Unavoidable biodiesel - additive options?

[virto]

Living in the midwest, states have been running incentives to replace all petro-diesel options with bio-diesel - Iowa, Illinois, Missouri and possibly others are all producers of bio-diesel and have either started or completely phased out petro-diesel options.

I can probably still manage to get red dyed off-road diesel in MO, but I don't think there's any way whatsoever to verify if there is any bio-content or not.

I've just had my rotary injection pump rebuilt because biofuel had gummed the pistons so badly they needed to be punched out. The tolerances in the design mean it can and will happen again if it's not run constantly - and frankly, the tractor gets used when it's needed - they often sit around for months at a time.

Anyone else that's literally stuck with biofuel - what have you been using or would you suggest to keep things working as they should?

 

[wp6529]

Stanadyne Performance Formula or similar, 1D Perhaps?

 

[Tx Jim]

I think if fuel conditioner didn't contain a biocide then I'd add some biocide to the fuel tank.

 

[rmcky]

Biocide, mix as instructed on bottle, plus 2 cycle oil , at a 1 to 200 mix is what I use. Two cycle oil adds lubrication and is designed to be burned in an engine.

 

[MSD]

Biocide, mix as instructed on bottle, plus 2 cycle oil , at a 1 to 200 mix is what I use. Two cycle oil adds lubrication and is designed to be burned in an engine.

Bio diesel is supposed to be a good source of lubrucation for the newer diesel fuels. I've run it in my 2002 Dodge cummins for years with no problems except you want to stay away from it in the cold weatherwas it gels up easy.

 

[virto]

Bio diesel is supposed to be a good source of lubrucation for the newer diesel fuels. I've run it in my 2002 Dodge cummins for years with no problems except you want to stay away from it in the cold weatherwas it gels up easy.

My concern is that, like ethanol in modern gas, the veggie oils in BD seem to really wreak havoc with injection pumps and injectors that were never meant to use it.

 

[Brendon-KS]

Most all diesel fuel in the US contains at least a some biodiesel as it is replaces the lubricity lost in the process to remove the sulfer. It can actually be up to B5 (5% bio) and still be labeled as just "diesel fuel" so don't assume that just because the pump isn't labeled as biodiesel that you are getting 100% pure dino-diesel. This applied to both highway and dyed off-road fuels as both have the same regulation regarding sulfer content.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

My concern is that, like ethanol in modern gas, the veggie oils in BD seem to really wreak havoc with injection pumps and injectors that were never meant to use it.

They didn't just dump a giant barrel of Wesson cooking oil into the diesel supply. It's not "veggie oil." Biodiesel is processed to remove the glycerin that gums up the works on systems not designed to run straight vegetable oil, aka just about every diesel engine on the road and in the field.

Biodiesel in the blend is GOOD. It has great lubricity that isn't based on "evil" sulfur. Lubricity additives are redundant.

There's no way they're selling 100% biodiesel. What's the blend you can buy?

 

[Aaron SEIA]

I bet you've been burning a bio blend for a long time and didn't know it. The dyed fuel is 100% identical to road taxed only with the dye added. Pump the diesel, burn, repeat.
AaronSEIA

 

[JohnRowehl]

My 2018 RAM 2500 manual says bio-diesel capable up to 5% unless configured with optional B20 capability. Bought it used last year. Haven’t checked out if it has that option. (Don’t ask me why). Until then I am not going to used the “up to 15%” pumps. I am guessing that the lower the price of diesel, the more biodiesel is in it, thinking that component is less expensive.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

They didn't just dump a giant barrel of Wesson cooking oil into the diesel supply. It's not "veggie oil." Biodiesel is processed to remove the glycerin that gums up the works on systems not designed to run straight vegetable oil, aka just about every diesel engine on the road and in the field.

Biodiesel in the blend is GOOD. It has great lubricity that isn't based on "evil" sulfur. Lubricity additives are redundant.

There's no way they're selling 100% biodiesel. What's the blend you can buy?

Yep b20 is about as high as it gets and b10 is more than enough for me. When we were in school the soybean association sent a biodiesel guy that came to talk to us was much higher on ethanol than biodiesel. Biodiesel solves a lubricity problem but in super cold weather it is not your friend. You do not want b100 although you CAN COOK WITH IT. He said if you want to clean yourself out drink a glass before they add anything. It’s not like the ethanol plant where people get fired for being drunk on the job and taking the risk with the methanol nobody’s hiding out by the column with the the oil.

 

[DanielW]

What the OP's referring to is the 'diesel bug', bacteria that are often found in modern diesel that (when left sitting) feast on the hydrocarbons in diesel and produce a slimy, tar-like sludge that wreaks having with all aspects of the diesel system. Not strictly a problem with the biodiesel itself, which burns just fine if fresh and regularly filled. It's rather that the old-school diesels with higher sulphur content and less water-absorbing ability didn't allow the bacteria to flourish nearly as readily. It was always a problem for marine diesels and others in wet/humid environments, it's now just more of a problem for more conventional environments.

Snake oil additives like the Lucas/Standadyne won't do anything to help prevent it - you need a biocide. The most popular is 'Biobor JF', which has been available for decades at marinas, but which you now see more and more at places like TSC and tractor dealerships, because this problem is getting more and more common. If anyone hasn't seen this problem, they're probably quite lucky and it's only a matter of time - especially if you have diesels that sit for extended periods. I've had this problem in a few tractors now, and it's one holy heck of a nightmare to clean out the gunk that bacteria leaves behind. Luckily it hadn't made its way to the injection pump on any of mine. It usually starts in the tank where there's more air and water presence, and works its way through the fuel system from there.

If it's a regularly-used tractor or diesel storage tank that gets filled frequently, you probably don't have to worry about anything. But if you have diesel in a tractor or storage tank that sits for a few months, adding a dose of biocide is becoming increasingly necessary.

 

[RJKeith]

Living in the midwest, states have been running incentives to replace all petro-diesel options with bio-diesel - Iowa, Illinois, Missouri and possibly others are all producers of bio-diesel and have either started or completely phased out petro-diesel options.

I can probably still manage to get red dyed off-road diesel in MO, but I don't think there's any way whatsoever to verify if there is any bio-content or not.

I've just had my rotary injection pump rebuilt because biofuel had gummed the pistons so badly they needed to be punched out. The tolerances in the design mean it can and will happen again if it's not run constantly - and frankly, the tractor gets used when it's needed - they often sit around for months at a time.

Anyone else that's literally stuck with biofuel - what have you been using or would you suggest to keep things working as they should?

In 2008 I was working on a "green building" project and one of the proposals I had to research was bio-diesel for the emergency generator. One problem I remember was that bio-diesel was a very effective solvent, meaning in a diesel that had been using traditional fuel all the gummy deposits in the fuel system would dissolve and clog filters and injectors. Don't know if they have fixed that in the last 15 years, just be aware.

 

[paul]

In 2008 I was working on a "green building" project and one of the proposals I had to research was bio-diesel for the emergency generator. One problem I remember was that bio-diesel was a very effective solvent, meaning in a diesel that had been using traditional fuel all the gummy deposits in the fuel system would dissolve and clog filters and injectors. Don't know if they have fixed that in the last 15 years, just be aware.

If this is the “problem” it would seem regular diesel is creating it, and bio diesel is solving the problem? All the crud plugging things up came from the regular diesel?

Paul

 

[RJKeith]

If this is the “problem” it would seem regular diesel is creating it, and bio diesel is solving the problem? All the crud plugging things up came from the regular diesel?

Paul

Sort off. The "crud" didn't clog things up until the biodiesel dissolved it though. The intent of the article was if you are looking to use a high percentage bio-diesel fuel, do it with a new engine. If you have an older diesel like many on this board do, then stick to a mostly petroleum product.

 

[Watthour]

That phenomenon is not unlike the solvent power of ethanol cleaning out deposits left from gasoline additives (although methanol does it even more aggressively). Of course, people seem to blame the ethanol for the mess that it is actually cleaning out.

 

[paul]

Sort off. The "crud" didn't clog things up until the biodiesel dissolved it though. The intent of the article was if you are looking to use a high percentage bio-diesel fuel, do it with a new engine. If you have an older diesel like many on this board do, then stick to a mostly petroleum product.

Minnesota has had 2% to 20% biodiesel for quite a few years now. It’s a pretty good deal works good.

Only issue has been the year I got hurt in September and had my tractors topped off with 20% bio. Naturally with the cold winters of Minnesota I had some gelling issues as I didn’t get blended back down to the 5% of winter fuel when I got back to running them a month later. My fault for not being prepared properly for the season.

my 1970s and 80s and 90s old tractors run just fine on the stuff. I’m happy to have a cleaner fuel system in them.

One of the benefits is the added lubricity so you don’t need any additives. So unsure of the original question I guess? I’ve not used anything in summer, obviously I switch to winter diesel or a proper amount of Power Service in the winter months.

 

[Scott 730]

Minnesota has had 2% to 20% biodiesel for quite a few years now. It’s a pretty good deal works good.

Only issue has been the year I got hurt in September and had my tractors topped off with 20% bio. Naturally with the cold winters of Minnesota I had some gelling issues as I didn’t get blended back down to the 5% of winter fuel when I got back to running them a month later. My fault for not being prepared properly for the season.

my 1970s and 80s and 90s old tractors run just fine on the stuff. I’m happy to have a cleaner fuel system in them.

One of the benefits is the added lubricity so you don’t need any additives. So unsure of the original question I guess? I’ve not used anything in summer, obviously I switch to winter diesel or a proper amount of Power Service in the winter months.

As a STO without a large need for fuel, I buy all of my fuel between October and March. That way I always have 5% bio blend in my tanks. Buy the fuel for winter use in Oct-Nov. Buy fuel for summer use before April. Never again do I want to be caught with 20% going into winter.

 

[1948CaseVAI]

Living in the midwest, states have been running incentives to replace all petro-diesel options with bio-diesel - Iowa, Illinois, Missouri and possibly others are all producers of bio-diesel and have either started or completely phased out petro-diesel options.

I can probably still manage to get red dyed off-road diesel in MO, but I don't think there's any way whatsoever to verify if there is any bio-content or not.

I've just had my rotary injection pump rebuilt because biofuel had gummed the pistons so badly they needed to be punched out. The tolerances in the design mean it can and will happen again if it's not run constantly - and frankly, the tractor gets used when it's needed - they often sit around for months at a time.

Anyone else that's literally stuck with biofuel - what have you been using or would you suggest to keep things working as they should?

I am in souther KS and have never heard of such a push and honestly would not have any clue how or where to find such a thing.

 

[virto]

What the OP's referring to is the 'diesel bug', bacteria that are often found in modern diesel that (when left sitting) feast on the hydrocarbons in diesel and produce a slimy, tar-like sludge that wreaks having with all aspects of the diesel system. Not strictly a problem with the biodiesel itself, which burns just fine if fresh and regularly filled. It's rather that the old-school diesels with higher sulphur content and less water-absorbing ability didn't allow the bacteria to flourish nearly as readily. It was always a problem for marine diesels and others in wet/humid environments, it's now just more of a problem for more conventional environments.

Snake oil additives like the Lucas/Standadyne won't do anything to help prevent it - you need a biocide. The most popular is 'Biobor JF', which has been available for decades at marinas, but which you now see more and more at places like TSC and tractor dealerships, because this problem is getting more and more common. If anyone hasn't seen this problem, they're probably quite lucky and it's only a matter of time - especially if you have diesels that sit for extended periods. I've had this problem in a few tractors now, and it's one holy heck of a nightmare to clean out the gunk that bacteria leaves behind. Luckily it hadn't made its way to the injection pump on any of mine. It usually starts in the tank where there's more air and water presence, and works its way through the fuel system from there.

If it's a regularly-used tractor or diesel storage tank that gets filled frequently, you probably don't have to worry about anything. But if you have diesel in a tractor or storage tank that sits for a few months, adding a dose of biocide is becoming increasingly necessary.

The stuff is expensive but sounds like it's been doing the job a long, long time. I'll look to scoop some up and have it on-hand.

Thanks for the input!