored out. Good luck finding a machine shop to do it these days.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Just say no to the predator
It does seem like all the original hh60's are all dying around the same time . Lots of talk on all the forums about this. If I could find a 10-over piston and rings I have 2 here that I would overhaul. Both run but are tired

DonB I don't disagree but I answered the question he asked. One of my side gigs is buying discarded Horse tillers and rehabbing them. A fellow had a run of HH60 kits made a few years ago but all were standard piston. I used a few of them because I have a complete machine shop to do it right. The HH60 was a very good engine but by the time a person pays to have one properly rebuilt with NOS parts he can buy 2 or 3 HF engines, nobody wants to stick that kind of money in them. Even if a person can do his own machine work and rebuild it himself the parts cost more than an HF engine. My father in law bought a new horse in 1982 and asked me which engine to get and I told him THE KOHLER! I have it now, engine never been touched but will be over the winter.

 

[Don B.]

Why? They're good engines.

A "10-over piston" does you no good unless you take the block to a machine shop to be bored out. Good luck finding a machine shop to do it these days.

Yeah I know that. I have a couple of machine shops around still.

 

[Don B.]

I have recently gotten 2 low hour Tecumseh's an 8 off a power washer and an 11 off a snowblower, both low hour machines for way less than even 1 predator would cost. One of them will be going on my horse. My original thought was to pull the crank from a Kohler 301 that I happen to have sitting here and having that turned down.

 

[JWA]

Good morning. I know some of you have swapped out the troybilt horse engines (tecumseh) with Harbor Freight engines. Any specific model number you might know and how clean of a swap is it? Any fabrication?
Thank you for your input.

I installed a 6 1/2 HP predator engine on mine, no modifications required and very pleased with the performance. There are numerous u-tube videos on this swap.

 

[Watthour]

Hold out for a Kohler. I've had two of them, and the worst I've had to do is hone and re-ring.

 

[Watthour]

Of course, that's just the engine. The gear case is a different matter. Both needed axle shaft bearings, and one needed a worm and wheel. Oddly, it is easy to reassemble incorrectly so that the shift lever operates the machine backward. Ask me how I know...

 

[Fritz Maurer]

DonB I don't disagree but I answered the question he asked. One of my side gigs is buying discarded Horse tillers and rehabbing them. A fellow had a run of HH60 kits made a few years ago but all were standard piston. I used a few of them because I have a complete machine shop to do it right. The HH60 was a very good engine but by the time a person pays to have one properly rebuilt with NOS parts he can buy 2 or 3 HF engines, nobody wants to stick that kind of money in them. Even if a person can do his own machine work and rebuild it himself the parts cost more than an HF engine. My father in law bought a new horse in 1982 and asked me which engine to get and I told him THE KOHLER! I have it now, engine never been touched but will be over the winter.

How much does a predator engine cost? I want to see how much you’re paying to overhaul a 6hp Tecumseh.

 

[Don B.]

I've never had to go inside a TB gearcase yet. But out swapped out engines on 3 of them over about the last 20 years.
I actually have a Kohler here (k301 12hp) that I seriously considered retrofitting to mine "because I have It" before I came up with a twin to the original engine that was good enough to get my current job done, I'm out of the bind now, and now I have 2 other, low hour, more direct bolt on options than that 12hp would have been/ though now I'm out of my bind to get the job done that I got this tiller for to begin with I have time to put whatever I want to on that thing.
Funny how when you need something it isn't there but once you find it more of whatever it was you needed starts multiplying like rabbits.

 

[Don B.]

I'm just so sick and freaking tired of us being pretty much owned by China of late when it comes to manufactured "goods" (of which many aren't very good) and it's getting harder to avoid but avoid it I will whenever possible.
By combining 2 broken units into one good unit that counts as recycling right? Isn't the first phase of that, to use up what you have and get the goody out of it? Rather than just "throw it away and get another"?. As long as I can get Briggs Tecumseh and Kohler parts I won't be buying any predators. I won't have a Toyota or Honduh or Kia for the same reason. Even if for free. Til it's mandatory and I can't get anything else. I don't mind having 20+ year old well maintained stuff. My most recent vehicle purchase was an 03....last November .
And that was newer than I really wanted.

 

[timcasbolt]

How much does a predator engine cost? I want to see how much you’re paying to overhaul a 6hp Tecumseh.

Buck fifty. But I've seen them as low as $99.95 with a coupon.

 

[Don B.]

And hey Butch
Where do you find Troy bilts for a good enough price to do what you do with them? Around here they still sell high even with issues.
My current machine has great bones, and will be great once again once it gets the "more power" infusion, with the engine transplant/ it don't leak, it goes in/out of gear just fine, and digs like crazy even if it's current engine is tired.
but I do sometimes wish I'd have gone another hour up the road when I got this one, and gotten the one that already has a newer 8hp and comes with an extra (new) set of tines for less difference to what I had to pay, than the extra set of tines would cost. That's alright though, I will have an equal or better machine to that one once I'm finished with the engine swap.

 

[Don B.]

The first TB I did got a craigslist sourced new style 6hp slant cylinder Tecumseh, but I just got that one where I wanted it to be and it got stolen out of my shed.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Buck fifty. But I've seen them as low as $99.95 with a coupon.

So he’s paying 450.00 to major a HH60. Sounds like this belongs in Tractor Tales.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I've never had to go inside a TB gearcase yet. But out swapped out engines on 3 of them over about the last 20 years.
I actually have a Kohler here (k301 12hp) that I seriously considered retrofitting to mine "because I have It" before I came up with a twin to the original engine that was good enough to get my current job done, I'm out of the bind now, and now I have 2 other, low hour, more direct bolt on options than that 12hp would have been/ though now I'm out of my bind to get the job done that I got this tiller for to begin with I have time to put whatever I want to on that thing.
Funny how when you need something it isn't there but once you find it more of whatever it was you needed starts multiplying like rabbits.

A K301, huh… better plan on a weight bar to keep the rear end down

 

[Butch(OH)]

How much does a predator engine cost? I want to see how much you’re paying to overhaul a 6hp Tecumseh.

Predator engine on sale $100
Here is an estimated breakdown.
NOS piston $25-50 IF you can find one.
NOS gasket set IF you can find one $25-30
New carburetor or kit for old one same price $25
Ring set $15
No Oversize pistons available, Bore block for sleeve, supply sleeve and fit to piston.
Valve and seat GRIND, not worthless lap job, and set tappet clearance. Mill head flat, all are warped. $200 labor $50 parts
Points, condensor $20 or so.
No undersized rods so clearance is corrected via resizing the rod and welding the crankshaft and regriinding. Another $100
No, it is not hard at all to out 3 or 4 times the price of a Predator in overhauling an HH60 ,, when done right. Now if you want to call slapping a set of rings in it and lapping the valves rebuilt then you use that word differently than I do. Listed is worse case scenario. Best case is rings, valve grind, head mill, gasket set, carb rebuild. With parts and labor It's still 2x what a predator costs.

No, I don't work on engines for my health, but neither am I getting wealthy at it. As I said a person not doing his own work is far better off not paying someone to rebuild his engine

 

[Butch(OH)]

And hey Butch
Where do you find Troy bilts for a good enough price to do what you do with them? Around here they still sell high even with issues.
My current machine has great bones, and will be great once again once it gets the "more power" infusion, with the engine transplant/ it don't leak, it goes in/out of gear just fine, and digs like crazy even if it's current engine is tired.
but I do sometimes wish I'd have gone another hour up the road when I got this one, and gotten the one that already has a newer 8hp and comes with an extra (new) set of tines for less difference to what I had to pay, than the extra set of tines would cost. That's alright though, I will have an equal or better machine to that one once I'm finished with the engine swap.

DonB I have several searches saved on Marketplace with the several ways people advertise them. When one is listed I get an alert. I am paying $50- $150 for non running Horse tillers in theboff season, fall and Winter. I don't buy many in the spring.
Also since I've been doing this a while people bring them here when hard up for money. I don't buy tillers with bad tiller boxes, too much money to fix. About half don't need anything more than a carburetor, and a plug. If they are oil burners I take the engine down and if the bore or crank is not worn I rebuild them, otherwise they go in the junk pile and replaced with a briggs or Honda clone. Every now and then sone old timer will require his HH60 gets rebuilt. Every tiller gets new tine shaft seals and bearings. It's been a pretty good gig for the last 15 years, LOL