(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Water softner question(s)

Yesterday's Tractor Forums
G

Gun guru

Well-known Member
I need to be educated on water softners.
A guy at a water softner place told me that my water has 5 grains of hardness. (he couldnt tell me exactly what that means other then his little test kit says so) I do know that in a week I will have some rust on the shower wall. (this is 5 showers per day.)
But a 40,000 grain softner is $ 1,600 from this guy. (OUCH)! This is a higher end model I think, with a longer warranty.
A rebuilt one of this brand is $950.
I cant justify a $ 1,600 water softner.
I can get a 40,000 grain from Home depot for $600 and this is a GE brand.
Does anyone here have a GE water softner? If you do is it trouble free? Does it leak? How long have you had it?
Fill me in on what is a good brand.
I know that some of the GE brands dont have a brine tank it is all self contained.
 
We have a Whirlpool model from Lowes. Best money I ever spent. It is a self contained unit like the one you are talking about. 5 grins is not that hard, mine was 27. We went thru a coffee pot every three months and i had to soak the shower heads and faucet aerators in vinegar about once a month.
Softener was an instant cure.
 
well, I drill water wells full time, but I stay away from water treatment. I can tell you this much, softners are for taking HARDNES out of water Not IRON. that being said they will help take out some iron stains, But that's not what they are made to do. you also need to have your water tested for iron, then treat it for iron. also shop around after you have it tested. water treatement salesmen are like snake oil salesmen round here. I'm thinking that a 40,000 grain softner is a lot of softner for 5 grains of hardness.
 
Family of five? Get the largest WaterBoss model, but do not buy the "City" model as that does not remove iron like the other models do. The WaterBoss is the easiest to load salt into; The one in our old house is 14 years old and still works fine. I installed a new one in our new house last fall.
 
Does any one here know anything about "Easy Water"? They advertise that it's obsolete to use salt to soften water, claiming their system works without salt. If that's true why don't you hear about it other than their ads?
 
you need to have your water tested for hardness. how often do you replace your water heater? do you have calcium deposits?
softener only removes calcium and adds salt to your system so if you have high blood pressure you should think about it.
Yes water softeners make clothes wash easier but do you need this when you may need a rust remover only.
 
I have had the GE brand water softener from Home Depot for a little over three years. Family of six in household it uses about two bags of salt a month. Have not had any problems yet.
 
Lots of softner out there that don't use salt. not a new thing, been round for 10 years or longer, nor is salt obsolete.
 
(quoted from post at 21:32:13 06/21/11) I need to be educated on water softners.
A guy at a water softner place told me that my water has 5 grains of hardness. (he couldnt tell me exactly what that means other then his little test kit says so) I do know that in a week I will have some rust on the shower wall. (this is 5 showers per day.)
But a 40,000 grain softner is $ 1,600 from this guy. (OUCH)! This is a higher end model I think, with a longer warranty.
A rebuilt one of this brand is $950.
I cant justify a $ 1,600 water softner.
I can get a 40,000 grain from Home depot for $600 and this is a GE brand.
Does anyone here have a GE water softner? If you do is it trouble free? Does it leak? How long have you had it?
Fill me in on what is a good brand.
I know that some of the GE brands dont have a brine tank it is all self

contained.
Click to expand...

Do not confuse a water softener with ion exchange treatment. Hardness is only one parameter. You need to send a sample to a lab for a 25 parameter test. Cost should be 100.00 or so.

When you have the results then consult a treatment retailer. I would guess you have manganese and iron, manganese stains a little on the black side. Also often iron stains are confused with tanins. If your supply is influenced by ground water you more than than likely have tannins.

Iron, manganese,tannins are treated with ion exchange. The equipment is exactly the same as a water softener but the media is a resin designed for the condition you have.

Get an independent test, this will give you the proper ammunition.

Good luck


Jim
 
As others have mentioned, 5 grains is not very hard but a softener does not work very well for iron. You can get small amounts with the rust remover salt, but if you are staining that quick yours might be higher. Take a sample yourself and send it into a test lab, cost should be about $20, but might be a touch higher. If your iron is above 3-5 mg/L you probably want to be looking at some form of iron filter system. Also need to know the type of iron (organic, bacterial, etc.) since treatment varies for each.

Good Luck,

Kirk
 
Say what ? Read up on ion exchange. Calcium and magnesium ions are replaced with sodium ions. The harder the water, the bigger the exchange.

Not a problem with most people, but some with very sensitive diet requirements may want to ask the doc first.
 
I just replaced my water heater. It was the original built in with the house, 11 years. I changed it out with no problems, 50 gallon power vent.
 
Get a complete water test. Results should include: iron, hardness, lead, calcium, coliform,nitrates, etc.

Then contact a softener company and ask them what they recommend for a softener or iron remover. I went with Lancaster Pumps and went with what they recommended for a system. Been using it 6 years now with only one issue. My system does have a separate brine tank, which holds about 300 pounds of salt. The control head is digital and I can choose how long I want to go between regenerations (when the brine cleans out the tank resin).

Installing the system itself isn't very difficult for a home owner to do themselves, if you can solder. I use Morton System Saver II salt, which is the cheapest I can find. And no the water doesn't taste salty.

bob
 
I installed my own from Ohio Pure Water. The exact same unit as the local water softener guy (Fleck demand control), but half the price. Of course there was "some assembly required", and if anything goes wrong yours truly gets to fix it. But it's been a great unit.

If you decide to DIY, two things: First, be sure and get a demand control. You'll save a lot of salt. Second, those little resin beads are nearly impossible to clean up if you spill them on your basement floor, which is bound to happen.

As for the GE water softeners, as well as the Sears and various other house brands (I think the same company makes them all), you get what you pay for. You'll notice the resin tank is much smaller than the tank on a Fleck unit. The smaller tank is more compact, but it will become iron-bound sooner. The thing I've noticed about my Fleck is it needs almost no maintenance. Once a year I clean out the venturi, and it's never clogged. My previous Sears softener required the venturi to be cleaned every two or three months, otherwise it would clog up and quit working.
Ohio Pure Water
 
I put in a Waterboss 15 years ago, about $500 then, and not much more now. Still working fine.
 
jrh009 has it right. Have your water tested for as many parameters as you can. We had a potassium permanganate (also known as a greensand) iron removal filter and a softener but we still had some staining. Don't get me wrong, both units were absolutely necessary as the water is very hard, has lots of iron and a terrible smell from manganese. The combination cleaned things up pretty well considering but maintenance seemed to be non stop.
Got fed up with all the maintenance and called a professional to come and see what they could do about it.
Well it took some time and quite a bit of testing but they found tannins in the water which was the cause of the staining we were seeing. The iron filter was doing it's job but it is not designed to remove tannins. So we ended up with a filter which removes iron and softens the water. It's something a bit more modern and definitely safer than the old greensand filter as it only uses salt. It also takes some of the brine and electrically converts it to chlorine to sanitize the system. We also had a tannin filter installed after the iron remover/softener.
They also added a large canister type sediment filter as there was a lot of particulate matter which would foul the bed of the.

One thing is for sure, no two wells are going to be the same and there is a LOT to water chemistry. To get the right treatment you need to know EVERYTHING that is in the water. Something you don't know is there can and does affect the operation of your filters/softeners etc. You can't just throw a softener in and think it will take care of everything. A softener can remove a certain amount of iron but over that amount the resin bed will get fouled and will not work properly.

Now that it is all figured out (the tech. that helped us was great, didn't charge us an arm and a leg and did not give up) our water has been absolutely terrific! For a comparison we have untreated water running to the barn from the same well. Looks clear when it's first run but after about 5 minutes you can't see to the bottom of the bucket because of all the iron and rust that appears. It also stinks to high heaven!
 
If it's not a Kinetico it's not a water softener. You will pay more up front but it will last a life time. I think I paid $1,200.00 for mine in 1977 but it's still running great in 2011. That's 34 years. I can remember maybe two service calls and one turned out to be a leaking solder joint in a pipe to the softener.
 
You need to determine what type of iron you have! Water softeners will remove some types and the others need to be oxidized with birm,greensand, or a chemical feed pump feeding chlorine into the water. 5 grain water is not that hard in the scheme of things. The Austin TX area can be as high as 120-30 grains and is like rocks coming out of the faucet.

Research service after the sale. GE is weak in the Houston TX area. You can't get any one to work on them. They are considered a diposable unit.

ECO water systems out of Woodbury MN is the largest manufacturer of water treatment equipment. They manufacture and label: Eco,kenmore, whirlpool,Nothstar, rayne, GE, Morton and I'm sure a few more I forgot.

They're all decent machines depending on who can and will service them in you're area. I have 30+ years working on them and have personally installed around 4000 units and overseen the installation of 10-12000 units. I personally like the Northstar brand. It's marketed to plumbers and is built to last along time. When I sold and installed a machine I took responsibility for it and didn't want any trouble with it. ECO/ Northstar listened and built a good machine. They incorporated a few features such as a flow meter that we used in leak detection. It also would tell me the clients average daily water usage.

I suspect you really want iron removal and not soft water.
 
To all:
Thanks for the info and comments.
I will likely get a softner from HD or Lowes for $500 or so bucks.
I know my water is not that hard cause it doesnt smell much without the softner. I am not going to pay $100 to get the water tested for all sorts of minerals, contaminants and what not. My family and I dont drink the water anyway. My wife has been complaining that the water leaves minerals in her hair....(uuuhhhh, whatever) and I need a new softner.
 
The Oakland County health department will test your water for bacteria for a small fee. The state (MI) will test it for arsenic. You can get test kits for both at the county health department.
 
(quoted from post at 04:32:47 06/22/11) To all:
Thanks for the info and comments.
I will likely get a softner from HD or Lowes for $500 or so bucks.
I know my water is not that hard cause it doesnt smell much without the softner. I am not going to pay $100 to get the water tested for all sorts of minerals, contaminants and what not. My family and I dont drink the water anyway. My wife has been complaining that the water leaves minerals in her hair....(uuuhhhh, whatever) and I need a new softner.
Click to expand...

I think you are missing the point. If you are having problems now with staining you need something other than a softener. A softener may work for awhile but the bed will get fouled quickly and you will be out the cost of the new softener. You likely won't have to pay $100 for a good water test, often HD or Lowes or Menards will test for the basics for you for free right in the store.
 
Yes I know that, but bacteria and arsenic arent the problem, its the mineral and rust. I actually have good water without the softner, it just needs to not stain the dishwasher/toilets/showers with rust.
I had my water tested when I built the house 10 years ago. (no problems with arsenic or bacteria)
 
Ditto what Inno said. Get a simple test (should not cost anywhere near $100), softener only goes so far and sounds like you need another approach.

Not a treatment specialist, but fought this battle on our place already.

Good Luck,

Kirk
 
(quoted from post at 10:50:32 06/22/11) Yes I know that, but bacteria and arsenic arent the problem, its the mineral and rust. I actually have good water without the softner, it just needs to not stain the dishwasher/toilets/showers with rust.
I had my water tested when I built the house 10 years ago. (no problems with arsenic or bacteria)
Click to expand...

A softener will NOT remove a lot of iron. You WILL have problems if you opt to put in a new softener. It will work for awhile but it won't last long.
At the very least, have your hardness and iron levels tested.
 
I have been fighting rust in the water through my last two houses. WATER SOFTENERS DO NOT REMOVE RUST VERY EFFECTIVELY. The iron in the water quickly gunks up the softener bed and the softener quits functioning. Most softener vendors don't have any other choices, so they will sell you a softener.

At first I had a Water Softener left from the previous occupant. It did not work very long. When they opened it up it was a mess of brown goo inside.

Switched to a Greensand filter with a Potasium Permanganate (purple crystals) backwash. It worked better, but still gooped up. Occcasionally we would get some permanganate in the drinking water and my skin would peal. This was not my favorite system. We used this for several years.

Nexted we switched to a oxidizer using a compressor and sand filter. This worked great and required no chemicals. It was a little funny listening to the compressor cycle on and off, but it did its job. The filter had to backwash with water regularly, but it did not seem to goop up so bad.

Built a house and moved. New house has iron problems. Added a Rainsoft system with an oxidizer and sand filter. The oxidizer uses water flow to charge up pressure. No compressor. It works great and has been going for 6 years now. I paid $3200, but the guy I bought it from is high. I think his installation of anything cost $3200. You most likely could do better.

Your house, your money, your water. I am just trying to let you know what I learned. Send me an email if you want to discuss further.

HTH

Cliff(VA)
 
Before you spend a dime get the water tested, this is a tricky science as others have pointed out. Minimum 25 parameters including UV transmittance if you are going to use UV.

I am a Professional Engineer, but still use sub consultants for water treatment. Water softeners are ion exchangers, salt is broken down to charge the resin, resins are either cation or anion, or dual bed and you must know what elements you are treating before the resin is specified and loaded into the treatment unit, otherwise you may waste money, or as others mentioned raise the level of sodium in your water to the point where your health professionals would be concerned.

My wife can not tolerate sodium and if this is your case you may require reverse osmosis at the drinking source. Some of the suppliers will do the testing for free. We use independent certified labs which can be pricey but we need third party certification where you can do what you feel is best for yourself.

Good luck, wish you the best.

Jim
 
Sodium is not salt. Sodium chloride is salt. Check Marlo"s website in Racine, WI. They do free water tests and have great professional products and excellent advise for your exact needs. All wells are differant (even next door neighbors) plus wells sometimes change over time. Good luck.
 
gun guru, Check the 'T' inlet mine was steel caused a lot of rust.
Changed to brass about 12 years ago no rust also changed the tank at the same time.
I do the Javex thing once a year because of all the open gravel pits the Gov. are licensing around me now.
We do have hard water (lime stone) but no rust or stink.

I've been told a water softener is hard on the concrete septic tank.
 
Most softeners have basically the same components, the $1600 is mostly for name! We have mildly hard water, don't know the grains, but a fair amount of iron, and a softener does just fine.
 
(quoted from post at 07:00:35 06/27/11) Most softeners have basically the same components, the $1600 is mostly for name! We have mildly hard water, don't know the grains, but a fair amount of iron, and a softener does just fine.
Click to expand...

Russ, just how much is a "fair amount" of iron?
Yes, a softener is capable of removing SOME iron.

This is from an informational website........and I quote.

"A standard water softener contain ion exchange resin that will allow it to remove Iron if the the level is less than 4 p.p.m. A special fine mesh resin softener contains smaller bead sizes which give Iron more places to stick to. Fine mesh Water Softeners can remove dissolved Iron up to 10 p.p.m. As the resin is regenerated the Iron is flushed off the surface of the resin and sent to the drain. The addition of an inexpensive resin cleaner will assure more complete Iron removal and will give you extended life of the resin beads. Generally staining can be seen with iron levels as low as 0.25 p.p.m. So there is a good chance that if you have Iron staining problems, a water softener might just fixed the problem and give you soft water all with one device. If you Iron level is higher then you may need to purchase an Iron filter for levels above 5 p.p.m."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Yesterday's Tractor Forums
Buy Tractor Parts Here Buy Tractor Manuals Here

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2025 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top