WC tire-rim question

[tomtirediron]

Morning it's 15 deg. here in Northern MN with light snow. Perfect time to think about repair and restore of 1941 Allis-Chalmers WC (ser. WC111478). We have one near new 14.9-24 Firestone on one side. The other has absolute junk, not sure of the size. BOTH rims are shot.
My Dad was quoted a price for new rims of 100$/side. Is this a decent price? Is 14.9-24 a workable size for this tractor? Finally, do you guys have any tips-tricks for welding the old centers into the new rims? Thanks all for your input.

 

[old]

For new rims that is a good price. That said I have never seen a 24 inch tire on a WC but have seen 28 inch ones and about 11.2X28 is the correct size give or take a size

 

[JMS/.MN]

Old size 13-24, whioh is the same as your 14.9, was used on unstyled tractors, up to sn 74330, when the styled came out in 1938. Also had narrower ones in 24 inch. Dad"s "39 WC, sn 77717, did have the 13-24. But standard for the styled ones, like yours, was 11-28. Might have been on a 10 inch rim. My original parts book shows various wheels available, steel and rubber.

 

[JMS/.MN]

Just noticed your comment about welding old centers....you must have spoke wheels- original would be solid cast centers, which attach to the rims with cast washer and bolts.

 

[ACEd]

Early Unstyled WC prior to s/n WC-81756 had 24 inch wheels most commonly with 14.9-24 (originally 11.25-24 which became 13-24 and eventually 14.9-24). These were one piece wheels - early were spoked, later after WC-59636 were solid.

Later WC including all the Styled WCs would most likely have had 28 inch wheels - though there was a 36 inch option. Using current size designations, best choices would be 12.4-28 or 13.6-28. These wheels were 2 piece with cast centers and separate rims - but the centers are fairly common and rims should be available. I think the later centers will interchange - they are all 6-bolt attachment to hubs.

As a point of interest, the typical diameter of a 14.9-24 is 49.7 inches while a 12.4-28 is 49.7 and a 13.6-28 is 51.6 inches. Widths will be dependent on rim width.

 

[LenND]

My Dads WC -new in 1946- came from factory with 11 x 28 Goodrich tires. When he replced them years later he put on 12 x 28s. WC had six hole hubs then the WDs came with eight hole hubs and I think first tractor with spinouts.

 

[Anonymous-0]

11.2x28 is NOT THE CORRECT SIZE 11.25x28 is the correct size or 14.9x28 inmodernsize

 

[old]

Have yet to see any 11.25x28 tires on any thing but I have a good number of 11.2X28s laying around the place

 

[old]

Also the old tire sizes never had a point to them I.E. they had 11X28 12X28 etc but none had the 11. any thing till the new tire sizes came out then even the 11 did not go to the 14.9X28 I have all of those sizes here at my place and believe me an 11 or 11.2 next to a 14.9 looks like a bike tire to the 14.9 I have on my D-17 and the 11.2 that I have laying next to the fence

 

[JMS/.MN]

Some further info from the parts book: From sn 59636 to 81756, the rim was 11.25x24, with a pressed steel center riveted to the rim. That would explain why Dad"s WC had 24 inch, non-spoked wheels. That wheel was also used on the WF sn 204-1903, and all industrial WF tractors. Previous spoked wheel had 11.25x24 rim. Steel wheels were 40 inch dia, with extensions available. Also shows a 2 inch by 40 wheel with large spade lugs. Other tire options were 9x28, 7.50x36, and 9.00x36. 11x28 was standard for WC 81757 and up, WF 1904 and up.

 

[massey 333]

Need to get your facts straight Old.There were a lot of tires made in the 30s and 40s,XX.XX-XX sizes.The XX-XX sizing didn't really come about until W.W.2 time.

 

[ACEd]

FYI - tire size was 11.25-24 - standard rims were more likely 8x24. Wider wheels became normal later in the late 40's / early 50's.

 

[JMS/.MN]

You are right- I should have used the terminology in the book, where they talk about an "air tire", size 11.25x24. The illustration shows rim size, which is narrower, without any inch designation. My 1937 WC has 13x24 tires, but the rim is about 9 inches wide. The higher, narrower wheels, using 7.50 and 9.00 tires with cast centers show different part numbers than the 28 inch wheels with cast centers.

 

[JMS/.MN]

No, you"re not right about wider 28 inch tires in the late 40s-early 50s on the WC. WC production stopped in the Spring of 1948, and at sn 81757, in 1939...they went to the 11x28 as standard. They stayed that way through WC production, and the first WD tractors, in 1948, used the 11x28 as a standard. Standard on the WD45, 1953, was a 12x28 rear tire.

 

[ACEd]

OK - read my statement more carefully before you incorrectly state it is wrong - you make me do my research and here it is from various Goodrich, Firestone, & Goodyear Tire catalogs and data books I have dating from 1936 to mid 60's.

Early WC (from 1937 Firestone book and 1938 Goodrich) would have had 11.25-24 on 8 inch wide rims. Firestone 1937 also lists 9.00-28 but as option (asterisked as not from manufacturer - remember a lot of tractors were sold on steel wheels and Firestone was a big conversion seller making their own recommendations as to size).

In the tire industry, size designations changed beginning in 1938 from 11.25-24 to new 13-24 and 9.00-28 to 11-28 with an overlap of selling both sizes til at least 1940.

But beginning at same time the Rim manufacturers made some changes to rim lips and went to wider standard rims. A 13-24 would have had a 12 inch or 13 inch wide rim on a new tractor bought after 1940. Also as a point of interest, you can put a modern tire on a pre-1938 rim, but they don't look quite right.

Size designations were changed again about 1955 though there was again an overlap - with some old sizes sold as late as 1960. The new sizes were supposedly based on section width and were supposedly more accurate hence the 14.9-24 designation on a 13 inch rim. Rim width was generally marked on tire as the real section width changes about 1/2 inch for each inch of rim width.

As to WC wheel diameters - see my original post - but an 11-28 would have nominally been on at least a 10 inch wide rim by 1940. And beginning about 1955 the same tire would have been designated 12.4-28 most likely marked for an 11 inch rim.

best, Ed

 

[mark everett]

i have a allis u that i removed the original tyres from and they were marked 13x28 replaces 11.25x28 i still have these tyres on a wc AND THE MODERN SIZE TO A 13X28 IS A 14.9X28 OR ULTRA MODERN 420/85X28 i have been in the tyre industry for 25 years mainly agricultural so i have some idea what i am talking about also have a 1937 wc on round f h spokes that had 11.25x24 tyres on it. hth