used or rebuilt pump

[Don Henry]

Before i reach out and buy a new hydraulic pump I would like to see if i can find a used or rebuilt pump.

My pump is a Webster 1962 23 gpm, 3000psi SAE "B" flange w/ .625 keyed shaft. Needed Webster or retrofit 23-25gpm 3000psi SAE "B" flange .625 keyed shaft

 

[Jiles]

(quoted from post at 20:25:38 03/22/10) Before i reach out and buy a new hydraulic pump I would like to see if i can find a used or rebuilt pump.

My pump is a Webster 1962 23 gpm, 3000psi SAE "B" flange w/ .625 keyed shaft. Needed Webster or retrofit 23-25gpm 3000psi SAE "B" flange .625 keyed shaft

If the new pump is made in Communist China, there is no dought that I would go for a rebuilt one---maby it will not be China junk.

 

[JDemaris]

"23 GPM" has no meaning unless it's stated at a certain RPM. If it's 23 GPM at 2400 RPM, then it's a 2.1 to 2.4 cubic inch per rev pump. There IS no way to rebuild. Websters are still made new down south. You can buy a new one with the SAE-B two-bolt mount for $200.

 

[Don Henry]

Yes Mr JDEMaris you are correct the gpm is directly related to the rpm. I thank you for the suggestion that websters are still made, if you happen to know the place I would certianly appr. it. I did find a rebuild manufacture in Ga. but he wanted $700.00.
The reason for useing this forum is to hopefully find people in the know like you.

Thanks, I await your reply or direction

 

[JDemaris]

There is no way to rebuild the pump. They can be patched up and resealed if not worn too bad, but otherwise - there is NO fix.

Something about the specs you mention don't seem to make sense. What machine is it for?

The bigger the pump, the more horsepower it takes to run it at max. rate. So, the bigger the pump, the bigger the shaft has to be to handle the torque. Same with the SAE mount. SAE-A is usually up to 1.5 cubic inches, and SAE-B for bigger. A pump called "23 GPM" should have at a minimum, a 3/4" shaft and more likely a 7/8" shaft along with a SAE-B two- bolt mount. A pump with a 5/8" shaft is usually a SAE-A mount and smaller then 1.5 cubic inches.

But, a pump can be called almost anything if the GPM is stated with some super-high speed. A 13 GPM pump at normal engine speed can be stated as a 26 GPM if that speed is doubled (for marketing purposes).

A tractor company will usually state max. GPM at the max speed your engine can run. Often that is 2400 RPM.

For example: A 1.5 cubic-inch-per-revolution pump with a 5/8" shaft is rated 12 GPM at 2000 RPM, and 22 GPM at 3600 RPM. Obviously the 22 GPM rating is meaningless since a tractor engine does not run at 3600 RPM. This type of pump is usually a SAE-A mount, not SAE-B, and is often used on bulldozers (not loaders the need more oil flow). You can buy new for $100 at Surplus Center.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7794-B&catname=hydraulic

Most HD loaders and backhoes use pumps that are rated around 23 GPM at max. engine speed. That comes to 2 to 2.4 cubic-inches-per-rev.

Most LD loaders or dozers (with no aux. hydraulics) use pumps rated around 13 GPM at max. engine speed. Around 1.5 to 1.8 cubic inches.

I just bought two new Webster pumps that are 2.3 cubic inches. SAE-B two-bolt mount and 7/8" shaft. $200 each brand new. They fit my following loader-backhoes or crawler loaders: Case 580CK loader/hoe, Ford 4000 Industrial loader/hoe, Deere 1010 crawler/loader and IH 3414 loader/hoe. WS-106:

http://hydraulicpumpstore.com/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&keyword=SAE%202-Bolt%20B&search_in_description=1&categories_id=68&inc_subcat=1&sort=20a&page=8

Keep in mind that if your pump is a Webster, it will have a footprint similar to a Cessna and probably not much else. So, if you want a pump with the same dimensions and ports in the same places, you need a Webster or Cessna.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I have recently rebuild a pump on my 350 deere. It had blown a seal and the bushings were worn. I cut the old bushings out and made new ones and put the pump back together with a new seal kit. So far I have about 20 hours on the rebuild and no problems.
Cory

 

[JDemaris]

I'd call that a "repair", not a "rebuild." What you did will get you more use out of it if done right, but did not restore it to "good as new" condition. Very likely is will not sustain the 2500 or 3000 PSI it was originally designed to handle.

When those Cessna pumps wear, the shafts, bushings, center-housings all wear and also the face of the gears get scored. It is the face of the gears against the bronze thrust plate that do the high-pressure oil-sealing. When they get scored, oil gets past and then pushes out the external low-pressure shaft seal on the outside. It will usually happen during pressure spikes. The pump when in good shape is supposed to handle 2500 PSI. It's very likely it will not anymore, depending on how much wear.

If not worn bad, and a new bronze thrust plate and spider gasket gets installed, some will work fine.

There is no cost-effective way to "rebuild" the aluminum Cessna or Webster-Electric gear pumps.
To do so, you'd need a new center housing, new bushings, so way of repairing wear on the shaft (where they ride in the bushings) and some way of restoring the polished gear-faces.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I did replace the thrust plate on mine. My gears were in good shape the shafts were the only bad wear. I figured if I get 50 to 100 hours out of it and can still lift the blade it was worth it. But I only spent about $50 with the parts and bushing material if I had to pay a machine shop I would have went with a new one too.
Cory

 

[JDemaris]

Sounds like your's was one of those worth fixing. My point is that many are not and there is no way to reclaim/rebuild them once they get worn. Patch-up kit comes with new seals, spider-gasket and bronze thrust plate which can fix many. But, for some pumps, just that kit is $115 from Deere which is rediculous. And, the kit won't fix a highly worn pump.

I've got four brand new 28 GPM rated pumps from Deere 450B crawlers. All with broken center-housings. I'd love to fix them but the new/replacement center-housings haven't been available for 20 years. These pumps are brand new with NO useage. What a shame. We had a customer that had a problem with a stuck relief valve. He bought four new pumps and blew each one up instantly, until we found the problem. That's why I've got the four that are new, with cracked center-housings. Deere sells the pumps now for $1,350 (AT38800 ). Seal kit is $115 (AT39028). I just bought a brand new equivalent pump from Webster for $200 new. Can't beat that. I suspect that even if Deere DID have a new center-housing availble, it wouldn't be worth the cost.