baldwin racing
Member
gary look at www.acechassis.com then look at the antique tractors they did a gvi hitch and wheelie bar set up...to give you a good ideas.
kelly
kelly
I have 1 question on the hitch setup....all places I have ever pulled at say 20" max drawbar height, meaning that is the max. of where your pulling "down pressure" would be from. Seeing this hitch and many others appears that the actual pull is from where the top of the turn-buckle is...maybe like 30 plus inches. In our club we allowed no 3rd links or anything like it. Top of hooking pt. was 20" and then it had to me mounted under rear end or you didn't pull. Anyone else see it this way? I know NATPA allows these hitches and can't understand why....
You need to explain alittle common sense to your "club" if you cant have the adjustable upper link because even if you have NO upper link the down-force is equal unless your nonadjustable draw bar folds down when its loaded. If the hook point remains at 20 inches when loaded, there is the same force.
It's just plain stupid and dangerous to have a hitch setup like that. When it's hooked yes the forces are at 20" or wherever it's set. Leverage is the same, no matter how it's set up.
What happens when the pin breaks, the drawbar breaks or something comes loose? The hitch pulls back and all the sudden your leverage point is up there at 30" or wherever the top of the 3rd link is hooked. Over backwards in a hurry. This is why 3rd links are not allowed in many places and should never be allowed. It's not that it doesn't work, but it's what happens when there is another failure.
Hitch points need to be supported from the bottom. There should never be an exposed cross bar or anything above the hitch that someone can mistakenly drop a hook in......it's happened and wrecked a few tractors.
What happens when the pin breaks, the drawbar breaks or something comes loose? The hitch pulls back and all the sudden your leverage point is up there at 30" or wherever the top of the 3rd link is hooked. Over backwards in a hurry. This is why 3rd links are not allowed in many places and should never be allowed. It's not that it doesn't work, but it's what happens when there is another failure.
Hitch points need to be supported from the bottom. There should never be an exposed cross bar or anything above the hitch that someone can mistakenly drop a hook in......it's happened and wrecked a few tractors.
north puller
Member
If your pin or draw bar is going to break, you need to build a better hitch. If you add additional support to your drawbar (as in a top link), there is less chance of failure.
Build it right and there won't be a problem.
Build it right and there won't be a problem.
What happens to that setup when the pin falls out? Now maybe it can't fall out but someone who wants to do you harm can take it out. Is the pin in upside down with the clip on top? Some are this way because of clearance issues, what happens when someone throws the chain across and it catches the clip?
How about someone unknowing? I've got a 3yr old that loves to play with pins, he's hid every drawpin on the farm, he pulls pins and clips out of things sitting in the yard or the shed. Until he outgrows it and/or learns otherwise, you look at every pin and clip when leaving the yard with equipment. If he's been playing near the trailer, you just go put the clips back in the ramps, they'll be laying there.
The point of my argument is that you don't have to break anything for that system to cause someone harm it can be purely accidental, or it could be someone playing a dirty trick. If anything does break, there's a high potential for catastrophe.
That drawbar may be well built but it is poorly engineered. There is clearly room to simply support it from the bottom with some adjuster bolts and one on top to hold it solid. Leave the 3rd links on the shelf at Tractor Supply. It may not break but it CAN break, the pin can break, the pin could wind up missing. What would happen with the same type of failure if the drawbar was supported from the bottom? It would simply pull out the back of the tractor.
Professional tractor pulling associations will require a drawbar supported from the bottom, there are no tip links allowed. If I had a drawbar like that I would not be allowed past tech inspection.
How about someone unknowing? I've got a 3yr old that loves to play with pins, he's hid every drawpin on the farm, he pulls pins and clips out of things sitting in the yard or the shed. Until he outgrows it and/or learns otherwise, you look at every pin and clip when leaving the yard with equipment. If he's been playing near the trailer, you just go put the clips back in the ramps, they'll be laying there.
The point of my argument is that you don't have to break anything for that system to cause someone harm it can be purely accidental, or it could be someone playing a dirty trick. If anything does break, there's a high potential for catastrophe.
That drawbar may be well built but it is poorly engineered. There is clearly room to simply support it from the bottom with some adjuster bolts and one on top to hold it solid. Leave the 3rd links on the shelf at Tractor Supply. It may not break but it CAN break, the pin can break, the pin could wind up missing. What would happen with the same type of failure if the drawbar was supported from the bottom? It would simply pull out the back of the tractor.
Professional tractor pulling associations will require a drawbar supported from the bottom, there are no tip links allowed. If I had a drawbar like that I would not be allowed past tech inspection.
Ron Brokaw
Member
When you think you are helping other pullers to a good design and a simple, safe, easy and quick way to do something you get the armchair engineers
(that show their ignorance)want to destroy your well engineered idea. I have used this system for years. How many times have you sat at the scales (camping)waiting for tractors adjusting hitches with bolts, washers, ect. If wi50 don't like it I would recommend replacing clips with bolts with lock nuts. Keep the top-link below center line of axle. Very nice!!
(that show their ignorance)want to destroy your well engineered idea. I have used this system for years. How many times have you sat at the scales (camping)waiting for tractors adjusting hitches with bolts, washers, ect. If wi50 don't like it I would recommend replacing clips with bolts with lock nuts. Keep the top-link below center line of axle. Very nice!!
So am I being called an ignorant armchair engineer here or what?
I pull, I built this pictured hitch. It's designed to be as safe, strong and light as possiable for the given restrictions of the chassis. I'm the one sitting in the seat some nights and I want to stay upright, concious and alive as well as the other drivers. More so I want the track officials, track crew and spectators to not have any horror stories.
If I had a top link the tech inspectors would tell me to load up no matter if it were bolted or pinned, welded pins and otherwise impossiable to fall apart. The simple physics of the top link system lend it to be a dangerous setup no matter how fast you're trying to go. More so on an antique tractor with the tires hooked in.
I realize that not everyone here is trying to run a 3000hp tractor but think about the physics involved in the parts you are building, design them well and take lessons from others. Calling someone an ignorant armchair engineer to back up your love for a top link is no excuse for your own lack of comprehension of the physics involved. Think how simply supporting that drawbar from the bottom would make it a perfect setup, and as safe as possiable.
I pull, I built this pictured hitch. It's designed to be as safe, strong and light as possiable for the given restrictions of the chassis. I'm the one sitting in the seat some nights and I want to stay upright, concious and alive as well as the other drivers. More so I want the track officials, track crew and spectators to not have any horror stories.
If I had a top link the tech inspectors would tell me to load up no matter if it were bolted or pinned, welded pins and otherwise impossiable to fall apart. The simple physics of the top link system lend it to be a dangerous setup no matter how fast you're trying to go. More so on an antique tractor with the tires hooked in.
I realize that not everyone here is trying to run a 3000hp tractor but think about the physics involved in the parts you are building, design them well and take lessons from others. Calling someone an ignorant armchair engineer to back up your love for a top link is no excuse for your own lack of comprehension of the physics involved. Think how simply supporting that drawbar from the bottom would make it a perfect setup, and as safe as possiable.
Going to Blow
Member
The only pin that would cause a problem if it came out is the one securing the front end of the drawbar to the tractor chassis. If either of the two pins attaching the adjuster came out the drawbar would drop lower usually ending the pull (safely) in short order.
BTW - I like the hitch setup in your picture. It would be safer. Are tie bars and front end skid bars required in the class you pull in?
BTW - I like the hitch setup in your picture. It would be safer. Are tie bars and front end skid bars required in the class you pull in?
The next tip from this ignorant armchair engineer is to leave your support under the drawbar open, meaning don't use a cross bar or support crossing underneath. That big hook that they drop in from the sled needs clearance to come around under your loop. If there is a cross bar and it's to high, the hook can catch it, not pass though and become wedged at an angle, all the sudden your 20" drawbar is more like a 16" drawbar.
If at all possible support the hitch from behind the hooking point and leave the center open for the hook to swing through.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
wi needs to go back to allis forum with his case tractor . he is a genuis over there. lol
Welll pankey if you want to come on here and be a smart jazz then tell everyone how and why they banned you from the allis forum, blocked your work ip adress and why you have to hide behind other names and IP addresses......or why the members crack down on you and run you off.
If you guys want another exaple of what not to do, here's a picture from mlpankey of his setup. Notice how the top link is well above the axial centerline.
It's another example of how a little common sense and basic understanding of physics could help someone build a safe setup (or pankeys case a running engine and a decent hitch).
If you guys want another exaple of what not to do, here's a picture from mlpankey of his setup. Notice how the top link is well above the axial centerline.
It's another example of how a little common sense and basic understanding of physics could help someone build a safe setup (or pankeys case a running engine and a decent hitch).
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
good picture to bad it isnt yours. Wi says he is a expert in cylinder head air flow . Runs a purchased from indy cylinder head and has to force air in with chargers.my type of guy lol
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Hmmmmm. Wi takes something good and makes it better... Mitch Pankey takes something he bought, passed it off as his own, and then blows it up....one guy pulls an outlaw wc AND a lss, aaaaaaand the other pulls his pankey..
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
We might ask Ron if he is such an expert, why did he cut so much out of his wheels that they collapsed on the track in Columbia, Mo. a few yrs. ago? Or made such an a%% of himself in Michigan he was told to hit the road and not come back?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Andy the wc your refering to has set in a barn with a forsale sign on it for how many years? If you are so impressed with your new friends work why are you letting it set forsale and not purchased it like you did the h farmall when you were hanging out and so impressed with another builders work . its a far enough question
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Marty, All I am going to say is that you are wasting your time trying to make sense with half of the jokers on here. I make my hitches similar to your idea and don't use turnbuckles. And to you Mitch why do you come on here all of the time to pick fights? Why don't you go to a sanctioned pull and shoot your mouth off in person? My bet is that you would go home with a fat lip. Everybody is tired of your crap.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
dboll i hope to meet you one day
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Marty"s WC? It was pulling last year. It sat in the barn for years. But I"ll tell all of you a story...
That outlaw tractor with a big carb and custom cam manifold ing and everything else didnt fail to start at 3 am on a -4 degree Wisconsin Saturday night in December after not being started since probably 3 mos earlier. No spray or pulling. It was a good fun night from what I can remember of it. !
As far as my H was concerned, I just wasn"t interested on putting it back together. Built another motor for it @ 3.81x5.25 and then sold it. The chassis owed me nothing but got in the way of my barn. There isn"t an h around let alone an Allis that has been able to keep up with Justin"s H. But with it being the baddest on the block, I needed to look at another brand.
That outlaw tractor with a big carb and custom cam manifold ing and everything else didnt fail to start at 3 am on a -4 degree Wisconsin Saturday night in December after not being started since probably 3 mos earlier. No spray or pulling. It was a good fun night from what I can remember of it. !
As far as my H was concerned, I just wasn"t interested on putting it back together. Built another motor for it @ 3.81x5.25 and then sold it. The chassis owed me nothing but got in the way of my barn. There isn"t an h around let alone an Allis that has been able to keep up with Justin"s H. But with it being the baddest on the block, I needed to look at another brand.
Ron Brokaw
Member
My name is Ron Brokaw. "Just Wondering" (THE COWARD)
used a Hollywood name needs to own up and use your name. You saw a chance to stick a knife in me for some reason, must have whipped your butt on the track a bunch of times. Set the facts straight. I did make a set of wheels that collapsed in MO. and super nice competitor (it sure was not you)loaned his tires and rims so I could still compete. Michigan pull you are wrong. Two other people were the guilty ones and taken out on me. I have never in all my life (ever)been spoken to as that day. Was told I could leave if I didn't like. Before I was able to load to leave another puller begged me to stay. Before I left to return home was asked to stay and a apology was made and I accepted and I chose to never to return. Was never told not to come back. These are the facts since you brought (Just Wondering) it up and I did not want to tell about a very regretful incident.
used a Hollywood name needs to own up and use your name. You saw a chance to stick a knife in me for some reason, must have whipped your butt on the track a bunch of times. Set the facts straight. I did make a set of wheels that collapsed in MO. and super nice competitor (it sure was not you)loaned his tires and rims so I could still compete. Michigan pull you are wrong. Two other people were the guilty ones and taken out on me. I have never in all my life (ever)been spoken to as that day. Was told I could leave if I didn't like. Before I was able to load to leave another puller begged me to stay. Before I left to return home was asked to stay and a apology was made and I accepted and I chose to never to return. Was never told not to come back. These are the facts since you brought (Just Wondering) it up and I did not want to tell about a very regretful incident.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Andy I recall a phone conversation with you that you were done with allis going to a get baker to build you a farmall h . That was around the time you were head posting cheerleader for bakers shop. What happened . You quit cheering went back to ac and started cheering for wi . looks like a pattern to me . oh then they was the moline spell with Ethan in between.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
We'll Mitch, you recall more about a conversation talking to me than I recall talking to you.
Gary's niche is IH. And , he's about as good a guy as one can find. Kinda like Wi50, in the Allis world. At one point I was going to have Gary build a short block for me. It would be right, and I would be confident in it. Like I had said...I got more interested in the AC, and the H just began to get underfoot.
I like a little of every color but JD. That's your niche now, right? I've still got a nice 5 star chassis built up. I decided to build a good speed limit motor for it. I might finish it this winter.
Weren't you busy building a big motor?
Gary's niche is IH. And , he's about as good a guy as one can find. Kinda like Wi50, in the Allis world. At one point I was going to have Gary build a short block for me. It would be right, and I would be confident in it. Like I had said...I got more interested in the AC, and the H just began to get underfoot.
I like a little of every color but JD. That's your niche now, right? I've still got a nice 5 star chassis built up. I decided to build a good speed limit motor for it. I might finish it this winter.
Weren't you busy building a big motor?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
yes Chris"s engine is going together nicely which also proves you aggravate calling me most of the time .Monroes H i believe came after your cheerleading ethan to baker to henderson then to wi may have baker and henderson reversed. Really never listen that intently when you call.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
It had better be going together nicely. You're taking long enough. I really honestly think I only talked to you one or twice, and the second time you wanted parts from me. That much I do recall.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I remember you calling pumping me up about how I need to buy that 6.5 crank from under your bed because as you said quote I was the only builder that could figure out how to make it work. So I offered you like 500 for it to aggravate you to get you to quit calling . It gave you a rash like a cheerleader under the grandstand
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