Urethane, Base / Clear? or......? jd4020

[Anonymous-0]

Hey guys,

I just read back through the posts a bit to get some education. Trouble is I don't have much time here and gotta go to work. So I will ask. I have a jd 4020. I also have a 93 jd 790 compact.

The 790 looks like it is more on the blue side of green where 68 4020 looks like it is on the yellow side of green. What is best way to find the right green for each machine?

I have painted base clear before. Is was 15 years ago now. I also have done no clear coat paints. I am leaning towards the non clear coat on the 4020. I painted my old 76 dodge van in a non clear coat 16 years ago and it still looks good today and it has been outside every day of its life. (Think it was a 1994 corvette factory color) Trouble is I cant remember what I painted it with.

I have some mid temp 8022s reducer left over that I remember I used frequently. Friend had a body shop and let me use and combine leftover colors....for alum boats and trucks and etc. My van still looks great.
An 87 honda accord base / clear...I have some chromacoat base and some stuff called BCD 5531 base reducer uc8900 urethane clear and ucat5 urethane catalyst. However after 10 years this stuff is not looking as good as the non clear coat van.

I base / clear coated an 87 honda crotch rocket and it still looks great...dupont paint but again cant remember what it was.

So the point of all this is what paint should I use on the 4020? Not looking for show room. It is a working tractor. But the base coat clear coat on other 4020s I have seen just doesnt look right and often rather silly if the body work isn't perfect. My body work will be pretty good. Good enough for a base clear but not really interested in the overly glossy look. Want hard, durable paint. Most everything will be sandblasted and mp170 primered. There is an area at the dual remoted where hydro fluid is a problem but it loks like that can be cleaned up pretty well with something called dx330.

Now I will be painting outside. And in the days of the friends shop...he never ever wore even a respirator and drank heavy. I wore a respirator but it apparently wasn't a match for hardners. I had very little contact. I did not paint more than 5 projects. But it sounds like that is about all it takes to do a guy in nowdays. In those days positive airflow wasn't an issue.

Sorry for the long post but any tips, advice and mostly paint product to use will be greatly appreciated.

John

 

[Anonymous-0]

I should mention that I am not freaky about matching to an original factory color. I would prefer to get a color closer to the blue side of green rather than the yellow side. I don't care for the yellowish look. I also am thinking my van was an enamael with hardner. The motorcycle and the honda accord were both urethanes. A 79 cutlass supreme that also turned out nice for me was a non clear coat too.

 

[CNKS]

You have had much more experience painting than I have. The respirator thing has been repeated here over and over, don't use hardener without supplied air, don't really care if people say you don't need one, it will get them someday. Since you are an experienced painter, and are using 170, and don't want the worlds best finish put Omni MTK (acrylic urethane) over it and you will get the second best finish, for the money. Best to use the MP 182 surfacer over the 170 on the sheet metal -- you know the rest.

 

[CNKS]

Ask on the JD board about the colors, or there are probably a couple of thousand posts in the archives. Simply match the JD code to PPG or whatever you use. The JD dealer paint is alkyd enamel, far as I know -- read what it says on the can to confirm.

 

[Rod (NH)]

Hi,

The 8022S is a DuPont Centari (acrylic enamel) reducer. If you recall using that reducer on your van, then the paint was very likely Centari. That's a top notch acrylic enamel (single stage). If you are completely satisfied with that, then go ahead and use it. If you do, I recommend using it with the ultra performance pak field mix. There are now three different field mixes for Centari; a standard non-iso, unhardened mix called Ultra 1K pak acrylic enamel, a conventional hardened acrylic enamel using 793S hardener (iso) and the Utra Performance Pak (iso) classed as an acrylic urethane.

I'll agree with CNKS about the PPG OMNI MTK acrylic urethane. I think it provides the best performance for the buck in a single stage paint, even being less costly than Centari. But you can't go wrong with the Centari either. It's very easy to apply, covers excellent, plus it will go over the MP170 epoxy fine, even though it is in a different product line from a different manufacturer.

As far as the exact shade goes, I can't help because I am not familiar with the JD colors or the available codes. The best I can advise is to purchase small quantities of several promising codes and verify your preference before spending much. For some PPG codes, see <a href="http://www.worldpath.net/~thompson/misc/PPG%20Tractor%20Colors.htm">here</a>. For some DuPont codes, see <a href="http://www.myimagehosting.com/pic.php?u=3277DmDDV&i=33785">here</a>.

Unless you are using a metallic color, I see no compelling reason to go with a two stage base/clear system unless you want to. Since you have experience spraying both systems, it's your personal preference which you use. PPG OMNI makes a companion basecoat for two stage systems in the same colors as the MTK. Chromabase is the premium basecoat in DuPont. For something in DuPont, but more in line with the cost of the OMNI products, look into DuPont's NASON line. They have both single and two stage products in that line.

As CNKS indicates, respiratory safety dictates supplied-air equipment when using hardeners containing isocyanates - even when painting outside. Some disagree with that. But it's their responsibility for a personal decision to ignore the fine print from the manufacturers and regulatory safety agencies. I've been personally affected by isos twice in the distant past w/o supplied-air and decided that there would never be a third time. And there hasn't been in about 30 years of using hardeners w/supplied-air on DIY projects, mostly outside.

Rod

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks for the great info and refresher guys. I do alot airless spraying on exteriors but haven't used a cup gun for at least 10 years. The details on the centari and omni as well as the mp 170 / activator info much apreciated. Helps to have an idea of what you want before you walk into the paint jobber. Painting tractor will be really quit easy because there is nothing the size of a billboard Like the sides of a 76 dodge van or the hood roof trunk on a 77 cutlass supreme :] The 79 cutlass supreme was much smaller. Wet edge and over lap dry haze wont be any issue.

The info on the pak systems also appreciated...I can mull that over a bit before I decide as well. I know for sure it wont be a 2 step.

Thanks again to Rod and CKNS

 

[Anonymous-0]

Rod,

One more thing...What are the chances that the Centari on the van had hardner in it. It would have been 15 years ago. I know it took a while to cure...probably greater than 60 days and during that time it was a bit soft...mared by brush easily but it has become very hard.

 

[Rod (NH)]

Sure sounds like something was basically wrong - or the paint wasn't Centari. I've used Centari with the 793S hardener years ago that I could compound after only a few days. I also doubt it was any lack of hardener that caused such a slow dry either. I have some 15+ year-old Centari, so I applied a single color coat (by brush) to a piece of glass this morning as a quick check. It was right from the can - not thinned and no hardener. The film was dry to the touch in 2 hours at 72F. It would not fingerprint with moderate finger pressure. If I had applied 2 or 3 coats, it would have taken a little longer but the time would definitely [b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]not[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0] be measured in days. I can't say that I have ever used a paint that wasn't dry enough for reasonable handling after 24 hours. A full cure w/o hardener would take 30+ days depending on temperature but as long as the film is not physically abused, there should be no problem with it being as "soft", even after a single day, as you are indicating it was after many days . <a href="http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/reference/troubleshooting_guide/soft_film/index.cfm">Here's</a> some possible reasons for excessive slow-dry of automotive paint. Certainly if you used an incorrect reducer (e.g. using the 8022S in an alkyd enamel like the old DuPont Dulux) could contribute to the problem. Unless you are sure that you used the 8022S strictly as recommended by DuPont, all bets are off as to the cause of your slow dry. The mixing and matching of ingredients that are not appropriate, such as using an acrylic enamel reducer in an alkyd enamel or vice-versa, or the mixing of ingredients from different brands (and even lines within the same brand) can be a source of unspecified problems.

As long as you follow the manufacturer's specific written instructions for mixing and application, you should have no problem at all with such a slow dry as you indicate - with any paint. Now if you try and use an acrylic urethane color w/o adding the hardener, then yes, you are in for a very long drying process. But that's caused by not following the instructions since the use of a hardener in acrylic urethane is [b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]not[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0] optional like it is for most acrylic or alkyd enamels. The only other possibility that I can think of for an excessive dry time is a product defect - e.g. an improper mix at the jobber. That's unlikely but possible.

That all being said, I don't know of any way you can determine for sure if your van was painted with Centari or if it was, if a hardener was used in it.

I also think you will find painting a tractor is significantly different than painting a car or van. With a tractor there is far more out-of-position painting with areas difficult to access properly - for example, the undercarriage areas. Furthermore, assuming one wants complete coverage, it's much more time consuming as there are a multitude of components whose backside is inaccessible without complete disassembly and painting of individual parts. Anyone can "just throw paint" at a fully assembled tractor and it will look good at some distance. But a reasonably close inspection will reveal a lack of coverage that would be embarrasing to a lot and totally unacceptable to many. I'd much rather paint a car or a van. That's a lot faster and much easier, absent major rust-through repair.

Rod

 

[Anonymous-0]

Rod,

I found my old can used on the van. It was centari. Also, Soft was meant in a relative way. It was by no means soft to the touch...more in effect it took a while to cure out to the really hard stage. That is all that I seem to remember. I recall driving past a hedge at a graduation and the hedge left some tails on the paint....probably 25 days after painting. Now I am able to drive that thing almost through thorns and it wont show a mark.

As far as the difficulty in painting a tractor, you make a good point. Painted radiator hoses and belts and alternators and starters and etc do look poor. The angles will be tricky...and I dont want to pour the paint on a tractor. So I have quite a bit of disassembly. But....trying to have a mirror car hood finish uniformly over an entire large surface I personally had difficulty with.

 

[Johnsdeere]

Well I would do the hood and side panels in BC/CC, faster drying, less dirt and bugs and easier to repair, buff etc. The rest of it I would do in single stange in urethane or better yet polyurethane.

 

[Johnsdeere]

For what its worth any of the 2k primers. sealers, single stage with hardners, clear coats, and base coats, etc, require a fresh air system for the same reasons as listed above. You will find that 98% of all body shops use a disposable respirator for all their painting. Im not saying you dont need a fresh air system. But what I am saying is they are required for libility reasons they have to say that. You are also told that you need to wear rubber gloves, and a full paint suit. Dont forget these also. For what its worth spraying out side is much safer, but you may not get the best results with wind and dirt.